Old 09-12-2017, 04:37 PM   #1
mykrobinson
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Default Another 32bit vs 64bit plugin discussion

I have seen a lot of people talk about using only 64 bit plugins, and that is fine. My question, I suppose is technical to some extent.

Let's take the Variety of Sound plugins, for example. Those plugins are 32bit only, however they work just fine in 64bit Reaper due to native bridging.

Is there any reason why one would NOT want to use these plugins? I have yet to have one crap out on me in a 64bit Reaper install. I understand there is a limit to how much memory 32bit programs can access. But outside of this, what would be the reason that many shy away from a 32bit plugin if it still gets the job done?

I try to use 64bit plugins wherever I can. I am currently putting the Dead Duck plugin set through its paces to see how it works out. But I have a soft spot in my heart for the Variety of Sound plugins. They are attractive and they perform as they should.

Your thoughts on the subject?
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:48 PM   #2
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- They can be a little buggy. Sometimes all of the VoS plugins in my project will just stop working, reset their values to zero, and refuse to pass any audio until I reload the project.

- Bridging uses extra CPU. Not much, but if you're running a lot of stuff in your session you may not want to sacrifice those few % of CPU.
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:49 PM   #3
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They can be a little buggy. Sometimes all of the VoS plugins in my project will just stop working, reset their values to zero, and refuse to pass any audio until I reload the project.
Curious, have you found a nice replacement for VoS stuff?
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Old 09-12-2017, 06:30 PM   #4
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I had really loved using the VoS plugins as well, but once I switched to 64 bit I started having problems with them. Particularly, as the track count and plugin count increased (regardless of quantity of VoS plugins) they would start to become buggy and noisy and/or cause problems with the CPU. In general, they caused my REAPER projects to become unstable.

Someone here suggested I vet out any 32 bit plugins to see if they were the culprit, and sure enough they were. So, I've since done away with all 32 bit plugins including the beloved VoS plugins.

After a while I found other ways to get where I wanted to go with or without direct alternatives.

Did you have any specific VoS plugins you want to replace?
Furthermore, if you're not experiencing any trouble then why bother? Are you just wanting to prevent the possibility of encountering a problem with them in the future?
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Old 09-12-2017, 06:55 PM   #5
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Sanford reverb to replace epicverb, though i still find myself using epicverb (and reverb in general) more that i should
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Old 09-12-2017, 07:10 PM   #6
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I'd suggest - all technical things equal - consistency itself is of value.

Not the strongest argument, but a piece of the puzzle.
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Old 09-12-2017, 07:18 PM   #7
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I'll add that I only ignore the x86 version of a plug if I have both x86 and x64. I wouldn't suggest ditching all x86 just for giggles, like Steinberg did with Cubase 9.

Some spin-like verbiage:
"Running in 64-bit only makes sure that you benefit from the most modern technology available" - https://www.steinberg.net/en/product..._cubase_9.html

Reminds me of how directX phased out, for better or worse. Looks like Reaper still supports those as well though.
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Old 09-12-2017, 11:00 PM   #8
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Every good plugin maker has set up his items to 64 bit and all formats like stillwellaudio did - some years ago. Who has not ... And man, we are in 2017 and not in 2009. Especially in DAW, Video and tasks like these, put all these analog reminiscences and older 32 bit stuff in garbage can. What is not available in 64 bit, is not needed. Needed, which not means, that not some one wants that for what ever reason.

I ever hated the VOS plugs for their non standard UI and terms. Not self explaining, after a while you have forgotten what this and that knob is for and what happens behind the scenes. But that is a matter of taste.

Last, for me the plugs are to CPU heavy. Most other plugs of this type can do more tricks with less CPU load. Example: Fabfilter Saturn, a fraction of CPU load of all the saturation plugs out there, with endless modes and possibilities. BTW, the same with klanghelm.
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Old 09-13-2017, 02:37 AM   #9
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Like most I use 64bit by preference but I still have a few old 32bit plugins that I've not found replacements for, e.g. Oatmeal is a still a favourite synth. So far I've had no problems with them at all so they will be sticking around until either they stop working or I do .

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Old 09-13-2017, 02:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insub View Post
I had really loved using the VoS plugins as well, but once I switched to 64 bit I started having problems with them. Particularly, as the track count and plugin count increased (regardless of quantity of VoS plugins) they would start to become buggy and noisy and/or cause problems with the CPU. In general, they caused my REAPER projects to become unstable.
VOS plugins are made with synthmaker. I found that I ran into problems when running other synthmaker plugins ie. I generally couldn't use plugins by Sir Elliot in the same project - audio would not pass through if I had VOS and Sir Elliot plugins on the same channel. Sometimes parameters would randomly reset too. Basically I stopped using plugins made with synthmaker and synthedit at a certain point and most stability problems went away. Nothing to do with being 32 or 64 bit though.
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:19 AM   #11
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Synthmaker is no longer being made. Synthmaker was Windows only, and only produced 32-bit plugins for Windows.

Flowstone, which replaced Synthmaker, has the same limitations.

And on top of that, the developer has abandoned Flowstone, so chances are good that none of those features will be available in the future.

So basically, VoS plugins are dead. Upgrades and bug fixes are pretty much impossible to accomplish. The only way we will see 64-bit versions is if the developer starts all over again with a modern framework.

Even if they were available for Mac, I couldn't rely on those plugins without potentially screwing a client.
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:04 AM   #12
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I have a few x86 plugins still in my system.

One is Modern Firechainer, which is really good but now with Waves offering plugins at low prices I'll buy Puigchild.

I also have the magware x86 version of Dune, a very good synth but I think I can live without it, at least until I'm able to buy the full x64 version.

Could someone suggest x64 alternatives to the following plugins (freeware or cheap)?

Camel Crusher (distortion + comp + filter)
Antress Modern Exciter
SQ8L (emulation of the classic SQ80 synth)
T-Force Alpha (a great synth for trance music)
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:10 AM   #13
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I also have the magware x86 version of Dune, a very good synth but I think I can live without it, at least until I'm able to buy the full x64 version.
Or you could install Dune CM 64_bit.
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:19 AM   #14
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Or you could install Dune CM 64_bit.
Mine was included in the BEAT german magazine, and it is x86 only.
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Old 09-13-2017, 12:00 PM   #15
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Just my two cents.

I haven't done much vetting regarding 32-bit specifically. If a plugin doesn't work or crashes Reaper or otherwise causes issues, then I'll remove it. I've had a couple free verbs cause issues for me; one would randomly not pass audio unless I reloaded a new instance of it, and the other would crash the project.

Otherwise if it works, it works. The worst case scenario for me is annoyance, though: i'm a hobbyist who occasionally collaborates with a friend and works solo the rest of the time. No clients and their investments and time requirements to consider, or even bandmates for that matter.
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Old 09-13-2017, 06:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner View Post
VOS plugins are made with synthmaker. I found that I ran into problems when running other synthmaker plugins ie. I generally couldn't use plugins by Sir Elliot in the same project - audio would not pass through if I had VOS and Sir Elliot plugins on the same channel. Sometimes parameters would randomly reset too. Basically I stopped using plugins made with synthmaker and synthedit at a certain point and most stability problems went away. Nothing to do with being 32 or 64 bit though.
I didn't know that, thanks.

Well, either way, going all 64bit means that none of your free VST will be synthedit or synthmaker plugins. And, probably means they've been active in development fairly recently.

I'm using many less plugins now, free or otherwise. I spent an inordinate amount of time searching and trialing free plugins when I switched to REAPER. I think I've got my select plugins dialed-in now. Most of them freeware, JS, or bundled with REAPER. There is so much available for free now, it's incredible.

I feel like my MELDA investments were worthwhile. They keep them updated and I've never had a single operating problem with any version of their plugins. I have a couple of Hornet plugins too. Valhalla Vintage Verb is probably the most expensive single plugin I own. I think that may be all the paid plugins I have.
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mykrobinson View Post
I am currently putting the Dead Duck plugin set through its paces to see how it works out.
What do you think of these plugins so far?
Particularly, I'm interested in the Channel strip. I have been considering a channel strip plugin for a while, but I don't have or use one at the moment.

I was interested in CS-3301 by TBProAudio, but could never justify the cost of entry (yeah, I'm a cheap skate). I've been using Code Red Free pretty regularly now, though I wouldn't call that a channel strip, per se. I use it primarily as a clipper and tone shaper for drums.
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insub View Post
What do you think of these plugins so far?
Particularly, I'm interested in the Channel strip. I have been considering a channel strip plugin for a while, but I don't have or use one at the moment.

I was interested in CS-3301 by TBProAudio, but could never justify the cost of entry (yeah, I'm a cheap skate). I've been using Code Red Free pretty regularly now, though I wouldn't call that a channel strip, per se. I use it primarily as a clipper and tone shaper for drums.
So far, I like them a lot, however, it seems to me that Channel and Channel 2 don't actually process any audio. I posted in another thread on this forum to see if others are able to duplicate it. I was looking forward to that plug myself.

I load an instance of Channel and can see sound passing through, but it seems that nothing actually does anything except the input and output knobs
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:51 PM   #19
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Quote:
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So far, I like them a lot, however, it seems to me that Channel and Channel 2 don't actually process any audio. I posted in another thread on this forum to see if others are able to duplicate it. I was looking forward to that plug myself.

I load an instance of Channel and can see sound passing through, but it seems that nothing actually does anything except the input and output knobs
There's an on/off button next to the name of each section of those plugins.
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell999 View Post
There's an on/off button next to the name of each section of those plugins.
must have missed that

Going to try again.
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:02 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell999 View Post
There's an on/off button next to the name of each section of those plugins.
freaking brilliant! I had no idea those little dots were on/off buttons. Works as advertised!
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:21 PM   #22
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freaking brilliant! I had no idea those little dots were on/off buttons. Works as advertised!
LOL!

I downloaded. I'm going to give Dead Duck a try when I get the chance.
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Old 09-14-2017, 01:37 AM   #23
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I didn't know that, thanks.
It's frustrating actually. It's only the GUI of VOS plugins that uses the synthmaker framework. All the DSP code is custom. If only he had gone that way for the gui too..

Quote:
Originally Posted by insub View Post
Well, either way, going all 64bit means that none of your free VST will be synthedit or synthmaker plugins. And, probably means they've been active in development fairly recently.
Yes, going 64 bit is a good way to come away from plugins of that nature. In fairness though, it has to be said, that there are many plugins made with those frameworks that are perfectly stable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by insub View Post
I'm using many less plugins now, free or otherwise. I spent an inordinate amount of time searching and trialing free plugins when I switched to REAPER. I think I've got my select plugins dialed-in now. Most of them freeware, JS, or bundled with REAPER. There is so much available for free now, it's incredible.
I could easily do all my professional work with just free plugins if I chose to so, yes, I agree it's pretty incredible just what is available for free now. Throw in occasional free giveaways of paid products and it takes things even higher.
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Old 09-14-2017, 06:38 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by cassembler View Post
Some spin-like verbiage:
"Running in 64-bit only makes sure that you benefit from the most modern technology available" - https://www.steinberg.net/en/product..._cubase_9.html
puke. marketing types would sell love to their children if they could.
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Old 09-15-2017, 02:07 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Maxwell999 View Post
Could someone suggest x64 alternatives to the following plugins (freeware or cheap)?

Camel Crusher (distortion + comp + filter)
There actually is a 64-bit version.
I found it here:
http://www.audiopluginsforfree.com/camelcrusher/
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Old 09-15-2017, 02:48 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nizhny Tagil View Post
There actually is a 64-bit version.
I found it here:
http://www.audiopluginsforfree.com/camelcrusher/
Thanks! for some reason I was convinced a 64-bit version never existed.
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