Old 04-03-2013, 11:35 PM   #161
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No, turning off that option does not help much.
It is not even close to the preferred behavior.
Notes still stop playing at the end of item and new notes start in the beginning of item right at split point. All this means that playback is screwed up after splitting. And it is impossible to get correct playback in looped MIDI items.

jnif
I agree, but that's a separate problem. My suggestion was just for preventing Reaper from cutting notes in two when splitting items.

But yeah, Reaper has serious issues with splitting, looped playback and unlooped playback of notes spanning item bounds.

No offense to our intrepid devs, but these behaviors result from pushing the "treat MIDI just like audio" analogy too far -- or exactly how an audio person would mistakenly design the MIDI side . When it comes to notes spanning item bounds, MIDI items are fundamentally different from audio items.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:07 AM   #162
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I'm trying to capture the fundamental conceptual difference between the playback of audio and MIDI:

With audio, the playcursor has no notion of the future. It's like a tape head, reading only what's passing over it.

But with MIDI, the playcursor must team up with a scheduler. When the playcursor passes over a note-on, it must also look ahead and schedule the accompanying note-off to happen at some point in the future, because there's a good chance it won't actually see the note-off when the time comes (for instance if the note-off is past the end of the item, or past the end of the loop. Reaper mistakenly treats MIDI like audio, cutting notes off prematurely at item and loop ends.

In most cases, all it should take to trigger the entire note is for the playcursor to see the note-on. And likewise, if the playcursor doesn't see the note-on, it should almost never play the note. Again, Reaper mistakenly treats the MIDI like audio, triggering the note if the playcursor lands in the middle of it.

Notes are an all or nothing thing, triggered by the note on. I sometimes imagine them dangling away from the piano roll along the z-axis, because the playhead shouldn't see note-offs the way it sees note-ons. This is more obvious with music notation, because the duration is encoded right in the symbol -- in the note-on.

Last edited by medicine tactic; 04-04-2013 at 12:17 AM.
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Old 04-04-2013, 01:13 AM   #163
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When the playcursor passes over a note-on, it must also look ahead and schedule the accompanying note-off to happen at some point in the future
Amazing. Do all DAWS work like that?
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Old 04-04-2013, 01:18 AM   #164
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Just saw this video about composing strings.. it is with Logic.. but look how cool are the automation CC lanes. Wish something like this for Reaper.
http://youtu.be/Ce989ZsUWuA
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Old 04-04-2013, 01:36 AM   #165
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Amazing. Do all DAWS work like that?
To my knowledge, Logic, Cubase, Studio One, FL Studio, Live and Sonar all behave that way. Or I should say, I'm not aware of any (except Reaper) that don't.
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:39 PM   #166
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Hey man, great insightful posts as usual.

Yes a MIDI note has no 'duration' parameter, it simply sounds from the 'Note On' until the 'Note Off'. So any note, no matter what duration, has only 6 bytes (command/channel, pitch and velocity)x2 = 6.

While I KNOW you are on the right path and very close with everything you have said, I'm kind of glad that REAPER behaves like this --->

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And likewise, if the playcursor doesn't see the note-on, it should almost never play the note. Again, Reaper mistakenly treats the MIDI like audio, triggering the note if the playcursor lands in the middle of it.
I like this behaviour, it is like a 'chase'. We expect a sequencer to 'chase' back to the correct CC or PC value no matter where we start playback. Similarly in projects with audio and MIDI I want the MIDI note to sound no matter where I start play, otherwise I may not hear my chord correctly!

Just one more piece of MIDI trivia I'd like to bring up for the record:
It is known that REAPER sequences Note Offs as Note On with velocity=0.

This is a very common, and totally 'legal' way to operate from the MIDI 1.0 spec. although it apparently restricts the ability of some instruments, there is a very solid reason for doing it in that it allows MIDI 'running status' to be invoked.

Ok, I'm almost done sounding clever now, but 'running status' using Note On velocity=0 allows a MIDI stream consisting of only Note data to be reduced by 30%.

(Now we get the comments about how this is irrelevant to modern MIDI, how fast everyones RAM and CPU are, and how cheap disk space is...)
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:03 PM   #167
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I like this behaviour, it is like a 'chase'. We expect a sequencer to 'chase' back to the correct CC or PC value no matter where we start playback. Similarly in projects with audio and MIDI I want the MIDI note to sound no matter where I start play, otherwise I may not hear my chord correctly!
Yup, you're exactly right. I almost didn't include the "almost", but I know there are times and workflows where note chasing makes sense.

But if you're programming drums, or your instruments have busy or aggressive or just noticeable attacks, note chasing can do more harm than good WRT fidelity to the linear play-through.

So I guess note chasing should be optional, maybe on a per-track basis.

Quote:
Just one more piece of MIDI trivia I'd like to bring up for the record:
It is known that REAPER sequences Note Offs as Note On with velocity=0.

This is a very common, and totally 'legal' way to operate from the MIDI 1.0 spec. although it apparently restricts the ability of some instruments, there is a very solid reason for doing it in that it allows MIDI 'running status' to be invoked.

Ok, I'm almost done sounding clever now, but 'running status' using Note On velocity=0 allows a MIDI stream consisting of only Note data to be reduced by 30%.

(Now we get the comments about how this is irrelevant to modern MIDI, how fast everyones RAM and CPU are, and how cheap disk space is...)
Interesting! I wish I knew more MIDI arcana, silly as that sounds in this day and age. Or maybe it's not so silly, because MIDI's not going away anytime soon
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:15 PM   #168
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I like midi triggering note on in the middle... but it depends on each case. Many daws have options to select what you want to chase. I don't know if reaper has any midi chase options unfortunately.
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:21 AM   #169
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Many daws have options to select what you want to chase. I don't know if reaper has any midi chase options unfortunately.
Sounds like a 'V4 Midi Reafinement' to me ; )
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Old 05-04-2013, 07:34 AM   #170
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Default note copying

I'm used to working with midi in Digital Orchestrator Pro. It's an ancient program, 16 bit app in fact, so I've been checking out modern sequencers like Reaper, Studio One, Sonar, etc. So far Reapers flexibility looks best in my opinion.

But I still can't make the transition, as many simple things take more time/clicking than in DOP. What I miss the most, is how copying notes worked. In DOP selection does not only include the notes, but also the empty space (it has a start and end time). So you can select some notes, and some extra time and paste the whole blocks one after the other.

Another example is that you can select a range of notes on the entire track by clicking on the piano keys on the left.

Maybe it's possible to do something like this in reaper, but I wasn't able to find options that would enable it. Here is how it looks in DOP:

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Old 05-04-2013, 07:17 PM   #171
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Just saw this video about composing strings.. it is with Logic.. but look how cool are the automation CC lanes. Wish something like this for Reaper.
http://youtu.be/Ce989ZsUWuA
Yes i would want that too.

@mctb32 and yes to this too.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:11 PM   #172
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mctb32-

Check out "smart cut" and "smart copy" in the action list filter. There's a right drag marquee mouse modifier available for selecting notes and time.

You can control+right click individual piano keys to do something kind of like that. Don't know if there's any more to it than that. Funny shift doesn't do the whole range.
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Old 05-11-2013, 11:24 AM   #173
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@FnA Thanks, I didn't know about ctrl+right click. Still, selecting a range of notes should be possible.

At first I thought that the smart cut and copy don't work at all, but then I realized you need both time selection AND note selection for it to work. It's not as fast as the DOP way, but it's nice that a similar option is already there. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Old 05-11-2013, 11:51 AM   #174
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Funny shift doesn't do the whole range.
That would be an excellent FR
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:01 PM   #175
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At first I thought that the smart cut and copy don't work at all, but then I realized you need both time selection AND note selection for it to work. It's not as fast as the DOP way, but it's nice that a similar option is already there. Thanks for the suggestion.
You can select notes and time at the same time via "Marquee select notes/CC and time", bound by default to Alt+RightDrag.

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, you should be able to replicate DOP's behavior via Alt+RightDrag, Smart Copy, Paste.
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Old 05-12-2013, 06:10 AM   #176
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You can select notes and time at the same time via "Marquee select notes/CC and time", bound by default to Alt+RightDrag.

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, you should be able to replicate DOP's behavior via Alt+RightDrag, Smart Copy, Paste.
I was just going to ask about it. That's great.

I'm starting to realize that Reaper's main problem is not lack of features, but difficulty in features discovery and configuration by new users. Perhaps something might be improved with this? For example Reaper might monitor the actions performer by the user, and when it detects that the user is doing something that can be replaced with a single action, it might suggest that to the user, or even suggest building a custom action based on those events.
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:17 AM   #177
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I was just going to ask about it. That's great.

I'm starting to realize that Reaper's main problem is not lack of features, but difficulty in features discovery and configuration by new users. Perhaps something might be improved with this? For example Reaper might monitor the actions performer by the user, and when it detects that the user is doing something that can be replaced with a single action, it might suggest that to the user, or even suggest building a custom action based on those events.
You're right. I think a lot of heavily extensible, customizable programs have the same problem.
Partly I think it solves itself. The desire to change some little something triggers an investigation, which in turn makes them a little better at finding their way around the program in general, and leads to the discovery of more stuff they want to change, motivating them to further customization, and so on: the customizability is a sort of built-in incentive system that helps get them up the learning curve.

re: the action suggestion system, that is certainly possible. I once wrote something that did exactly that in another program. In practice (imo) I found the above scenario solves itself better than a static set of suggestions based on patterns of actions could.
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:13 AM   #178
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Default Virtual MIDI keyboard issue

Hi! I would suggest when using "Send all keyboard input to Virtual MIDI keyboard (even when other windows active)", don't let EVERY key to be directed to virtual MIDI keyboard. For instance, buttons as Home and End move cursor @ the beginning and the end of a project. So I would like to keep using them (and other system keys) with this option on. Really, you don't need Home and End in Virtual MIDI...
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:16 AM   #179
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re: the action suggestion system, that is certainly possible. I once wrote something that did exactly that in another program.
I hope they will listen to desperate REAPER users like me
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Old 07-15-2013, 07:01 AM   #180
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Just saw this video about composing strings.. it is with Logic.. but look how cool are the automation CC lanes. Wish something like this for Reaper.
http://youtu.be/Ce989ZsUWuA
I'm on Cubase and try to figure if Reaper fit all my needs. Advanced MIDI editing is necessary. Some of the features I need and didn't found on a first glimpse are explained in some posts or tutorials, but for this specific feature(s) I like to know if Reaper have equivalents to "automation CC lanes", e.g. to edit volume curves and such. Any hints?

I often "vertically" edit a bunch of MIDI Events(items?) e.g. orchestral brass and such, this is another feature I'm not sure how this is handled in Reaper.
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Old 07-15-2013, 08:46 AM   #181
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CC lanes in MIDI editor cannot be represented as envelopes as of yet in Reaper... you can use ReaControlMIDI as a workaround, which is basically a plugin you load on your track, you get sliders that you assign to CCs, and those sliders are then automatable from the arrange view (NOT the MIDI editor).

Probably not exactly what you wanted, but, as mentioned, it's a workaround.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:03 AM   #182
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O.k., thank you. That's a real pity as this functions are prominently used. For the moment I can't think of the situation to edit curves and values without the grafical interface and its tools.

If memory serves right I know you from VI-Control and for that reason I guess you also work with sample libraries? If that's the case how do you handle volume and expression of your libraries if you have no lanes at hands in Reaper, just work with the mentioned ReaControlMIDI?
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:03 AM   #183
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I'm on Cubase and try to figure if Reaper fit all my needs. Advanced MIDI editing is necessary. Some of the features I need and didn't found on a first glimpse are explained in some posts or tutorials, but for this specific feature(s) I like to know if Reaper have equivalents to "automation CC lanes", e.g. to edit volume curves and such. Any hints?

I often "vertically" edit a bunch of MIDI Events(items?) e.g. orchestral brass and such, this is another feature I'm not sure how this is handled in Reaper.
Reaper is regrettably way behind Cubase in terms of MIDI. What I miss most is Cubase's Logical Editor, because it can make a lot of things easier. Therefore I started an FR about 172 years ago to overcome this. The graphical presentation of this relies on Reaper 3 and is - errm, well - questional. See links in sig. ...and VOTE!!

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Old 07-15-2013, 09:08 AM   #184
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If memory serves right I know you from VI-Control and for that reason I guess you also work with sample libraries? If that's the case how do you handle volume and expression of your libraries if you have no lanes at hands in Reaper, just work with the mentioned ReaControlMIDI?
I just use Reaper's CC lanes as they are. They aren't bad, really. Just different. Also, since CCs are not continuous, but rather discrete events, there's actually nothing wrong with the way Reaper displays CCs (as discrete bars). I just draw CCs without snapping, which then provides me with a "continuous looking" stream of events.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:25 AM   #185
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Also, since CCs are not continuous, but rather discrete events, there's actually nothing wrong with the way Reaper displays CCs (as discrete bars).
On top of that I always felt it to be a bit confusing to use a curve, because, you said it already, there are discrete events instead of a continuous change of values. If you have to events connected by a line (or curve) that are apart from each other, say, 2 seconds, it would indicate something that isn't really the case, especially if the values differ enormously (e.g. first 10, next 120). Also, what would be the reference? The left upper corner of a block of an event (as it is shown currently in Reaper) or the center of the upper edge (no!) or the average of the with of such a block, compared to the previous and next in conjunction with the resulting slope?

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Old 07-15-2013, 11:47 AM   #186
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Thanks to both of you. I'll have a closer look at it. Would be a shame if I can't switch to Reaper instantly because of its MIDI editing functionality.
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:05 PM   #187
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No switch is instant, it's followed with a learning curve.
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:36 PM   #188
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That's why I asked before throw in some serious time.
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:33 PM   #189
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Thanks to both of you. I'll have a closer look at it. Would be a shame if I can't switch to Reaper instantly because of its MIDI editing functionality.
My question to you would be why are you wanting to leave Cubase for Reaper?

You're asking questions about MIDI capabilities. Cubase is known has perhaps the most powerful DAW for MIDI (with Logic Pro and SONAR close behind) while Reaper has a reputation for lagging behind the pack. The last couple of minor releases have brought nice improvements but the consensus opinion from reading the forum (I don't use MIDI myself) appears to be that there's still a long way to go before it compares to the best in that regard.

On the other hand, Reaper is fast, stable, flexible, configurable and for recording, editing and mixing audio it is up there with the best.
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:16 PM   #190
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On the other hand, Reaper is fast, stable, flexible, configurable and for recording, editing and mixing audio it is up there with the best.
If you work predominantly with MIDI, Reaper by all means isn't the best choice at all, but what Pattste wrote I only can underline.

For instance: I would never dare to use Cubase in a live setup, because I'd constantly had to worry about it crashing. With Reaper I never had concerns to do that.

As it was said before: There might be a steep learning curve, because a lot of things are done completely different, but if you get used to it you'll might wonder why other DAWs don't work like Reaper and it's very rewarding.

A good advice: Use the right mouse button!!

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Old 07-16-2013, 05:37 PM   #191
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My question to you would be why are you wanting to leave Cubase for Reaper?
There's a couple of reasons. One of them is what you stated already: I read more than once Reaper is fast, stable and flexible. The regular updates, bugfixes and the feature requests system with votes are great in my opinion. (Try to get a nice function for another sequencer - you can also go out and talk to trees.) Yes, Cubase is great but I had some hope Reaper would also fit my needs, even with tweaks after weeks of learning. What you all stated regarding MIDI confirm what I found in Reaper's manual. With that in mind Reaper won't be my #1 at the moment but I'll dig into it nevertheless.
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Old 07-23-2013, 11:27 PM   #192
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Default Default Support for Muse Research Receptor.

There are some problem in using receptor with reaper. if there is a default support for receptor, komplete 9, etc will add lots of goodyeesss,.... why there is no midi instruments built in?? 127 old school midi support and instruments will sure help lots of composers.. midi 127 midi II 256 instrument library can they be added?? what about presets in midi synth?? templetes in midi??
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Old 07-24-2013, 01:13 AM   #193
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Are you talking about program changes? That can for sure be done with Reaper.
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Old 07-31-2013, 06:48 PM   #194
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Would like an option to show last undo point in the MIDI editor menu bar, similar to the one in the main window. (edit. second monitor was succesful workaround)

Different color for loop points please.

Make it so mouse modifiers wont deselect notes unless specified.

Last edited by FnA; 12-31-2013 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 08-01-2013, 01:38 AM   #195
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Thanks to both of you. I'll have a closer look at it. Would be a shame if I can't switch to Reaper instantly because of its MIDI editing functionality.
I recently made that switch and am very happy.
Until now I am mostly importing Cubase projects into Reaper.
Maybe I will find one or two midi flaws in the future.
I also have FL Studio that I use for slicing and beatmaking.
Use it as a vst in Reaper, highly recommended. The fruity edition, with all the midi functions is not expensive, Imageline has sales on FL Studio.
I bought Cubase 7 elements to open my Cubase projects.
I recommend trying to transform a large project to Reaper, then you will see how great it works and Groove3 has great tutorials that will get you running.
Excuse me if I didn't get into the details of your questions.

Good luck.
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Old 08-05-2013, 08:21 PM   #196
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Default CC Values higher then 127

im not shure if it is possible, but i own 3 MIDIdevices that can send Controller Values above 127.
for example 128.
and some Controllers go as high as 255.

Those Values above 127 are described in the usersmanual.
for example 129 would be a function called "Channel Fine Tuning"
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Old 09-08-2013, 03:40 AM   #197
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Default Midi Editor: Color Notes by Ranges of Pitches

Hi
When you open a midi item in the midi editor you can choose the colour of the notes in the lower right by dropdown menu :
Color: Velocity
Channel
Pitch
Source
Track
Media Item
* I have a new suggestion to add in this dropdown menu :
It would be great to add {Pitch Range} where you could specify the exact ranges of the Pitches colours;
For example C2 - B2 Yellow color
C3 - B3 Red color ....
In this way we could avoid conflicts between the frequencies of the notes
-Open several midi items at once in the same midi editor and edit them at the same time :
Now this is possible with the new feature of Reaper 4.5 MIDI editor:
* support for editing multiple MIDI items at the same time
and specify a different color for each range of pitches for all the midi items opened in the midi editor to avoid conflict frequencies in the domain of midi
Regards
Mario
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Old 10-02-2013, 05:27 AM   #198
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1. autoscroll actions between arrange and ME are linked even when midi editor is set not to follow arrange. so if autoscroll is on, opening an item in the editor means i often see empty space instead of the media item or notes.

2. can't move notes past edges of media item. often selecting all notes in an item means i can't move them horizontally at all. even when none i can see touch the edges.

3. can't see note selection inside time selection

4. need actions to toggle cc lane visibility and media item lane

5. in the arrange i like to click to move play cursor and click in the ruler to move the edit cursor. in the midi editor, i'm can only do the opposite (click the ruler to move play cursor and click the piano roll to move the edit cursor).
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Old 01-13-2014, 06:45 PM   #199
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bumps
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Old 04-10-2014, 10:34 PM   #200
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if until now they did such a good job, we will certainly get more improvements in next udpates
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