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Old 04-01-2008, 10:33 AM   #1
Alsion
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Default Mackie Control Universal vs. MIDI-Inputs/MIDI-Control Surface Assignments

A few days ago I bought a Mackie Control Universal (NOT Pro) and 2 Mackie XTs. They are connected to a "MOTU micro lite" via MIDI-cables. The MOTU via USB to my computer. Reaper version is up-to-date.

They work well when I add them at "Preferences - Control Surfaces".
But I had to disable the inputs 1,2 and 3 at my MOTU at "Options - Preferences - Audio - MIDI-Devices".

But with disabling them I'm not able to assign the free buttons on the MCU as shortcuts. When they are enabled (or being re-enabled) I get the error message

The following MIDI-Inputs could not be opened:
micro lite: Port 1
micro lite: Port 2
micro lite: Port 3

Any hints?
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Old 04-03-2008, 11:56 PM   #2
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bump bump bump
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Old 04-08-2008, 06:20 AM   #3
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Am I the only one with that problem? No workaround?
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Old 04-08-2008, 06:53 AM   #4
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Alsion,

This is not a 'Bug Report' - this is a 'How do I get this working please' and should either be in General Discussion or similar.

Anyway, have you tried setting those MIDI ports to 'Enabled for Control Only' instead of 'Enabled' or 'Disabled'?

Whilst those ports are transmitting MIDI messages - they are being used for 'control purposes' and not playing VSTis etc.

So set them for Control only.

If you disable them - they won't work - because REAPER won't read those ports.

If you enable them - they will be interpreted as MIDI Input ports for sending MIDI into REAPER.

Set them for Control only and let us know what you get.
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Old 04-08-2008, 06:58 AM   #5
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I've tried that already. As soon as the ports are set to other values than "Disabled" I got the error message. So I just believed, this could be a bug indeed.
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Old 04-08-2008, 07:03 AM   #6
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It's unlikely to be a bug as many of us here use the MCU implementation successfully.

Can you post screenshots of your:

1. Preferences->Audio->MIDI Devices

2. Preferences->Control Surfaces

Have you tried to connect the MCU directly?

If you can, initially, just try and connect the MCU directly and without the Extenders. This way perhaps we can reduce the amount of variables.
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Old 04-09-2008, 10:29 AM   #7
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Ok, I've deleted the two extenders, but it's always the same problem. As soon as the Inputs (or Outputs) are Enabled I got the error message.
Could it be that the MOTU is responsible for the problems? Unfortunately I've got no other MIDI-interface to test that

It works without problems if I disable the MIDI-devices, but that way I'm not able to assign the free buttons on the Mackie.

[IMG]http://img153.**************/img153/9900/mididevicesws3.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img153.**************/img153/6575/controlsurfacesib2.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img441.**************/img441/4701/errorby8.jpg[/IMG]

(Last pic shows the try with only the main unit connected. But there is no difference if there are all devices connected or just the main unit)
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Old 04-10-2008, 12:33 PM   #8
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Alsion,

Apologies for not getting back to you sooner.

I've just had a look and see that the Micro Lite is a 'midi hub' yes?

What happens if you 'just' have the Micro Lite connected? Can you 'open' the midi ports to it?

Does it have any software to enable/disable its ports? If so please check they are enabled.

If you have a MIDI keyboard please try routing that through the Micro Lite and see if you can get any MIDI input at all - i.e. try driving a VSTi (or whatever) via:

MIDI Keyboard->Micro Lite->REAPER->VSTi

Really, before even considering the MCU stuff - you need to get MIDI communication established first.

My suggestion is forget about the MCU for now and just try and activate the MIDI ports between the PC and the Micro Lite.

Hope this helps as a first step.

Good luck!
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Old 04-12-2008, 07:04 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deric View Post
Alsion,
I've just had a look and see that the Micro Lite is a 'midi hub' yes?
Jepp, right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deric View Post
What happens if you 'just' have the Micro Lite connected? Can you 'open' the midi ports to it?
Yes, if there are no control surfaces it works without problems. No errors occur.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deric View Post
Does it have any software to enable/disable its ports? If so please check they are enabled.
No. No additional software or tools to do configuration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deric View Post
If you have a MIDI keyboard please try routing that through the Micro Lite and see if you can get any MIDI input at all - i.e. try driving a VSTi (or whatever) via:

MIDI Keyboard->Micro Lite->REAPER->VSTi
Done, works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deric View Post
Really, before even considering the MCU stuff - you need to get MIDI communication established first.

My suggestion is forget about the MCU for now and just try and activate the MIDI ports between the PC and the Micro Lite.

Hope this helps as a first step.
Hm. Now I know at last that the in-/outputs do work when no MCU is connected... But unfortunately that doesn't solve my problem

Any further ideas?
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Old 04-12-2008, 07:31 AM   #10
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Looks like just you and me so far!

OK, download MIDIOX and run that up, check what MIDI ports it can see (forget about any DAW app. when you do this).

Attach you MIDI keyboard to the MIDI hub and start pressing keys - you should see 'lots of numbers' appear on the (black) screen.

If this works then attach the MCU (not the extenders) to the same MIDI port on your MIDI hub.

Start pressing keys etc (on the MCU) and see if anything appears on the screen.
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Old 04-13-2008, 06:21 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deric View Post
Looks like just you and me so far!

OK, download MIDIOX and run that up, check what MIDI ports it can see (forget about any DAW app. when you do this).

Attach you MIDI keyboard to the MIDI hub and start pressing keys - you should see 'lots of numbers' appear on the (black) screen.

If this works then attach the MCU (not the extenders) to the same MIDI port on your MIDI hub.

Start pressing keys etc (on the MCU) and see if anything appears on the screen.
Using MIDI-OX is no problem. It recognizes all my in- and outputs of the micro lite. Also signals are being received (and send).

As I wrote before, the micro lite is working properly (on the technical side). Its only, that REAPER can't open the MIDI-Ports as long as I have set up the MCU

The next days, I'll try to get another MIDI-Hub. Maybe it's only the combination of micro lite/Reaper.
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Old 04-13-2008, 06:26 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alsion View Post
...As I wrote before, the micro lite is working properly (on the technical side). Its only, that REAPER can't open the MIDI-Ports as long as I have set up the MCU...
Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you...

Are you saying that MIDIOX can see the MIDI-data your MCU sends (via the hub) but REAPER cannot?
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Old 04-13-2008, 06:38 AM   #13
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REAPER can see it also and use the buttons for keyboard-commands. But only, if I have no entries at "Preferences -> Control surfaces".

As soon as there is set up a MCU, I get the error message if the MIDI-port ist not disabled. If I disable the midi-port, the mcu does work, but no keystrokes from the free buttons are being received (because I had to disable the used ports.).

So I'm like in a circle...
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Old 04-14-2008, 04:49 PM   #14
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Hi Alsion,

Sorry I haven't got back to you (trying to 'finish' something) - maybe put a quick post in the General Discussion sub-forum as there are a bunch of MCU users here...

Sorry...

Deric.

Ps. If you're still stuck when I'm done I'll try and 'help' again...
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Old 04-16-2008, 07:58 AM   #15
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hi alsion,

I ll check as soon as i get to my rehearsal room where i have left my motu fast track.

try and install mapletools midi ports. very useful and won't hurt anything. you can then connect some motu ports as inputs to the mapletools ports and check if reaper has the same problem opening the same port as a midi input AND control surface at the same time.

if so, you can duplicate your data from one mapletools port to another one (using the mapletools utility that comes with it)and use one port for the control surface an the other one for other midi input.

from my memory, i got my bcr working for both. but i's bee a while.

fab aka fas1
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Old 04-16-2008, 08:00 AM   #16
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Thanks. I'll try that later that evening
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Old 04-17-2008, 05:55 PM   #17
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Default Just a thought...

Alsion,

Have you deleted the entry(ies) for the MCU under Preferences->Control Surfaces?

If you have an entry for the MCU here please delete it before rechecking if you can enable the required ports in Preferences->Audio->MIDI Devices.

Deric.
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Old 04-17-2008, 11:39 PM   #18
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I tried both. As long as I don't add any entries here, I have no problem enabling the MIDI-Ports at "MIDI-Devices".

The problem only occurs when I try both: Adding the MCU at "Control Surfaces" AND enabling the port at MIDI-Devices for receiving key-strokes.
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Old 04-18-2008, 12:36 AM   #19
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Good. Don't enable the section in Control Surfaces.

Enable the correct ports in MIDI Devices as 'Control Only' and all should be fine.

Let us know how you get on.

[Edit: Mods, any chance of either 'Solved:' status for this, or perhaps move it out of 'Bug Reports'?]
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Last edited by Deric; 04-18-2008 at 12:41 AM. Reason: Request to Moderators.
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Old 04-18-2008, 12:44 AM   #20
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Sure? As long as there are no entries at "Control Surfaces" I can't use the faders, transport etc. with feedback! Or am I wrong?
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Old 04-18-2008, 01:04 AM   #21
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If you're near it just try it, I'll try with my surface here - although I don't have an MCU.

You may well not get the fader feedback as REAPER won't have loaded the correct surface map.

I'll add a new note here shortly.
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Old 04-18-2008, 01:09 AM   #22
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Unfortunately I'm quite far away from my equip Right here at work. I'll try that today evening, but if I don't get fader-feedback, it does not help me I'd like to have both: Control surface support with fader-feedback AND configurable buttons...
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Old 04-18-2008, 01:26 AM   #23
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Oops.

OK here it is... (I should have just checked my set-up before posting...) anyway, if I select the main port used in MIDI Devices I get the error you mention when adding the definition in Control Surfaces.

If I disable the option MIDI Devices, I can set the correct main In/Out ports in the Control Surface section - which then loads the correct map without errors.

So I have to disable the ports in MIDI Devices to prevent the error.

You need to disable the ports in MIDI Devices - apologies for the confusion and conflicting advice.

I think the reason Cockos have implemented the 'Control Only' options in MIDI Devices is so that users with surfaces that do NOT currently have a map can use their surface for controlling REAPER.

As far as programming your buttons - this will depend on what the button is supposed to do and whether that functionality is, currently, remote-controllable via MIDI.

Set up the above when you get back home/studio and list one or two buttons that don't work.

Go into Preferences->Keyboard Control->New and see if REAPER recognises any of the button-pushes (by pressing the buttons) by looking in the field at the top of the window in the 'Shortcut' field.

I hadn't appreciated quite how this works and my main surface was set up for 'Control Only' in MIDI Devices - but I've taken this out now as it is not required (as my surface uses the MCU map) - see above.

Anyway, apologies for the conflicting advice.

If REAPER does not recognise any of the button pushes via the 'Shortcut' method (Keyboard Control) you may have to wait until further extensions are implemented.

Also if REAPER does not recognise the button pushes (as above) you may want to write down the MIDI values sent from the MCU to the computer with something like MIDIOX or similar, and then add what the button label is, and what the button is supposed to do. This information may be of use at a later date.
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Old 04-18-2008, 08:26 AM   #24
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alsion, how does it work with my work-around - duplicating the midi data to another mabletools port and enabling one for midi and one for control surface?

also, have you seen the link i posted in your other thread? n42 programmed the control surface api for the alphatrack in order to make the alphatrack buttons available in the keybindings. maybe you could ask n42 if he could do it for the MCU apparently it is quick when you know how to do that.

look here

http://cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19834

fab
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Old 04-18-2008, 10:37 AM   #25
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fab,
I've tried your solution, but it seems to be a bit complicated. At the moment I try do get it done with the virtual midi-cables and MIDI-OX connecting them.
Is there any other way to configure the cables without MIDI-OX?

On the first try it seemed to work, but I got no button-feedback anymore Then I've made some changes, without positive results. Next I switched back to the first version, but that didn't work anymore. Don't ask me why.

But I still play around with that. Maybe I'll find a workaround, but although I think it is still a bug or let's say an "open issue" in REAPER.

I still hope that someone with programming-skills is able to hack the csurf.dll for a "real" solution.
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Old 04-20-2008, 04:36 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alsion View Post
fab,
I've tried your solution, but it seems to be a bit complicated. At the moment I try do get it done with the virtual midi-cables and MIDI-OX connecting them.
Is there any other way to configure the cables without MIDI-OX?
it IS a little confusing because you deal with routing to virtual in and out ports. i had it working, though, so i am positivie that it is possible.

mapletools have their own "layering" utility to map ports and channels. you need insert the layering plugin into the mapletools host and then layer all the channels /16) one by one to another port. you need to make shure that the virtual maple port that you have mapped to is configured as the input for the control surface. then configure the actual physical midi in of your control surface (in your case, the motu!) as output for the reaper control surface.

it is clumsy to set it up at first but the automatic preset loading works well. i put an alias for my preset into windows autoload, so i don't have to think about it. there is no visible tax on cpu for this.

fab
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Old 04-20-2008, 05:17 AM   #27
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Ok, I've got a solution/work-around! It still needs some bugfixing, but as soon as this is done I will post it here.

The hint of fab with the MapleTools was the point... Thank you once again!

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