Old 02-14-2018, 12:32 PM   #1
Tiggerdyret
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Default Fastest way to do vocal layers

I'm recording 16 layers for a vocal harmony arrangement tomorrow. Do you have any tips to speed up my workflow? What is the most efficient way of doing this?
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:42 PM   #2
BenK-msx
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If you want to be neat, folder tracks with your corrective type FX eq etc feeding a main track for further sweetening.

However I prefer the chaos of free item positioning mode and record all layers in one track, at least initially, (doing so looped with monitor track media on is quick) then I'd do corrective eq as item FX and neaten up or delete dodgy bits later.

(16 multiplied by 'a bad freq' can get awful very quickly)
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Old 02-14-2018, 01:05 PM   #3
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Thanks, if was thinking more en terms of recording them quickly than mixing. My plan is to eq each track separately. I just need to do it 4 times and copy. The 16 layers are 4 different harmonies layered 4 times each. So 4 x 4.I might pan 2 and 2 left and right, but haven't decided yet. It's uh vocal working like an instrument pad, if I had a choir available that would be the way to go, but I only have myself and my own voice, but it still want it to feel fat and get the natural chorus effect. Should I just record it once for each voice instead?
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Old 02-14-2018, 01:16 PM   #4
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Make a custom action that disables record arm on the existing track, duplicates the track, selects then deletes the items on the newly duplicated track and record arms it. Assign that to a keyboard shortcut or toolbar button. That way as soon as you finish a track, click the button, and the next track is ready to go.

That's how I do it anyway, just test the custom action on non critical tracks first so you know it works.
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Old 02-14-2018, 01:55 PM   #5
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It's a choice if you want to eg hear all 12 takes before when doing #13, or not.
I'll set up all tracks groups or folders.
Then ctrl + alt and push record on the track you want
or pref set selected track to recrd.

You will probably do some mistakes, take2, so I'd use default rec-mode (split on new records, make takes)

ymmv
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Old 02-14-2018, 02:06 PM   #6
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Karbo: That's sound like a very good idea.

G-Sun: I don't think I quite understand your first sentence.
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Old 02-14-2018, 03:12 PM   #7
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For speed of recording my perhaps unclear suggestion was to put your track in free item poaitioning mode, then loop record, ensuring the monitor track media recording setting is on.

Have Done what you desire many times that way, also move your mic position a bit each pass (step away or to side) so the blend is more convincing.

Can tidy up after.
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Old 02-14-2018, 03:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
I'm recording 16 layers for a vocal harmony arrangement tomorrow. Do you have any tips to speed up my workflow? What is the most efficient way of doing this?
Eyyo- use the power of the machines!! you have a powerfull machine right or not?
Logically when it comes to actually "recording" 1st n formost you really want to capture at highest sampling rate your machine can manage..more sps=more signal to play with after....ok..sooo.. reaper has the ability to multitrack__so,use that to an absolute advantage.
Each input track can be 64 channels--each channel can hold a different effect__eq,pitcher,delay,reverb,chorus----whatever your machine can 'run' @ an input stage.. you can record directly 64 multichannel recording *|| per track||* (in theory,again what machine can run @.)
1x64 channel file... or how ever many your machine will manage to work with::

So 1 'track' can have chnls 1+2 totally dry--- 3+4 could be delay,5+6 pitcher,7+8 chorus,9+10 eq,11+12 ampsim....ect etc etc -upto 64 chnls @ input stage!!!
Multitracking is defo the way to go imo.you can explode:keep as 1 take: w/e you want really..
It depends on how many inputs your using also-- you could have upto 64 mics dotted around in different positions,each being recorded *in* with super sweet compressors,eq or whatever gold fx 1 may have. == this is todays recording.==beautiful. =)
I also prefere just 1 loong take if recording. then comp/slip and stitch afterwards if need be.. =happy..sometimezzzz..

Last edited by Bri1; 02-14-2018 at 03:47 PM. Reason: 1Xtra
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:23 PM   #9
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I once made a vocal template and have been using it since, although I did make (many) changes during daily usage and haven't updated the template for a while.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=175992

Here's the type of music I made to demonstrate the template, written and recorded within 2 days with far from optimum recording and mixing equipment/room conditions.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=1672763

My approach is “record fast”. I personally do 3 valid takes per voice per doubling, and I usually do L+R 2 doubling per voice for traditional SATB kind of background harmony, or 4 for stereo melodies (having melody on the side rather than center) and rap related materials.

While recording, do everything in one track, let reaper automatically place each take into different lane, don’t do any edits, and try to do minimum amount of technical controls, only stop when there’s a fatal error such as bad arrangement or physical fatigue. Record a phrase or a section of a single layer, decide whether to keep or drop the take, then repeat the same phrases until you have more than enough takes to edit from for later. Then drag the item (usually with 10+ takes) to the corresponding playback track, mute that track and start the next layer. Listen only after you finish recording all voices of a single section, and maybe edit during breaks.

The idea is to record really fast. If the arrangement works for your vocal ability, you should be able to record a section of a song with 4 voices and all those doubling within 10 minutes after warming up, and that speed fuels your efficiency. Make sure to leave enough valid takes for edit later, valid is defined as no obvious problems such voice break, bad tone, sour notes, or off the groove rhythm.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggerdyret View Post
Should I just record it once for each voice instead?
Not if you want thick, lush choir or background vocals. I also use 4 tracks for each harmony on my ballad type songs and it works wonderfully. 2 tracks doesn't do it, three tracks doesn't do it but 4 tracks and something magical happens. I usually do a take, then rest for a minute or so before the next take. Some of my harmony background vocals can get me winded pretty quickly if I'm not careful.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Make a custom action that disables record arm on the existing track, duplicates the track, selects then deletes the items on the newly duplicated track and record arms it. Assign that to a keyboard shortcut or toolbar button. That way as soon as you finish a track, click the button, and the next track is ready to go.

That's how I do it anyway, just test the custom action on non critical tracks first so you know it works.
This is a very interesting idea! Useful for more than just vocals.
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:17 AM   #12
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Thanks guys. There are a lot of good suggestions, so I have bookmarked this thread. I had a setup with all the tracks ready and a separate recording channel, where I can drag down the takes to to different vocal track when I've done a take. I'll definitely use your suggestions for my next project as some of them seem way better, when starting from scratch.
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:31 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by BenK-msx View Post
For speed of recording my perhaps unclear suggestion was to put your track in free item poaitioning mode, then loop record, ensuring the monitor track media recording setting is on.

Have Done what you desire many times that way, also move your mic position a bit each pass (step away or to side) so the blend is more convincing.

Can tidy up after.
Yes, that's the way I do too, fast and easy to edit.
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:44 AM   #14
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I think when he means layers he means layering harmonies, which will be better on separate tracks 99% of the time in a real mix - because they are layered harmonies/doubles etc. needing their own edits/treatment/panning/levels and so on. I suppose one could try to do such on one track but in the long run I find that more work, more steps with less options/more fiddling across the entirety of a project YMMV.
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:47 AM   #15
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Becomes a personal thing I think, for me, during that creative phase, getting it down etc,
making it all 'neat and tidy' sucks my energy in wrong direction - then as mix progresses from creative phase it seems the right time to have a tidy up, move to separate tracks, pan and tweak etc.

Totally understand the benefits of 'order' from the off though!
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:57 AM   #16
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"Does it scale" is what I now use to judge. Is this method as fast/faster and less prone to fiddling and mistakes than other methods when I have to deal with 100 tracks and 10 songs.

If it is just me and a ~10 track song, how I accomplish things becomes must less sensitive to workflow etc. but when projects become more complex and larger, the smaller things begin to amplify themselves.
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Old 02-16-2018, 09:57 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Make a custom action that disables record arm on the existing track, duplicates the track, selects then deletes the items on the newly duplicated track and record arms it. Assign that to a keyboard shortcut or toolbar button. That way as soon as you finish a track, click the button, and the next track is ready to go.

That's how I do it anyway, just test the custom action on non critical tracks first so you know it works.
I liked the sound of this so made one. Tested.

Action list:

Track: Unarm all tracks for recording
Track: Duplicate Tracks
SWS: Delete all items on selected track(s)
Track: Toggle record arm for selected tracks
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:59 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggerdyret View Post
G-Sun: I don't think I quite understand your first sentence.
Do you want to hear previous tracked layers while tracking or not?
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Old 02-16-2018, 11:27 AM   #19
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G-Sun, I think he means layering as in tracks not takes. Yes it can be done with takes but it would be fiddly and less efficient if they are true "layered harmonies". Often when layering harmonies, better to use takes for each individual harmony to get the right performance, then tracks for the separate harmonies and doubles, YMMV. As I mentioned before, scale is what matters, on very small projects, it probably doesn't matter.
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Old 02-16-2018, 11:51 AM   #20
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Hi,
You can skip one extra action by using ....duplicate tracks (no items). Use it all the time. Sws take mixer also is indispensable but the window is modal.
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Old 02-16-2018, 12:26 PM   #21
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Quote:
Do you want to hear previous tracked layers while tracking or not?
This is where 1 long take comes into play...i prefere looping monitoring sections---not looping recorded takes--it gets messy _quick...especially with tiny sections i guess-- i just go for 1 good take every time-- because on stage,that's all you get.
If your building takes,sometimes you don't want to hear it back straight away--just keep recording until you 'feel' it's a "keeper"...actions can be set to add new looped takes as offsets for realtime playbacks.
Having a pukka input fx chain works 2 ways--- you get a fantastic capture..++ the same fx chain can still be used for post processing as well. (ok you may have to rearoute or tweak a little,but minimal) =
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Old 02-16-2018, 02:23 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by LugNut View Post
Hi,
You can skip one extra action by using ....duplicate tracks (no items). Use it all the time. Sws take mixer also is indispensable but the window is modal.
I don't see this in the action list...but yeah, that would be preferable.

I'm new to Reaper, so maybe I just don't know how to search the action list as well.
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Old 02-16-2018, 02:30 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
G-Sun, I think he means layering as in tracks not takes. Yes it can be done with takes but it would be fiddly and less efficient if they are true "layered harmonies". Often when layering harmonies, better to use takes for each individual harmony to get the right performance, then tracks for the separate harmonies and doubles, YMMV. As I mentioned before, scale is what matters, on very small projects, it probably doesn't matter.
Sorry about the terminology-confusion.
1 take = one recording pass
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Old 02-16-2018, 04:40 PM   #24
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Hi,
You can skip one extra action by using ....duplicate tracks (no items). Use it all the time. Sws take mixer also is indispensable but the window is modal.
Seriously if there's an action like this how do you search for it? Not to hijack this topic, but I just can't find it. Closest (and most useful) I find is:

Xenakios/SWS: Select tracks with no items


I don't find any duplicate tracks with no items.

The search results are so specific...maybe there's a preferred syntax?
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