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Old 07-23-2010, 12:40 PM   #81
Jae.Thomas
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Originally Posted by Guido View Post
@ JBM: about the looped half rake..by chance is loop ites on in the defaults page of preferences?
im sure it is, but i need that for other stuff.
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:40 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
Here you go, red lines on each take:

Bump. Can someone explain this to me? Thanks. I have no idea how he did that.
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:41 PM   #83
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Cool, thanks. How did you get there, pre-FX envelopes?
R-click menu (items)/Takes/Take volume/pan/mute envelopes
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:44 PM   #84
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R-click menu (items)/Takes/Take volume/pan/mute envelopes

Wow. That is a bit unituitive *(should not they - volume - always be on for takes?) but Thanks MN. Erase that complaint.

P.S. Can I make that take volume envelope - by default - always appear on all audio events since this one also goes up and the other one doesn't?

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Old 07-23-2010, 12:47 PM   #85
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Very true J. A calm and reasoned discussion is more likely to have the desired result. I think NoFish made a great point above about the behaviors that are lost when using FIPM. So when you go to FIPM mode to avoid some of the "bad" behaviors of the other mode, you lose the "good" behaviors.

It's a bit of a catch-22.
Agreed - however, we've been trying to have a calm and reasoned discussion about this for years...on (I believe Tallisman called it) a "quarterly basis". What I don't get is the interesting reaction of some "against" improving Reaper's takes and comping system. While there are workarounds, macros, extensions, what have you available to "fix" it or make the system workable, there's no reason NOT to support an overall core program improvement process.

Especially (as someone else pointed out) in the middle of this vast bounty of midi work that seems to be the only focus of the past, what, 50 (yawn) 'updates'. Oh wait, I forgot all the video editing and support updates.

Hmmm...anyone here using this as an "audio" recorder or sequencer?
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:50 PM   #86
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Agreed - however, we've been trying to have a calm and reasoned discussion about this for years...on (I believe Tallisman called it) a "quarterly basis".
the title of this thread doesn't exactly exemplify calm and reasoned.
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What I don't get is the interesting reaction of some "against" improving Reaper's takes and comping system. While there are workarounds, macros, extensions, what have you available to "fix" it or make the system workable, there's no reason NOT to support an overall core program improvement process.
maybe they are afraid to lose functionality they value?
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Especially (as someone else pointed out) in the middle of this vast bounty of midi work that seems to be the only focus of the past, what, 50 (yawn) 'updates'. Oh wait, I forgot all the video editing and support updates.
someone is gonna bitch about something - last week it was the midi love thread, now its audio love.

so its waves of bitching, and the devs trying to make everyone happy. Sounds like kids in a pool, honestly.
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Hmmm...anyone here using this as an "audio" recorder or sequencer?
both
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:50 PM   #87
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I'm not Kenny but....

1. Vocal takes (for example) are fluid. You may need to trim individual takes to different lengths for audition purposes, deal with subsequent or previous part overlaps, before choosing one.

2. Timing wise, same thing. One take may be perfectly phrased but a bit late. How exactly can you adjust the timing of it alone without moving all of the other takes. Again, you'll audition them separately in context so I guess you'd have to stop between auditioning and move them back?

It just doesn't work well, you have to split up (explode) all the takes and then you lose the "takes" ability. Then of course takes not staying in common lanes don't help either.
agreed...
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:53 PM   #88
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Wow. That is insane and a bit unituitive that those (volume envelopes for takes) aren't turned on by default for takes since they exist on every other audio part. Or is there a preference for that?

Thanks MN. Erase that complaint.
Why do you think I bothered Jeffos to make those actions to 'enabled/disable" takes envelopes? Reaper's native actions are toggles and they don't work well in some situations. When recording I have a macro for rec/stop and in that macro there is an action "show take vol envelope", by Jeffos so they show up automatically for each take.

Btw, I should explain myself here. I don't need to separate split, move, etc., for each take because I have takes envelopes and I can do pretty much everything I need with them. Please look at this .gif I shot some minutes ago while randomly editing some takes:



It may be ugly and unintuitive for many but I find this great and very very useful
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:54 PM   #89
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someone is gonna bitch about something
I think Confucious said that originally.
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:56 PM   #90
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thanks for that screen shot of take envelopes mercado, didn't know it existed - that's dope!
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:56 PM   #91
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it may be fine how it is, but i think improvements are great and should be welcomed, but obviously I wouldnt want to see the system broken for other users. Of course the majority posting are going to be those who have complaints
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:04 PM   #92
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2. Timing wise, same thing. One take may be perfectly phrased but a bit late. How exactly can you adjust the timing of it alone without moving all of the other takes.
LANES mode ON. after slipping it to the right place, LANES OFF.

(Lanes ON : all takes content can be slipped individually)
(Lanes OFF : all takes slip toghether)

i'd love to have a button for this, tho - like in Vegas.
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:04 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
Btw, I should explain myself here. I don't need to separate split, move, etc., for each take because I have takes envelopes and I can do pretty much everything I need with them. Please look at this .gif I shot some minutes ago while randomly editing some takes:
So in this case you are using "play all takes" and doing your comping manually with envelopes? That seems like a little more trouble but I get it, even though I still don't see how you might timeshift a section of a take - the one word Kenny talked about - without splitting it, and all the takes.

Thanks MN. Maybe you should do a video on that with real vocals and comp them so we can see it in real time.
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:04 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
it may be fine how it is, but i think improvements are great and should be welcomed, but obviously I wouldnt want to see the system broken for other users. Of course the majority posting are going to be those who have complaints
Yep even options for show takes in lanes and disable auto-split would be a huge start. Tick box in prefs and everyone's happy.
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:06 PM   #95
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thanks for that screen shot of take envelopes mercado, didn't know it existed - that's dope!
Yep, they're very cool and there are two nice and very useful actions for envelopes:

*Item: Solo active take of multitake item within time selection

This action give you this:



You draw a time selection over the portion you want to "leave" and run it, done.

*Item: Mute active take of multitake item within time selection



You draw a time selection over the portion you want to "delete" and run it, done, it's gone.
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:07 PM   #96
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the title of this thread doesn't exactly exemplify calm and reasoned.
Nope it wasn't - you're correct, but that wasn't the point of my post...we HAVE been trying to have a calm and reasoned discussion for years - regardless of the title of this thread. That was the original point of my post and was fairly obvious to any with decent reading comprehension skills. Your attempt to devalue my post by tying it in with the thread title is really silly in the end analysis.


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maybe they are afraid to lose functionality they value?
then they should clearly define that functionality and how exactly (detailed) it would be lost in the vein of a calm and reasoned discussion vice just saying that the "takes system is fine" or other such unhelpful additions to an actual discussion about how the system should or should not work. It obviously is not (nor has been) "fine" for quite a few folks for quite some time. We all want to make Reaper better...so let's give credit for proper motive where it is due.


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someone is gonna bitch about something - last week it was the midi love thread, now its audio love.
Hmmmm....funny how quite a few of the newer users lately have immediately jumped on the takes system as something that simply is not well implemented when contrasted with other DAWs. It doesn't help when they title threads with hyperbole (as you mention), but it doesn't invalidate the observation or discussion.

Speaking about "this week" or "that week" is a complete red herring, Jason, and you know it. A simple mathematical addition process of what has been addressed over the updates just past 3.4 is mindblowing in its concentration on midi (and or video). So it's not "bitching"...it's an observation of fact.

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Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
so its waves of bitching, and the devs trying to make everyone happy. Sounds like kids in a pool, honestly.
Again - it's simply an observation - regardless of how you try to derail it or push the discussion into the morass of name-calling, etc. Oh, and the devs are obviously on their own program here with their concentration - that's their prerogative, and I don't begrudge it. But this topic continues to surface and, for some reason, garners the same 3-4 naysayers that drive the discussion off topic and into the ground (and, unfortunately, sometimes into the lounge).

This can be a tactic of yours (perhaps unintended), I've noticed, by the way. You've been fairly instrumental or participitave to a number of takes-related threads or "why are we concentrating on video" threads being sent to the "lounge" as you continue to participate in the upscaling of emotion in the discussion subtly until you "pick a fight" with someone. This seems to be just the thing you are trying to do with my original post above and the multi-quoted answer that really trivializes the discussion - so why not just let it lie and concentrate on the issue at hand in the thread?

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Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
both

I'm glad for you - the midi improvements, I am sure, are helping you greatly. I'm genuinely happy for you (and others) for those developments. I would, at the same time, like some "love" (as you put it) to be shown to basic DAW audio development. That's not bitching, it's an honest and valid request. The shortcomings of the takes/comping system have been noticed and validated by any number of users, old and new, in this community - they deserve to be discussed.
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:08 PM   #97
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I think takes should stay in their lane until WE move them. And they should split individually when we choose to split them. This allows our minds to not have to readjust to what Reaper is doing to our work that we have not done to it. Just intuitive thinking.

However, I can manage okay with it. But it certainly is easier to work in a default mode where we don't have to use a GPS to find our little snippets.
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:12 PM   #98
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So in this case you are using "play all takes" and doing your comping manually with envelopes? That seems like a little more trouble but I get it, even though I still don't see how you might timeshift a section of a take - the one word Kenny talked about - without splitting it, and all the takes.

Thanks MN. Maybe you should do a video on that with real vocals and comp them so we can see it in real time.

(to explain "more trouble", it seems to me that if you're going to do that you may as well just explode the takes)
No, I don't use "play all takes" because I don't work that way (I don't record harmonies as takes in items, I use different tracks for each harmony). I use takes to record "clones" or "second attempts" of the same thing and I work with takes lanes off so I just see one take and go cycling through them while listening to them and pick the one I like but I use a lot of these envelopes because it's faster for me to "delete" a portion, or "boost/cut" a portion (gain), or pan a section of a take.

EDIT: Oh and btw, there's a problem there with rates or pitch changes because we don't have a way to modify them without splitting the item (yeah, I give you all that, you're all right about it) but it doesn't really affect me because I always end up with the "good" take while editing and then I change its rate/pitch if I need to.
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:14 PM   #99
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Nope it wasn't - you're correct, but that wasn't the point of my post...we HAVE been trying to have a calm and reasoned discussion for years - regardless of the title of this thread. That was the original point of my post and was fairly obvious to any with decent reading comprehension skills. Your attempt to devalue my post by tying it in with the thread title is really silly in the end analysis.
how can you possibly say i was trying to devalue your post? You are posting in THIS THREAD, right? With THIS title? Perhaps the issue is oversensitivity a bit?



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Originally Posted by vicenzajay View Post
then they should clearly define that functionality and how exactly (detailed) it would be lost in the vein of a calm and reasoned discussion vice just saying that the "takes system is fine" or other such unhelpful additions to an actual discussion about how the system should or should not work. It obviously is not (nor has been) "fine" for quite a few folks for quite some time. We all want to make Reaper better...so let's give credit for proper motive where it is due.
I agree but i think the takes system is "fine" whilst also suggesting improvement and welcoming improvement. Perhaps you should read all the posts before coming to a judgment


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Hmmmm....funny how quite a few of the newer users lately have immediately jumped on the takes system as something that simply is not well implemented when contrasted with other DAWs. It doesn't help when they title threads with hyperbole (as you mention), but it doesn't invalidate the observation or discussion.
no it doesnt, you are right. I never said it did, or i wouldnt be on here offering suggestions or improvements as well.
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Speaking about "this week" or "that week" is a complete red herring, Jason, and you know it. A simple mathematical addition process of what has been addressed over the updates just past 3.4 is mindblowing in its concentration on midi (and or video). So it's not "bitching"...it's an observation of fact.
you may have misunderstood my post.

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Again - it's simply an observation - regardless of how you try to derail it or push the discussion into the morass of name-calling, etc.
i havent tried to derail it, havent pushed it into name calling. not sure if you are talking to me here.
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Oh, and the devs are obviously on their own program here with their concentration - that's their prerogative, and I don't begrudge it. But this topic continues to surface and, for some reason, garners the same 3-4 naysayers that drive the discussion off topic and into the ground (and, unfortunately, sometimes into the lounge).
there is no reason this belongs in the lounge. And implying or pretending there's some kind of conspiracy is, well... interesting.


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This can be a tactic of yours (perhaps unintended), I've noticed, by the way. You've been fairly instrumental or participitave to a number of takes-related threads or "why are we concentrating on video" threads being sent to the "lounge" as you continue to participlate in the upscaling of emotion in the discussion subtly until you "pick a fight" with someone. This seems to be just the thing you are trying to do with my original post above and the multi-quoted answer that really trivializes the discussion - so why not just let it lie and concentrate on the issue at hand in the thread?
source please? I call bullshit? If you havent noticed, I am being pretty reasonable here. I just dont totally agree. Im sorry I dont fall in line. My biggest failing is that I keep responding to certain posters when I should probably leave them to their negativity (not talking about you). So I think it would be a bad idea to continue that in this thread. PM me if you have some kind of proof of my "misdeeds"

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Old 07-23-2010, 01:22 PM   #100
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I use takes' volume envelope for this.
Ooops. Just noticed this. Never mind.
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:23 PM   #101
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No, I don't use "play all takes" because I don't work that way (I don't record harmonies as takes in items, I use different tracks for each harmony). I use takes to record "clones" or "second attempts" of the same thing and I work with takes lanes off so I just see one take and go cycling through them while listening to them and pick the one I like but I use a lot of these envelopes because it's faster for me to "delete" a portion, or "boost/cut" a portion (gain), or pan a section of a take.

EDIT: Oh and btw, there's a problem there with rates or pitch changes because we don't have a way to modify them without splitting the item (yeah, I give you all that, you're all right about it) but it doesn't really affect me because I always end up with the "good" take while editing and then I change its rate/pitch if I need to.
I still don't quite follow. You have to split the parts if you're not using "play all takes" in order to select a part of another take to play right? I don't get the need for the volume envelope manipulation other than volume leveling, not for shutting off audio on a part of a take, unless that section of the song won't play anything for any take.

If I could see a video with audio maybe I'd get it. Thanks. It looks interesting but I'm not quite getting how you use it in the real world. Show me how you'd use that method to comp in one word from take 3 in with other takes, without splitting up or exploding the takes.

Good stuff though. Learned something new. Thanks.
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:33 PM   #102
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Nope. Because that is FIPM not the take system. And even in FIPM the take system is broken.

The take's system in lanes is about fast, single click activation of comp parts. THE FIPM mode requires much more manual muting and unmuting and such that makes it funky. Also, in FIPM mode you can still invoke the Takes system (which is my usual MO)... here is a video that shows how the same broken behavior happens on a FIPM enabled track: http://screencast.com/t/YzU5ZGM5M

Which brings us back to the fundamentals, regardless of the track mode (normal or FIPM):

1. Takes should not Rename themselves when earlier Takes are deleted from the stack
2. Takes should not resize themselves nor change lanes when new takes are added to, or removed from the stack.
3. The ability to edit takes (trim and such) independently of sister takes would be great.
4. death of auto-split (unless the three above can be realized)

Mercado's workaround is awesome, but if it is not a hack to approach the desired functionality, then i don't know what is. Reaper can be much more elegant.

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I think we have all of this already if we record in free item positioning mode, no ?
(correct me if I'm wrong)

If so, shouldn't the question rather be:
What would we like to have changed in FIPM (since it's almost "there") so that we're happy ?

For me it would be an easy and fast way to do comping in FIPM. (Also discussed many times which approaches could be useful here, eg swipe comping. Personally, Id prefer a Cubendo-like "only play bottom most lane" comping style, but that's just me of course)
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:40 PM   #103
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I actually like and prefer the Reaper method of selecting a section of a split take to have it play. I just don't like the way they're grouped and how they shift lanes by themselves when you split or record partial takes. It occurs to me that the first thing cannot exist without the second though.

In Cubase I use a key command to "Move to Front" to hear a section of a take (without all of the various muting and sizing) and of course the takes aren't all stuck together. Or just manually drag a section to front. I like the Reaper "selection" method better, just not the other stuff that comes with it, the splitting across all takes to allow the selection cueing. Here's the Cubendo take thing for those not familiar with it like Kenny.


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Old 07-23-2010, 01:40 PM   #104
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takes should stay in their lane until WE move them. And they should split individually when we choose to split them. This allows our minds to not have to readjust to what Reaper is doing to our work that we have not done to it. Just intuitive thinking.
well put. i agree.
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:48 PM   #105
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Yep even options for show takes in lanes and disable auto-split would be a huge start. Tick box in prefs and everyone's happy.
Some of it can be a preference but some of it should be in the Options menu.

The same way Ripple editing could be on or off.

Takes Locked Together = On/Off

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Old 07-23-2010, 01:49 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
how can you possibly say i was trying to devalue your post? You are posting in THIS THREAD, right? With THIS title? Perhaps the issue is oversensitivity a bit?

I agree but i think the takes system is "fine" whilst also suggesting improvement and welcoming improvement. Perhaps you should read all the posts before coming to a judgment

no it doesnt, you are right. I never said it did, or i wouldnt be on here offering suggestions or improvements as well.

you may have misunderstood my post.

i havent tried to derail it, havent pushed it into name calling. not sure if you are talking to me here.

there is no reason this belongs in the lounge. And implying or pretending there's some kind of conspiracy is, well... interesting.

Fair enough - I've always appreciated your knowledge of the program, Jason...and I'm glad you don't want this thread pushed into oblivion. The problem might be perception...which is hard to read on the internet. Just a thought...if you scroll up and take a look at your response to my post...the first multi-quoted one....it's fairly obvious, even if it wasn't your intent, that the post attempts to completely dissect and tear apart my own opinion and post. Like I said - a perception thing that needs to be watched from both sides in an impersonal medium such as this. It escalates the discussion emotionally vice concentrating it on the true focus.

For a quick example - your post that says (and I quote) "takes system is fine"...implies that anyone who is not happy with the system is wrong. Regardless of whether or not you contribute to the discussion later, etc., the fact is that the statement is a unambivalent one. Perhaps something like, "For me, the takes system is fine" would not be misinterpreted as a judgement on someone else's opinion.

Another would be the first reply to my post in which I agreed that calm and reasoned discussion would be helpful, yet we might want to not get our hopes up. Your dissection of that part of the post and reply that the title was not calm and reasoned gives (again) the impression that you are tying my response to the title of the thread. Not a fair impression regardless of your intent. This type of impression based discussion escalates, vice concentrates, the discussion's dynamics.

I'm not being judgmental, Jason - given your reply above, it sounds like you're trying to be helpful. I'm sure that is welcomed by all. I am (and I'm not talking specifically to you here) frustrated by the seemingly same group of a few posters who can endlessly work on and talk constructively and pointedly about any number of midi developments, yet they continually dive into these threads about improving audio flow and editing process with comments like "rtfm" or "here, it's easy if you just use this extension and then do this and click that and then go to preferences and....", you get the idea. I simply do not understand why it's so hard to not be supportive of our own collective discussion on how to IMPROVE the takes/comping system. It means quite a bit to a number of us...just as much as any given midi process improvement. There are quite a few "Reaper is really busted and really needs to square away this or that midi feature" type comments on the pre-release threads, etc. I don't see many audio-centric folks diving into that discussion telling everyone that they need to tone down the rhetoric or just deal with Reaper how it is.

I don't want to get into a "pissing" contest - so I'm going to leave it here and just post on the takes system at this point. I truly believe, however, that a good healthy self-analysis on "perception" with regard to post replies would be healthy for quite a few of us....myself included.
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Old 07-23-2010, 02:09 PM   #107
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Wow. That is a bit unituitive *(should not they - volume - always be on for takes?) but Thanks MN. Erase that complaint.

P.S. Can I make that take volume envelope - by default - always appear on all audio events since this one also goes up and the other one doesn't?
The other one goes up too.

Preferences > Editing Behavior > Envelopes

Volume Envelope Range can be = Inf…0dB or Inf…+6dB
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Old 07-23-2010, 02:12 PM   #108
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I still don't quite follow. You have to split the parts if you're not using "play all takes" in order to select a part of another take to play right? I don't get the need for the volume envelope manipulation other than volume leveling, not for shutting off audio on a part of a take, unless that section of the song won't play anything for any take.

If I could see a video with audio maybe I'd get it. Thanks. It looks interesting but I'm not quite getting how you use it in the real world. Show me how you'd use that method to comp in one word from take 3 in with other takes, without splitting up or exploding the takes.

Good stuff though. Learned something new. Thanks.
That yellow line you're seeing above in that .gif is the mute envelope. That's a real project I was randomly editing on (but yeah, it would be better if you see a "real" and concise editing). I use that mute envelope to 'delete' portions I wouldn't need to listen to so in this case I won't need to trim anything. I use the volume envelope to control 1) the whole gain of the take or 2) to shape its dynamics (micro-dynamics). I don't need to split takes either unless I need to change a portion's rate/pitch. I don't use 'play all takes' because I don't use "Show all takes in lanes (when room)", why? well I don't need to 'see' all takes at the same time. I just want to listen to the 'active' take and switch to next/previous if needed. I use "Auto-punch selected items" when recording so I keep all my 'similar/second attempts" in items and if the vocalist needs to record an harmony of that I use another track, using the same method. It's the same with drums or any other instruments to be honest.
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:40 PM   #109
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Some of it can be a preference but some of it should be in the Options menu.

The same way Ripple editing could be on or off.

Takes Locked Together = On/Off
If it was an action then it's the best of both world
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:46 PM   #110
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Warning, I will go off topic again. Skip this post if you mind me to.

It's kinda remarkable this slipped into a MIDI vs audio discussion for a while. Improved takes are not audio specific but work with MIDI as well, so I won't buy this at all:
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I am (and I'm not talking specifically to you here) frustrated by the seemingly same group of a few posters who can endlessly work on and talk constructively and pointedly about any number of midi developments, yet they continually dive into these threads about improving audio flow and editing process...
Though you say "seemingly", I think you get to some very false conclusions. Without wanting to further derail the topic, I'd like to challenge you showing me examples of the people you describe above coming up
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...with comments like "rtfm" or "here, it's easy if you just use this extension and then do this and click that and then go to preferences and...."
While I don't remember having read such anwsers (in take system threads) in the first place, I mainly find it interesting that you claim it's exclusively people that are thorough about MIDI features coming up with such nonsense.

Some people (if they care about MIDI or not, actually) like to come up with current possible solutions to what is quite commonly seen as flaws in the takes system (or any other given flaw in Reaper that comes up ftm). It's just a different approach, namely "How can I find a reasonable workflow with the tool at hand?" Often it's perceived as attack against the request/bug report or blind fanboyism. New is that it's corellated to sinister "MIDIism" as well now.

S&M take lane actions are a huge help, there can be no denying that if you try. Not many will claim that they are the end of wisdom, but they help get along right now and directly address the main issues people have with takes. They are by far not widely enough known, so I consider it a good move to mention them when somebody encounters those issues.
Instead of looking at it as offense against the take system feature requests or the evil MIDIist invasion, you should just check them (and continue to advocate for takes improvement from a much more relaxed POV ). Similar is for sure true for Mercado's approach (I haven't tried that yet).

I am also not aware of this:
Quote:
There are quite a few "Reaper is really busted and really needs to square away this or that midi feature" type comments on the pre-release threads.
I am quite active over there. My impression is that the Pre-Release forum contributers over all manage to concentrate on things at hand. The devs decide to work on several things in a pre release ride and people usually hop on the train that fits each one best. When the devs are at a certain part of the code it's of course tempting to plug a related FR that supposedly isn't far from the lines they work on. I am guilty of that myself, and by far not only in the MIDI realms . People stuplidly claiming "Reaper is really busted" are very few over there .

If you perceive some kind of MIDI vs audio crusade, rest assured there is none.

As someone who likes to talk about /contribute to Reaper's MIDI development I somehow felt obliged to set this straight, sorry for the further derail.

Please carry on.

Last edited by gofer; 07-23-2010 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:49 PM   #111
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If it was an action then it's the best of both world
Well…

Everything is an action. This is Reaper.
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Old 07-23-2010, 04:02 PM   #112
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Mercado's workaround is awesome, but if it is not a hack to approach the desired functionality, then i don't know what is. Reaper can be much more elegant.
It is not a workaround or hack at all but a set of options/actions included in Reaper

I agree, it could be more elegant
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Old 07-23-2010, 04:07 PM   #113
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...
It's kinda remarkable this slipped into a MIDI vs audio discussion for a while. Improved takes are not audio specific but work with MIDI as well<snip>
I was just going to say the same thing. I don't see this as a MIDI vs. Audio issue at all.

-Susan
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Old 07-23-2010, 04:21 PM   #114
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I have read a lot of suggestions as to how to get around the issue of takes changing size and swapping lanes here, and I've read a number of posts that suggest that if you do things "right" this shouldn't be a problem. What I have yet to see (and please correct me if I have missed something here) is anyone suggesting that there might be an advantage to having such a "mosaic" of takes and lanes. Is there any point to it (I sure can't see any), or is it simply a design error that the developers have yet to correct?
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Old 07-23-2010, 04:21 PM   #115
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I believe there is no issue at all...
On one side : people saying it should be improved.
On the other side : people saying ''sure! but don't undo what is already there...''

Takes-system works fine for me as is...
I wouldn't mind a few extras tho.
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Old 07-23-2010, 04:22 PM   #116
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I was just going to say the same thing. I don't see this as a MIDI vs. Audio issue at all.

-Susan
I agree that it shouldn't exclude midi but (personally, YMMV) I find myself making composite edits of audio takes much more so than midi. If you play a bad midi note you don't even need to re-record it, just edit it, so there is much less need for multiple takes and of course noboby sings midi notes. Most of my comping is vocals with the occasional instrument punch or composite edit.

But of course it does apply to midi also. I do think it applies (take comping) much heavier to audio editing though.
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Old 07-23-2010, 04:23 PM   #117
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Well…

Everything is an action. This is Reaper.
Not everything is an action, I'd love actions to add tracks to groups and set the flags but anyway back on topic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Simon View Post
What I have yet to see (and please correct me if I have missed something here) is anyone suggesting that there might be an advantage to having such a "mosaic" of takes and lanes. Is there any point to it (I sure can't see any), or is it simply a design error that the developers have yet to correct?
None What so ever!
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Old 07-23-2010, 04:45 PM   #118
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I believe there is no issue at all...
On one side : people saying it should be improved.
On the other side : people saying ''sure! but don't undo what is already there...''

Takes-system works fine for me as is...
I wouldn't mind a few extras tho.
Here's the thing for me. Coming from Pro Tools. I had to comp vocals for about 10 songs this past month. I had cut vocals in Pro Tools but I like comping in Reaper. Using keystrokes is such a timesaver that it was worth the trouble. So I quickly made some reference stems, imported all the vocals into Reaper and comped there.

In 4 of the songs, the negatives mentioned in this thread brought me back to Pro Tools to finish comping there. I prefer comping in Reaper but Pro Tools still has some advantages.

So I can either ask Avid to adopt the great features of Reaper's comping (and wait 2 years and $8,000) or I can hope for Reaper to do it in their usual timeframe.

But more importantly, I view this program from an outsider's perspective and think that the takes feature can appeal to more users without annoying those who are "used" to it and have found work-arounds.
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Old 07-23-2010, 04:51 PM   #119
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Sorry to ask but why some users call these native functions 'workarounds'?
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Old 07-23-2010, 04:54 PM   #120
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Sorry to ask but why some users call these native functions 'workarounds'?
Thats a very good question...
I dunno
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