Old 12-25-2018, 11:07 AM   #1
JaHe
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Default beginner reaper midi editor

Hello Everyone,
Please be tolerant with my belgian college level english
I'm new to Reaper and occasionally a sax player in a municipal brass band
I have a PC laptop and I don't intend to record any music through audio input device
My present ambition is loading into Reaper a midi file of a clarinet solo sheet and produce an acceptable semi realistic execution of it, tweaking what and where I can
Therefore I install a free Vsti called "sonatina clarinet"
I open the Midi Editor
I see the notes in the main window
I play the music which, indeed, can remotely evoke the timbre of a clarinet
In a CC lane drop down menu I choose "velocity", I apply some velocity degrees to a few notes and I notice an increasing of the .... sound level of the affected notes
After resetting the first CC lane I choose "expression", I apply some expression degrees to a few notes and I notice an increasing of the .... sound level of the affected notes
The Sonatina Vsti window offers 4 knobs A D S R that I take the risk to turn while the music is playing, the A button decresases the sound level and the R button produces strange noises, the other knobs don't even care
Could somebody please suggest some initiative for helping me progress towards my goal
Thank you in advance
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Old 12-25-2018, 05:58 PM   #2
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maybe this will help

first the ADSR controls

they are for:

Attack
Delay
Sustain
Release

and they control how the VSTi plays the sound samples it uses
for example, a faster Attack [turn the knob all the way to the left] plays the sample with an immediate and harder attack. Turning it more the right, slows or softens the attack.

you can figure out the others I bet...
R, Release will change how fast of slow the sound dies away at the end of the note...

Velocity will always work in the MIDI Editor.... more velocity often means a louder sound

Expression may or may not work, it will depend on the VSTi and if it includes that ability...

The VSTi you are using is going to give you a minimally realistic clarinet sound.... but ones that do give a real sound can be quite costly
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Old 12-26-2018, 04:25 AM   #3
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Hopi thank you
On the other hand I don't see how to record in the track, at each moment of the execution, the manually chosen Attack value, knowing that, as far as I know, the ADSR parameters are not visible in the CC lane drop down menu

The document "Reaper VSTi Routing Tutorial and Guide-2.0.1a.zip by hopi" looks interesting but it seems that the required sampletank is not free

Last edited by JaHe; 12-26-2018 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 12-26-2018, 06:54 AM   #4
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Do you mean the BigCat product?
http://bigcatinstruments.blogspot.co...ize-vstis.html

The ADSR knobs are probably available as plug-in automation parameters (not are parameters controlled by MIDI CC events in the MIDI Editor.

To check, click on [Param] just above the plug-in GUI and look at the FX parameter list. Here they are in another plug-in - yours will probably have different names:

>>> https://i.imgur.com/IgpkqBf.png

Now the fun bit:
-- set the track's Automation Mode to "Write",
-- start playback,
-- AND move the Attack knob on the plug-in
The "automation envelope" for the Attack parameter will be created.

Now change the Automation Mode to "Trim/Read". On playback, this envelope will now change the Attack knob. Details of these steps are in the Reaoer User Guide.

Here is an example of 3 parameters that I have created:



... and that's just the start.
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Last edited by DarkStar; 12-27-2018 at 04:11 AM. Reason: typos
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Old 12-26-2018, 12:41 PM   #5
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I think I get the idea
The Vsti is Sonatina clarine (bigcat) (32 out)
In the Fx parameter list I find 2 parameters : bypass and wet
But I don't find a "wet" knob that I would move for experimenting your process
I will Keep exploring with other Vsti
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Old 12-27-2018, 04:24 AM   #6
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Hmm, if there are only those two parameters -they are added by Reaper. So it seems that the plug-in does not have its own parameters for automation.

In that case, the plug-in might have parameters controlled by MIDI CC (ask Bigcat)

[Edit: the following is only relevant IF the parameters to be controlled are published as plug-in parameters. so if there are only two (Bypass and Wet) it cannot be used for the plug-in's own controls.]

As an alternative to using "MIDI Learn" to automate plug-in parameters you could use Reaper's Param / MIDI Link to map MIDI CC# to the controls. As in, for the Amp Attack):



Then you can edit events for those MIDI CC# in the MIDI Editor. Or you can Record them into the MIDI item when playing a MIDI keyboard controller which has knobs or sliders. Depending on the controller you may be able to program the knobs/sliders or pick different CC#.

Details of MIDI Link and MIDI Recording are in the User Guide.
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Old 12-27-2018, 11:15 AM   #7
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Well I cannot decently ask for more details before reading the user guide ...but thanks
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Old 01-18-2019, 11:14 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaHe View Post
"Reaper VSTi Routing Tutorial and Guide-2.0.1a.zip by hopi"
Very interesting - I tried with Kontakt and Amadeus symphonic - Thank you
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Old 01-19-2019, 01:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post

In that case, the plug-in might have parameters controlled by MIDI CC (ask Bigcat). Or you could use Reaper's Param / MIDI Link to map MIDI CC# to the controls. As in, for the Amp Attack):

Then you can edit events for those MIDI CC# in the MIDI Editor.
Clicking on [Param] doesn't seem to offer many options.
Anyway, before investigating more, knowing that ADSR knobs react with mouse when playing back a midi track, is it allowed to think that, in theory, if I spend my time inserting in the midi editor successively all the CC's possible, there will be at least 4 CC's activating these 4 ADSR effects ?
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Old 01-19-2019, 05:53 AM   #10
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Oops - part of my previous reply was wrong. I've fixed that.

Anyway, as the plug-in does not publish any of its own parameters to the host they cannot be automated using Reaper's automation features. The only way, if the plug-in responds to MIDI CC messages, will be to send it those MIDI CC messages, from a keyboard or MIDI item.

You will need to ask Bigcat if that is possible and which CC messages to use. Maybe it is covered in Sonatina's User Guide?
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Old 01-19-2019, 10:25 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
Anyway, as the plug-in does not publish any of its own parameters to the host they cannot be automated using Reaper's automation features. The only way, if the plug-in responds to MIDI CC messages, will be to send it those MIDI CC messages, from a keyboard or MIDI item.

You will need to ask Bigcat if that is possible and which CC messages to use. Maybe it is covered in Sonatina's User Guide?
Well it seems that sonatina's related bigcat instrument blogspot has not been active for a while and I did not find a user guide
Anyway I only use that plug-in for learning purposes as I will use Amadeus instruments in the future.
So I already learned from you that some plug-in's parameter can be automated and some plug-in respond to CC messages.
So what I want to do, also for learning purposes, (please tell me if I'm wrong) is insert CC's ,among some notes, in the midi editor / Event list and play the midi item just to see if the plug-in is going to respond to any of them, and how
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Old 01-19-2019, 10:42 AM   #12
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Yes, you can do that. It is probably easier to do in in the piano roll:



And I would get a different plug-in. one that does have plug-in parameters - then you can try automating them using Reaper's MIDI Learn or the MIDI Link method I described above.

For learning you could try this:
https://u-he.com/products/zebralette/

As well as Reaper's automation features, this plug-in also has its own method of assigning MIDI CC messages to controls.
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Old 01-20-2019, 01:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
Yes, you can do that. It is probably easier to do in in the piano roll
And I would get a different plug-in. one that does have plug-in parameters - then you can try automating them using Reaper's MIDI Learn or the MIDI Link method I described above.
For learning you could try this:
https://u-he.com/products/zebralette/
As well as Reaper's automation features, this plug-in also has its own method of assigning MIDI CC messages to controls.
Thanks.
Yes indeed it was easier in the piano roll, and 2 CC's had some kind of delay or reverb effect.
Zebralette looks like a well designed and serious tool.
It has effectively a huge amount of parameters, even too many, but I am leaning more towards conventional instruments.
Maybe you know about a good afordable saxo family instruments ?
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