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Old 07-28-2015, 08:49 AM   #121
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RE: Switch to MAC:

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Originally Posted by Aymara View Post
You might laugh, but I exactly did that ... I bought a Macbook Pro, though I first planned to wait for the first Win 10 notebook releases. I wanted a new notebook with less loud fans than my old Vaio. But after testing Win 10, I found the alphabetically sorted start menu unacceptable as this mentioned Windows Update enforcement and not to forget ... no more Media Center.

The Macbook was worth it ... dead silent even for microphone recordings and the OSX menus feal more familiar than this ribbon menus MS introduced with Office 2010. But the best is the Retina display ... I never would have guessed, that I will ever hate my monitor at work ... ugly pixel crap ... LOL

When I see how many new Mac magazines for Windows converts are on the German market, I guess there must be many people disappointed by MS.

PS: No, I'm not an Apple fan boy ... I even was an Apple hater before, so it was a hard decision for me to convert, but I didn't regret it.
At first, I was only saying this jokingly to friends at the cafe, but it took on some form of reality over all this latest MS OS business. I can't believe I'm actually considering this.


From anther perspective, let's remember who or what this Microsoft is, their business M.O. and how they treat (mostly ignore) customers. Now, MS has always charged the highest price they could get away with regarding anything they sell. I've never known them to give anything away for free. And usually no big sales or cheap offers, either.

MS wouldn't be giving away their new OS unless they figured that they absolutely had to. I think they are scared out of their minds that they are going to lose practically all market share. Their phone really isn't bad -- a good friend has one. But it captured very little market share. Essentially, it totally bombed. The phone is basically another Blackberry-type failure.

Things are changing fast in the whole computer and phone business. Outside of Apple fans, there seems very little customer loyalty. Not surprising, considering how Microsoft has always treated customers up until just the last few months. All of a sudden, they answer emails, and their website has been improved (albeit only slightly). Too little too late I say.
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Old 07-28-2015, 10:11 AM   #122
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I can't believe I'm actually considering this.
A psychologist would have some fun, if he would know, what thoughts were running through my mind, when I stood there in this shop in front of that Macbook

I guess it took me half an hour to finally buy it.

It was a pretty hard decision, but I didn't regret it ... if I should ever need Windows again, I have Parallels Desktop installed ... running XP just for my good old scanner And just in case I could use bootcamp and run Windows on a separate partition.

So in my case the Macbook was the right choice ... very pricey though
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Old 07-28-2015, 10:19 AM   #123
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And here we go.

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Old 07-28-2015, 10:31 AM   #124
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Installing windows 10 sounds like a lot of work. Idk if it would be worth it. I can't see what benefits I would really get from it. I'm gonna put it on my casual PC, but I don't think I'll put it on my DAW computer. Just too much software to re-install etcetera.

Unless it worked in a simple and painless upgrade, and everything could remain installed how it is now, but I really doubt that would be possible.
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Old 07-28-2015, 10:52 AM   #125
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Windows7 is not poop though, this fact might be a problem for some. (like MS is competing against itself)
One thing I can't add myself as a user would be DX12 but it doesn't sound like 'you would loose sleep over that one?
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Old 07-28-2015, 12:56 PM   #126
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Sound Asleep:
Havent you read anything of this thread?

Win10 is a dead easy install as far as the pre releases have behaved. I see no reason to expect anything different from the "real thing" in a day or so.

This is shaping up to be even easier than Win 8 & 8.1 although there will of course be the usual whining from the hard of thinking once it arrives....

Along with licensing people to own dogs, they should add firearms children and computers.
Not necessarily in that order.
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Old 07-28-2015, 01:10 PM   #127
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Along with licensing people to own dogs, they should add firearms children and computers.
Not necessarily in that order.
I see, so that you can get the children to program the computer at gunpoint if necessary, to make enough money to feed the dog, while solving adoption rates!
Though not necessarily in that order.
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Old 07-28-2015, 01:25 PM   #128
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Installing windows 10 sounds like a lot of work. Idk if it would be worth it. I can't see what benefits I would really get from it.[bold mine] I'm gonna put it on my casual PC, but I don't think I'll put it on my DAW computer. Just too much software to re-install etcetera.

Unless it worked in a simple and painless upgrade, and everything could remain installed how it is now, but I really doubt that would be possible.
I have studied many of the benchmark tests for 8 and then 8.1 (virtually the same as 8). Now, lately I'm checking into performance data on 10, what spotty stuff there is.

Results? The best I've seen shows slightly better performance -- something around 6 to 8% lower CPU, but then we have to consider that all newer PCs are coming with much more powerful chips these days, which basically negates any needed improvement.

The audio? I really can't see that anything is improved over Windows 7. Anyone else have data on audio (or even MIDI) in Windows 8.1 or 10? My understanding is that the jitter is still there in MIDI. I know this disagrees with the links franc included in his post on page 1 here. I need to see more data ... and I'll believe it when I see it for myself.

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Old 07-28-2015, 01:36 PM   #129
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My bigger concern is the up to 2-day horror we'll have to go through if a factory reset on 10 is ever needed. Read down some in this link softsynth and others posted:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/w...362e475?auth=1

Then there is the potential for killing NVidia or possibly other drivers:

http://betanews.com/2015/07/26/windo...your-computer/

Are you running NVidia graphics on your machine? I am.
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Old 07-28-2015, 01:41 PM   #130
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The audio? I really can't see that anything is improved over Windows 7.
The only thing that was improved is hardware acceleration and performance improvements to WASAPI for *onboard / integrated audio chips* (e.g. crappy Realtek audio).
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Old 07-28-2015, 01:48 PM   #131
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WASAPI can be used for non-onboard audio interfaces, too. As you know, Reaper allows it interfacing your audio interface just as well as you can use its ASIO drivers.
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Old 07-28-2015, 02:07 PM   #132
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WASAPI can be used for non-onboard audio interfaces, too. As you know, Reaper allows it interfacing your audio interface just as well as you can use its ASIO drivers.
Really odd, but I've only got WASAPI to work on my machine with Audacity, and not very reliably either. Was disappointed about this, as I heard so much about it before I tried to use it. I thought it was going to be the Windows 'way' of the future.

Anyone here have much success with it?
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Old 07-28-2015, 02:43 PM   #133
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WASAPI works here but I never use it. I use the ASIO drivers for my interface.

I assume there is no sound quality difference between the two. Is that correct?

What is the difference? Do you know ED?
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Old 07-28-2015, 02:48 PM   #134
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I think I will celebrate the launch of Windows 10 by installing Linux on my crappy Acer laptop that came with Windows 8.1...
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Old 07-28-2015, 02:59 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dea-man View Post
WASAPI works here but I never use it. I use the ASIO drivers for my interface.

I assume there is no sound quality difference between the two. Is that correct?

What is the difference? Do you know ED?
Both are APIs to interface the software with the audio interface providing low latency. ASIO is owned by Steinberg, WASAPI is MS. That alone is obvious. And no, there technically aren't any sound differences, unless you run multiple streams from different applications with different sample rates, then they have to be resampled.

What MS is working on as far as audio is concerned is making WASAPI a lot more efficient, but this is not relevant just for desktop, it's relevant for the whole gamut of devices running W10 - from Raspberry Pi 2, to their phones, to Xbox and Hololens. You can't use ASIO on all those devices - that's why updating WASAPI (and the new API for audio interfacing, AudioGraph) is important. Get the low latency for all the devices running Windows - not just desktops/laptops.
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Old 07-28-2015, 03:09 PM   #136
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Both are APIs to interface the software with the audio interface providing low latency. ASIO is owned by Steinberg, WASAPI is MS. That alone is obvious. And no, there technically aren't any sound differences, unless you run multiple streams from different applications with different sample rates, then they have to be resampled.

What MS is working on as far as audio is concerned is making WASAPI a lot more efficient, but this is not relevant just for desktop, it's relevant for the whole gamut of devices running W10 - from Raspberry Pi 2, to their phones, to Xbox and Hololens. You can't use ASIO on all those devices - that's why updating WASAPI (and the new API for audio interfacing, AudioGraph) is important. Get the low latency for all the devices running Windows - not just desktops/laptops.
Thank you.

So, ED are you jumping to 10 right away or have you already?
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Old 07-28-2015, 03:37 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dea-man View Post
WASAPI works here but I never use it. I use the ASIO drivers for my interface.

I assume there is no sound quality difference between the two. Is that correct?

What is the difference? Do you know ED?
Make sure your sound interface provides 24 bit recording/playback with WASAPI. At least one (Focusrite) provides 24 bit with ASIO but only 16 bit with WDM. (Page 12 Scarlett 18i20 User Guide. No mention of other Windows sound systems.)


OT - this means that ASIO4ALL is probably not a good idea with Focusrite.
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Old 07-28-2015, 03:44 PM   #138
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At least one (Focusrite) provides 24 bit with ASIO but only 16 bit with WDM
For what it's worth, the latest Focusrite beta driver now has 24 bit WDM. (I had so bad problems with the new beta driver though, that I had revert back to the older one.)
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Old 07-28-2015, 04:19 PM   #139
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So, ED are you jumping to 10 right away or have you already?
Nope, I'll give it at least 6 months first. 7 runs pretty darn nice for me. The only excuse would be replacing my OS hard drive with an SSD, then I'd go W10 for sure.
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Old 07-28-2015, 04:45 PM   #140
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Sound Asleep:
Havent you read anything of this thread?

Win10 is a dead easy install as far as the pre releases have behaved. I see no reason to expect anything different from the "real thing" in a day or so.

This is shaping up to be even easier than Win 8 & 8.1 although there will of course be the usual whining from the hard of thinking once it arrives....

Along with licensing people to own dogs, they should add firearms children and computers.
Not necessarily in that order.

No I haven't lol. Well, if all I have to to is run an upgrade, and everything just works after that. Then I might give it a shot, but I'm incredibly skeptical about that. I feel like my DAW PC is like some kind of house of cards, and the slightest breeze will knock it all over and cause me to need to restart, or spend forever fixing stuff. Right now everything works and I have no complaints.

I'll give it a spin on my laptop first. See how that goes, and what it is like, and then idk.

I don't even like the idea of getting a new computer to be honest. Just a lot of work to install and set everything up.
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Old 07-28-2015, 07:49 PM   #141
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For what it's worth, the latest Focusrite beta driver now has 24 bit WDM. (I had so bad problems with the new beta driver though, that I had revert back to the older one.)
Ah! Good to know they're working on it.
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Old 07-28-2015, 09:43 PM   #142
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..., windows 10 is just an oversized cell phone.
This is more the case with Win 8/8.1 than 10 ... in my opinion 10 is a compromise between 7 and 8. At least regarding the GUI I still like 7 best. And I bet I'm not the only one saying that.

I expect Win 10 not being that success, MS wants it to be. Win 7 will stay the most used Windows for a long while.
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Old 07-28-2015, 10:27 PM   #143
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Pretty sure W10 will take the crown within a year, probably a lot sooner.
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Old 07-28-2015, 11:02 PM   #144
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Pretty sure W10 will take the crown within a year, probably a lot sooner.
I highly doubt that, especially in enterprise environments. Time will tell.
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Old 07-29-2015, 12:03 AM   #145
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this Win 8 and 10 look is SO incredibly butt ugly that I may finally bail and go to Apple and stay there.
Agreed. They seem to be getting their inspiration from "Romper Room" these days. Hate the flat, pastel look. Looks like Classic Shell works in 10 though, so I can still navigate the good old XP way.
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Old 07-29-2015, 12:45 AM   #146
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ISO available now
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/soft...load/windows10
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Old 07-29-2015, 12:53 AM   #147
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Great, apart from it refuses to let me download from the download tool, because I am "using a computer that an upgrade for free to win10"

I might have known there would be SOME ineptitude in the initial implementation...

Gues I will wait till it D/Ls itself then.
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Old 07-29-2015, 12:54 AM   #148
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Thanks for the head's up, downloading now.


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Old 07-29-2015, 12:57 AM   #149
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Well, if all I have to to is run an upgrade, and everything just works after that. Then I might give it a shot, but I'm incredibly skeptical about that.
I did just that during the tech preview and public beta on two different machines with very different hardware setups, including 2 different RME audio-midi interfaces.
Absolutely NO issues at all apart from not liking the early versions of the start button window.
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Old 07-29-2015, 01:37 AM   #150
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Thanks for the link. Burning the ISO now to a DVD.
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Old 07-29-2015, 03:08 AM   #151
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Does this mean that today! is the day it is 'justified! by the user to demand! ...'humbly wish for..' drivers from different Co r US ?

Thanks, I will do a quick spinn myself just to see stuff for myself what has happened and what has not, happened.
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Old 07-29-2015, 03:28 AM   #152
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Found it, http://blog.cakewalk.com/windows-8-a...-applications/
(old yes but, thoughts?)
So speaking of drivers, optimized drivers can be good, even if some charts are misleading on purpose, improvements are improvements.
I hope 'they optimize and don't just add a certification thing on the old drivers.

So I hope 10 have something to offer audio related for the driver makers etc, audio close to metal if it isn't alreaady?
General thoughs, I remember the WASAPI readings yep.

Ps, 85%.. *beep
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Old 07-29-2015, 04:24 AM   #153
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From Ed Doll at Steinberg

Hello all,

We will release an official announcement later today but our tests have shown performance and timing issues with Cubase, Nuendo and Sequel on Windows 10 (build 10240) systems.
Also, the latest Quicktime 7.7.7 cannot be installed on a Windows 10 system which basically removes the video support in Cubase and Nuendo.
While these issues did not occur on all systems we tested with, we can only recommend to wait.

In addition, the Yamaha Steinberg USB and Firewire drivers also show issues with sample rate switches and thus are not fully compatible either.

More information will follow as soon as we know more.

----------------------------------------------

OK Reaper is not Cubase but I reckon hanging on for a while makes a lot of sense.
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Old 07-29-2015, 05:00 AM   #154
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(grin) So I downloaded and burned the .iso to a DVD.
The one thing I DONT know is if I will need a new auth key installing an upgrade form the .iso or if it will just pick up the existing install of win8.1 and go with it.

The Laptop in on Home Premium (And I thought it had Win8 Pro on it!) so it is busy downloading the upgrade and will presumably tell me what is going on as it installs.... more later.
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Old 07-29-2015, 06:31 AM   #155
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A quick and very un-pro'ish blog.

So I'm on the RTM now and thinking one can just paste the insider key was wrong might wanna log in your your mail account tied to it also, no time for that.
I'm just trying to break my record in installing drivers and the essential Maschine stuff and see how Reaper is enjoying the experience.
Curious about WASAPI and I could only use the shared mode and no matter what setting even making sure to match 16bit and Hz everywhere, the latency feel was off! using Maschine and my delicate sensitivity (reaction time) since I am a Pro Quake3-live master.
I don't need measurement tools for this one, it is way off, say ping 50, the same deal on Windows7 btw, with Maschine and changing the block size doesn't seem to do much, must be my lack competence I hope.

Using asio4all worked as normal and I got the nice timeing back.
loopMIDI virtual cable worked without problems, xonar essence st also works with the 8 drivers.
Some medium nitpick (my case scenario) would be that after updating stuff for the first time and it asked for a reboot, it stayed in (getting Windows ready, don't turn off..) way! to long so i forced shutdown and It was having problems with a Wacom device with it's auto detect and install, all good after some Manual tweaking though.
Just that one get no progress info during all that time.

So this is my short version and I can go Windows 10 if I wish i guess, just one question remains that I could not find out myself since that function is disabled until I buy and register.
Can one userdefine the colors and theme! as in, fine!userdefine gradient select? *whine*

*Back to 7 while waiting for 'soon'

*done, back on 7, hey how are you?

Edit: As for the components, the Ivy Bridge era in my case works without 10 drivers, used the 7 ones even, and this might be considered old?
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Old 07-29-2015, 09:08 AM   #156
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(grin) So I downloaded and burned the .iso to a DVD.
The one thing I DONT know is if I will need a new auth key installing an upgrade form the .iso or if it will just pick up the existing install of win8.1 and go with it.
You need the key, yes.. read the page I linked to earlier..
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Old 07-29-2015, 09:11 AM   #157
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From Ed Doll at Steinberg

Hello all,

We will release an official announcement later today but our tests have shown performance and timing issues with Cubase, Nuendo and Sequel on Windows 10 (build 10240) systems.
100% their own issue and they basically cause Windows10 to possibly get a bad rep because of their own incompetence.
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Old 07-29-2015, 09:12 AM   #158
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Yep, that's the Steiny we know.
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Old 07-29-2015, 09:32 AM   #159
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100% their own issue and they basically cause Windows10 to possibly get a bad rep because of their own incompetence.
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Yep, that's the Steiny we know.

Are you saying that it is only Steinberg that has to make some "adjustments" to work perfectly in Windows 10? In any case the comment "While these issues did not occur on all systems we tested with, we can only recommend to wait." is pretty clear and waiting is a good idea. I thought you suggested 6 months in an early post Ed.

Hell if you want to bash Steiny go ahead I'll just move on.
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Old 07-29-2015, 09:34 AM   #160
EvilDragon
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Sure we're on Reaper forums, it's free-for-all when other DAWs are concerned, haha


And yes, I'd definitely wait some time before upgrading, but that's a sane tactic with just about anything out there - doesn't matter if it's the OS, or a new commodity, etc.


More relevant, here's from a MS guy:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/11222364-post13.html
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/11222385-post15.html
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