Windows 8 compatibility?

[Jae.Thomas]

this one really seemed promising! I am not as of yet ready to reinstall everything I have - maybe I'll see if I can get a student discount on the new office suite first or something.

[Steve36]

For anyone who is interested, this is what I did to get my Windows 8 Pro upgrade up and running.
First of all I have a second partition on my Win7 Pro Toshiba laptop (previously with xp on it) that I formatted and installed a clean Win7 Pro on.Then I installed the Win8 Pro upgrade and proceeded to install Reaper,my digi 003 rack driver, and my plugins.The first issue I had was not being able to boot into my Win7 partition...I fixed this by installing a handy little piece of software called "Easy BCD"...I can now access Win7,Win8 and a Linux partition with no problems.The second issue I had was with my digi 003 rack (I could not change the Asio buffer size without Reaper,Sampletank,or any other software from crashing).This was fixed by downloading the Centrance latency test tool from here... http://www.centrance.com/downloads/ltu/ which I discovered in this thread... http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=57483
After the usual Win7 audio tweaks (minimal...disabling networking,power-saving and such) I found that the only plugins I had trouble with were "Valhalla Room" and "Nebula3 Server".Valhalla was fixed easily by reinstalling in Win7 compatibility mode...funnily enough,Nebula worked fine after I disabled the administrator privileges on the Reaper (x64) .exe file in the Programs\Reaper (x64) folder...The desktop shortcut is still set to run as administrator though.Other plugins that work ok include...Sampletank,Stillwell Rocket and Bombardier,T-RackS,Plex,Superior Drummer 2.0 and EZ Drummer,Klanghelm VU meter,Toneboosters (all of them),and the ddmf eq's...(and Melodyne Editor 1.something)...hopefully this info is useful to someone.

P.S.Both Win7 and 8 Pro are (x64) and all plugins so far are (x64) except for Sampletank which is (x32).All software was installed with administrator privileges.

Steve

[Jae.Thomas]

http://www.jasonbrianmerrill.com/ind...ade-experience

maybe that easyBCD would be a start?

[Steve36]

Hey Jason...just read about your experience...Yuckk...!!!
I would probably bite the bullet, install Win7 clean on a new partition,and then try the upgrade.
EasyBCD will let you boot into your old one after you install the new one.At least you don't have to mess with
your Win7 install until you're sure everything works.

Steve

[danfuerth]

I was a beta tester for windows 8 since it's first beta and I have had 0 issues in almost 2 years.

I also took part in the development of the betas, as I explained before my work involved the services management.

The only big thing I diasgreed with Microsoft over the Betas was the requirement of the NX bit for Windows 8 to install

Those with Pentium 4 (x32), Amd Athlon (x32) will not be able to Install windows 8.

Hope you all understand that

** Windows 8 requires that your CPU and MOBO suppport the NX bit ( No execute) ***

That is why Systems with Windows 7 (retail) qualify for the upgrade.

Windows 8 has been rocking for almost 2 years on my machines.

I took part in it. And my contribution allows you to boot in 8 seconds with just a standard sata drive on laptops.

Also took part in the powered down battery procedures, so that when you plug in your ac adapter in about 9 seconds you are back to the screen you left off.

[lowellben]

I'm running Windows 8 Pro here and it's absolutely destroying Win7 as far as RAM/CPU efficiency. Straight up impressive imo. Up there w/ Ubuntu 12.10 for me.

I haven't been able to peak 2GB running all my stuff here (minus Reaper/VSTi) - just system, surfing, everyday apps etc - that's awesome in my book. OS alone averaging about 1.2GB idle/web only surfing. That alone is worth upgrading I think.

No issues w/ Reaper x64 in Win 8 Pro yet (x64).

Ben

[Coachz]

ahhh, potential performance gains, now i'm interested. How much hard drive space? Still the ridiculous 15 GB like win 7 ? Win 98 took 300mb. heheh

[Evan]

@danfuerth

Very interesting. I am very curious on what new Windows 8 brings to the table for desktop/workstation/productivity users.

Ok I've read it boots faster, resumes faster from standby and uses a little less RAM compared to 7. However, none of that sounds very compelling. Windows 7 is fast and lightweight enough, memory is not an issue and I don't boot that often in day to care if it takes 10 or 30 seconds. (speaking for my DAWs)

Are there any really compelling reasons to move over to Windows 8? For us DAW people. Chances for lower stable latencies? Improved audio and multimedia APIs? Significantly improved multi-core support?

Thanks

[karbomusic]

Are there any really compelling reasons to move over to Windows 8? For us DAW people.

Sorry, I know the question isn't for me... however...

Its really completely subjective for the individual especially if you aren't having any issues at all in Win7. Each person's machine is a unique combination of software, hardware, drivers, settings and habits. Thus, it is completely impossible to predict how the experience will be. For the vast majority it will be a positive one due to the millions of hours of testing and refining that went into it. I wouldn't consider it half baked by any means and I was testing long before it was generally available.

For the four days I've had RTM installed on this box, I'm happy because I like it better as a computer user in general. However, If I were feeding myself with it as a DAW everyday, I'd be testing it on another machine or making a backup of Win7 until I was happy everything functioned properly; I would never take the risk of affecting my income on a whim. That has nothing to do with Win8, its just a smart way to approach it.

Like I said there are/will be compelling reasons as I think it is a more mature and refined OS but I'm hesitant to compel anyone to upgrade if they use it as a DAW for their job. If its not mission critical, it doesn't really matter, make a backup and install it.

[lowellben]

Seriously though, it DESTROYS Windows 7 w/ CPU and RAM - Win7 was "good" yes, but Win8 just pummels 7 imo. I'm running it on my old POS AMD E450 laptop w/ 4GB ram it's barely sweating using photoshop/reaper.

And without getting into a Google vs MS war, as far as corporate/sync/cloud privacy/ etc - I'd rather be with Microsoft than Google. Granted, I'm an Android fan boy lol but MS did very very good with Win8 imo, people need to just give it a chance Syncing is awesome on these things, I can't wait for the new Surfaces to come out (no RT, I'm all for x86 over ARM).

Remember too, when XP came out that was a big change too and many "hated" it...

Originally Posted by Evan

@danfuerth

Very interesting. I am very curious on what new Windows 8 brings to the table for desktop/workstation/productivity users.

Ok I've read it boots faster, resumes faster from standby and uses a little less RAM compared to 7. However, none of that sounds very compelling. Windows 7 is fast and lightweight enough, memory is not an issue and I don't boot that often in day to care if it takes 10 or 30 seconds. (speaking for my DAWs)

Are there any really compelling reasons to move over to Windows 8? For us DAW people. Chances for lower stable latencies? Improved audio and multimedia APIs? Significantly improved multi-core support?

Thanks

[Jae.Thomas]

ok, I have some reading for school to do and no particular audio work - and a great backup system... so im gonna try again

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill

ok, I have some reading for school to do and no particular audio work - and a great backup system... so im gonna try again

Not sure if you can get to it if you have issues but if the setup fails and knows it failed there is a folder where logs etc. are created that may show what happened:

C:\Windows\Panther\Rollback

I'm not saying this will fix anything or be intelligible, but hey, might as well know its there.

[Coachz]

pummels ... destroys ? bring on some real benchmarks.

Originally Posted by lowellben

Seriously though, it DESTROYS Windows 7 w/ CPU and RAM - Win7 was "good" yes, but Win8 just pummels 7 imo. I'm running it on my old POS AMD E450 laptop w/ 4GB ram it's barely sweating using photoshop/reaper.

And without getting into a Google vs MS war, as far as corporate/sync/cloud privacy/ etc - I'd rather be with Microsoft than Google. Granted, I'm an Android fan boy lol but MS did very very good with Win8 imo, people need to just give it a chance Syncing is awesome on these things, I can't wait for the new Surfaces to come out (no RT, I'm all for x86 over ARM).

Remember too, when XP came out that was a big change too and many "hated" it...

[lowellben]

I've done benchmarks on all my machines, the numbers tell the story.

Try Win8 and see if it's right for you. I've read your posts and I know how you feel about Win95 but change is good sometimes Coach. Microsoft had to do something to compete and stay on top - this was a wise move imo, re-inventing like this. It's not 1997 anymore. People will adapt, we always do.

And fwiw, Win98 was the first "good" OS, 95 sucked from a devs POV imo.

Fighting words! hehe

Originally Posted by Coachz

pummels ... destroys ? bring on some real benchmarks.

[Jae.Thomas]

ok, im back in. Gonna do a restart before I do anything else. It really is quite a bit snappier.

[karbomusic]

Gonna do a restart before I do anything else

Oh crap I hope you show back up in a minute (fingers crossed).

[Jae.Thomas]

so far so good. This time seems better. Microsoft had some updates before I installed, perhaps they had to address some issues. We will see. Listening to some Bill Evans, doing homework, and checking my plugins... hehe.

[lowellben]

Bill is the man!

[Coachz]

interesting, we do adapt don't we. If upgrade was a sure thing I might go for it but my install takes about 6 hours after all my plugs and apps so I'll probably wait a while to dive in. Looks like about 20% or so improvement in general speed which is pretty nice. Probably worth upgrading for that. Both win7 and win8 use about the same 17gb to 20gb for an install. hehe. Win98 used 330mb ! Yeah baby !

http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-vs-wi...p2-7000002671/

Upgrade is $40 from xp, vista or 7 which is cool.

http://m.nbcnews.com/technology/tech...p-vista-858859

Originally Posted by lowellben

I've done benchmarks on all my machines, the numbers tell the story.

Try Win8 and see if it's right for you. I've read your posts and I know how you feel about Win95 but change is good sometimes Coach. Microsoft had to do something to compete and stay on top - this was a wise move imo, re-inventing like this. It's not 1997 anymore. People will adapt, we always do.

And fwiw, Win98 was the first "good" OS, 95 sucked from a devs POV imo.

Fighting words! hehe

[Evan]

Originally Posted by lowellben

Seriously though, it DESTROYS Windows 7 w/ CPU and RAM - Win7 was "good" yes, but Win8 just pummels 7 imo. I'm running it on my old POS AMD E450 laptop w/ 4GB ram it's barely sweating using photoshop/reaper

I am eager to believe you, because this sounds like great news! But I would like some more concrete proof.

For example, the gaming benchmark done by Tomshardware finds little difference between the two Windows.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ance,3331.html

Gaming is not directly relevant to us, but it does stress the software/hardware.

[Coachz]

licensing info of interest

http://www.zdnet.com/how-the-new-win...ou-7000003028/

the benchmarks of transcoding show about 20% improvement which shows real cpu efficiency improvements which I hope translate to faster Reaper app.

[Evan]

Originally Posted by Coachz

the benchmarks of transcoding show about 20% improvement which shows real cpu efficiency improvements which I hope translate to faster Reaper app.

Tomshardware just published some tests for AMD's Bulldozer CPU, comparing performance in Windows 7 vs 8. Now we know that the Bulldozer is a bad CPU in general, but check out the differences in performance that Windows 8 make over w7, for tasks that matter. (spoiler: there are none)

Productivity tests
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ce,3289-6.html

Audio/Video Encoding
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ce,3289-5.html

Adobe CS6
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ce,3289-4.html

[Zephyrus]

Have windows 8 here since last friday.
Runs without any problems, it's faster when it comes to system resources and once you have managed to get into the new metro workflow it does its job very good.
One tip about a important driver for some of you:
If you want to install Frontier Alphatrack you must deselect "install device driver" in setup or it will quit with "not for this os".
Then simply goto Programs/Alphatrack and rightclick inf-file->install. Works perfectly!
So conclusion: It seems to be the new audio os for me, it's alreay better than win7 and very great in performance.
zeph

[Coachz]

anyone know if all this is true ? I hope not.

Microsoft is a LICENSE which they can discontinue support without notice. You DON'T own Windows 8.

You cannot resell it legally. Win8 notifies MS concerning every software you install.

All MS products have a back door access for police.

[Zephyrus]

No backdoor or homecalling here
audio testing: dpc latency checker shows (on this machine) significant changes, no spikes anymore, it should handle rt audio better than win7...

[lowellben]

Originally Posted by Coachz

anyone know if all this is true ? I hope not.

Microsoft is a LICENSE which they can discontinue support without notice. You DON'T own Windows 8.

You cannot resell it legally. Win8 notifies MS concerning every software you install.

All MS products have a back door access for police.

The backdoor kill switch has been a quasi-known-hyped debate in tech talk circles...you have to decide what you believe for yourself, there is no way around it. Personally, I'm a Linux guy - for everything. But Reaper needs PC, so I use a PC for my DAW.

Do I trust MS over Google for data mining/security/anon/privacy? Hell yes.
Do I believe that, in the past OS's, Windows has put in place "calling home" features? Yes, they confirmed that a long time ago. (I think Microsoft has had a backdoor in every OS since Windows 98...)

Win7 and Win8? I have no idea if they stopped that practice, but at this point, who is going to really change it either way?

Best of luck.

[lowellben]

I'm glad Alpha works in Win8!

Originally Posted by Zephyrus

Have windows 8 here since last friday.
Runs without any problems, it's faster when it comes to system resources and once you have managed to get into the new metro workflow it does its job very good.
One tip about a important driver for some of you:
If you want to install Frontier Alphatrack you must deselect "install device driver" in setup or it will quit with "not for this os".
Then simply goto Programs/Alphatrack and rightclick inf-file->install. Works perfectly!
So conclusion: It seems to be the new audio os for me, it's alreay better than win7 and very great in performance.
zeph

[Win Conway]

Originally Posted by Coachz

anyone know if all this is true ? I hope not.

Microsoft is a LICENSE which they can discontinue support without notice. You DON'T own Windows 8.

You cannot resell it legally. Win8 notifies MS concerning every software you install.

All MS products have a back door access for police.

Lets be clear here, Apple are a holes, MS are a holes, Linux is next to useless for audio work for most people.
they are the three main contenders in most markets right now
Do Apple have back doors, yep
Do MS have back doors, yep
Have they been in place for a loooooong loooong time, yep

Solution ?
Install the OS you need for your audio work, if it be OSX or Win
Use Linux to access the net
(Oh i wish it where that simple hahahaha)

Basically these behemoth corporate scumbags will do whatever they want and however they want because right now nobody has stepped up and said "Hey f**k you, that's not legal" (Not being able to sell on your software purchases, very much not legal in the EU)

As of right now and forever more, any software company that bypasses the users legal rights to sell on their purchases as they see fit will be downloaded via torrent and used happily by myself.
I do not actually run anything cracked right now but you know what, a hole companies like these (Yes they exist in the audio world too, IK and others ignoring the law) deserve to lose sales, what is good for the goose........

[Coachz]

well put gpunk. thanks

[lowellben]

Yup, that's pretty much how it is. I use Rosegarden and MuseScore/LilyPond on Linux, but it's no Reaper

I only go online w/ my Linux machines anyway, Win8 is an offline DAW.

[karbomusic]

Do I believe that, in the past OS's, Windows has put in place "calling home" features? Yes, they confirmed that a long time ago.

Not really, anyone who can read a network trace (and a few other things) can show you this isn't the case. Now phone home to activate or check for updates etc., yes, phone home for whatever other sneaky, covert reason that everyone is paranoid about, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

[Zephyrus]

Not really, anyone who can read a network trace (and a few other things) can show you this isn't the case. Now phone home to activate or check for updates etc., yes, phone home for whatever other sneaky, covert reason that everyone is paranoid about, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

+1 on this. There are many people saying this and that, but look at it technical it does none of these mysterious privacy attacs.
And saying this, every routing device has a firewall build in, take a look what's going on there...nothing.
What is much more a problem noadays is that you give detailed personal information (adress, tel, birthday, creditcards, hobbies etc.) to everyone whos asking. Google's Android, IOS, Windows Live, Mail accounts, Amazon and Ebay, they all collecting data from you through simple registering processes but you are afraid that Microsoft traces you? Wich data do you store within your Windows registration that you not tell all those companies above?

[Coachz]

maybe there are secret ports you can't see. tin foil hat time

[Zephyrus]

Originally Posted by Coachz

maybe there are secret ports you can't see. tin foil hat time

zeph

[Jae.Thomas]

one annoying thing about windows 8 is the weirdness of the new menus - they only pop up sometimes, as if they are expecting some kind of special gesture from me. Overall, the start thing is interesting, and I might see a use for it in a tablet, but not for my desktop. I really wish MS would have thought that one through a bit, but it's really only a minor inconvenience.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Coachz

maybe there are secret ports you can't see. tin foil hat time

I certainly don't blame the concern, its always smart to say "what if" and check. However, it kinda doesn't work that way (aka secret ports). Just like no piece of software is truly uncrackable, that same weakness exists everywhere. Additionally, the tools that confirms the protocol works and helps build it, can't be wrong or the protocol wouldn't work.

http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc793.html

[Coachz]

must be running some hidden protocols ?

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Coachz

must be running some hidden protocols ?

Not sure how to explain it, it simply doesn't (and can't) work that way for our purposes anyway. It's so obvious I'll assume you're just yanking my chain for fun which is fine btw.

[lowellben]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Not really, anyone who can read a network trace (and a few other things) can show you this isn't the case. Now phone home to activate or check for updates etc., yes, phone home for whatever other sneaky, covert reason that everyone is paranoid about, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

I wasn't speaking due to paranoia, Microsoft has admitted the back door all along, it's not really a secret, nor does it bother me - I stick to mainly open source "free" software anyways. Free as in “free speech,” not as in “free beer”.

I'm not talking about necessarily a James Bond style convert op, but Microsoft has (does?) implemented ways that they can "interact" (we'll call it that) with their users machines, and collect some degree of information about it.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by lowellben

I wasn't speaking due to paranoia, Microsoft has admitted the back door all along, it's not really a secret, nor does it bother me - I stick to mainly open source "free" software anyways. Free as in “free speech,” not as in “free beer”.

Serve up the admission so we can see it for what it is (edit: actually scratch that, see lounge comment). As far as the free vs free argument not interested, and/or taking this one much further it is really fodder for the lounge.

I'm not talking about necessarily a James Bond style convert op, but Microsoft has (does?) implemented ways that they can "interact" (we'll call it that) with their users machines, and collect some degree of information about it.

Again, proper verifiable references so we can judge it openly. Don't talk around it; then again, its lounge stuff which as I said, not interested in this area of the forum and I have the lounge hidden from me.