Old 01-29-2017, 02:52 PM   #1
Ivo Sedlacek
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Default MacBook Pro 2016 - no 96 kHz for headphones ??

I am a bit desperate to find out that if I have a Reaper session in 96 kHz, as soon as I connect headphones, Reaper collapses a bit, sound is distorted , much lower pitch etc. When I disconnect headphones, again it returns to normal.

When I go to Audio MIDI setup, when connecting headphones the Built-In output reduces to only 44-48 kHz options, when disconnecting headphones , again back to 96 kHz

I tried my old MacBook Air, there the built-in output has full bunch of options (16 bit, 24 bit up to 96 kHz) and 96 kHz in Reaper plays without a problem with headphones.

Now, does it mean that the new MacBook 2016 costing a fortune is NOT able to play 96 kHz via headphones ? No, they could not mean it seriously ?? I hope I have overlooked something.

I am afraid not, because my son has the same laptop and the same behaviour: with headphones impossible to listen to 96 kHz.

Now this is a bad dream ((

Does someone use the same laptop ?
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Old 01-30-2017, 08:17 AM   #2
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Ok first thing i'd do is go into audio midi setup on your mac then choose 2ch-24bit integer 96000.0 Hz, then plug in your headphones and then play a wav file from either your folder or from iTunes..,

now how does it sound?.., if its still crap i'd be ringing up apple and asking them for help and complaining.

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Old 01-30-2017, 10:10 AM   #3
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Having myself a Macbook Pro Retina (mid 2014) running El Capitan without issues, I would guess, it's not the hardware causing issues but that crappy, buggy Sierra 10.12

You're running macOS Sierra, right? Which version? Or is it a mid 2016 MBP running El Capitan? Internal soundcard or external audio interface?

With the internal soundcard I have latency issues while recording. Playback is fine. With my Tascam interface no issues at all.
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Old 01-30-2017, 02:19 PM   #4
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Hi, I just checked on my new MacBook Pro 2016 with Sierra 10.12.3.
Same problem... as soon as I plug the headphone in, 96kHz is no more avialable :-/.
I really hope thats a software problem...

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Old 01-30-2017, 03:04 PM   #5
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I really hope thats a software problem...
When Sierra was released, a lot of audio issues were reported on hardware, that had no issues with El Capitan, so I guess, this headphone phenomenon is still an unsolved Sierra bug.

I would open a support request with Apple.
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Old 01-30-2017, 03:37 PM   #6
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No, it has nothing to do with Sierra. On every previous Macbook it works (96 kHz headphone output). On my previous MBP Retina 2015 it was just normal.

Yesterday I tried it on my old MacBook Air 2013 with Sierra. Worked normally.

In Audi MIDI setup you can see all possible output options: 24 bit - 96 kHz etc.

On MacBook Pro 2016 nothing like this. Only 44-48 kHz , nothing more ...

Seems Apple starts getting and evolving directly into shit ...
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Old 01-30-2017, 03:47 PM   #7
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It might be a hardware issue with the headphone jack.

There is a lot of physical switching in the jack to detect a headphone cable vs. a TOSLINK connection, etc. Maybe the jack is messed up and it thinks you're plugging in a TOSLINK connection.

Just a guess based on some devices restricting TOSLINK to SD sample rates.
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Old 01-30-2017, 03:59 PM   #8
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No, we have 2 identical MBP 2016 here This is clearly a new Apple revolutionary decision ... I heard that they did not connect the optical output with the headphone jack ... They needed to make it 0,001 mm thinner and it was very important to add 4 useless USB-C ports

See also here: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7777503
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Old 01-30-2017, 04:14 PM   #9
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No, we have 2 identical MBP 2016 here
I would suggest that this data point eliminates OS/software as a variable and specifically points to one of the machines having a hardware issue then.

If the jack is damaged/defective it WILL send confusing status to the system. That it forces the system to lock out HD sample rates follows incorrect jack status sensing.

Note that I assumed we were talking about a 1/8" analog headphone connection here. If this is actually about a USB connected headphone, then we need to switch gears and talk about how said headphones actually have a built-in audio interface and DAC that only runs at SD sample rates and it's actually this built-in audio interface that doesn't support HD sample rates.
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Old 01-30-2017, 05:23 PM   #10
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I would suggest that this data point eliminates OS/software as a variable and specifically points to one of the machines having a hardware issue then.

If the jack is damaged/defective it WILL send confusing status to the system. That it forces the system to lock out HD sample rates follows incorrect jack status sensing.
Nope. The jack only switches between optical/analog. If it's on optical, you get no sound with normal headphones. And as long as it is in analog mode, it should offer every sample rate the DAC is capable of. AFAIK (Still don't have schematics for these machines) it's the same chip that has been used for ages and it is capable of 96 kHz. So it must be the same typical Apple decision as the one that made them disconnect the optical in on the 13" MB Pro. It's on the chip, but the logic board is missing the trace. Must be a real economic decision

Quote:
Note that I assumed we were talking about a 1/8" analog headphone connection here. If this is actually about a USB connected headphone, then we need to switch gears and talk about how said headphones actually have a built-in audio interface and DAC that only runs at SD sample rates and it's actually this built-in audio interface that doesn't support HD sample rates.
That's how I understood it too...

AFAIK USB-C should support 96 kHz too. There is/could be analog audio on USB-C. Surprise he? I think that's the stupidest thing I've seen lately as there's also power and a very high frequency data transmission on there. But hey, it's cool...

That is, BTW, not Apple's invention. It's decided by the USB industry alliance, of which Apple is a member, but they seem to have lost all the sensible engineers in those circles lately.
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Old 01-30-2017, 06:09 PM   #11
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Yeah, I get that that doesn't add up to 100%. (ie. There should be no sound from analog if the jack senses optical TOSLINK.)

I was suggesting it as a possibility on the suspicion that there's a poor connection or defect causing confusion but still a partial connection and the system is in some odd limbo state from it.

Just throwing that out there.

I mean, if you have two identical machines with identical system images, that hardware I/O board is the only thing left.

Heh. Yeah, let's all sit back and watch (and absolutely NOT purchase) USB-C become obsolete! Just... no.
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Old 01-30-2017, 06:22 PM   #12
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The unknown quantity here is USB-C. I suppose if you put 96 kHz audio on the USB-C analog output, it could interfere with something. But that's a wild guess...
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Old 01-30-2017, 11:14 PM   #13
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Maybe it makes sense to involve iFixit regarding the headphone jack hardware question?
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Old 01-31-2017, 12:49 AM   #14
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This is how it looks and works in an old Macbook Air 2013 for $800 (and all the other macbooks prior to 2016). An the other picture shows how it works in MacBook 2016 for $4000.

I cannot get rid of feeling that people in Apple are getting crazy and piss on any serious users
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Old 01-31-2017, 12:59 AM   #15
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wow ok so apple have got rid of the internal dac optical connection to the internal headphone jack?.. looks like apple are really pushing for usb c.., so in saying all this i personally would buy a seperate usb dac like the apogee groove.., you'll get far better sound quality that way.

.

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Old 01-31-2017, 01:03 AM   #16
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Yes, having an interface is an option, but already a different story (extra box, you have to carry it with you etc.). Degrading the features of headphone output on the "best" and most expensive MBP ever is a straight way to shit IMO
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Old 01-31-2017, 01:06 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivo Sedlacek View Post
Yes, having an interface is an option, but already a different story (extra box, you have to carry it with you etc.). Degrading the features of headphone output on the "best" and most expensive MBP ever is a straight way to shit IMO

Yes i some what agree with you but you can't stop change.., and as i said having a usb dac like the apogee groove will give you far better sound quality.

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Old 01-31-2017, 01:10 AM   #18
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Yes, but a change should go forward and not degrading what was already a standard. And BTW - Apogee is not really the best way to better sound Most of other options sound reasonably better
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Old 01-31-2017, 01:22 AM   #19
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This might be annoying, but come on get serious, you are using an internal soundcard for serious audio processing?!

Use an interface and the problem should be non existent, right?
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Old 01-31-2017, 01:25 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Ivo Sedlacek View Post
Yes, but a change should go forward and not degrading what was already a standard. And BTW - Apogee is not really the best way to better sound Most of other options sound reasonably better
But it is going forward and i fail to see how its degrading?, standards change everything evolves.., apogee dac converters are top shelf.., go rme instead then.

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Old 01-31-2017, 01:37 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Aymara View Post
This might be annoying, but come on get serious, you are using an internal soundcard for serious audio processing?!

Use an interface and the problem should be non existent, right?
For making some editing tweaks in the bed or on a trip, internal soundcard is perfectly ok (I always did it like this).

What does not make sense is the fact that this degradation was projected to the headphones and not to the internal speakers (for sure, you can listen more seriously and more in detail on headphones).

I don't know what caused it - maybe they forgot or something like that ?
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Old 01-31-2017, 01:41 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Futur8me View Post
But it is going forward and i fail to see how its degrading?, standards change everything evolves.., apogee dac converters are top shelf.., go rme instead then.

.
If in previous models you could easily use headphones for 96 kHz audio and now you can only up to 48 kHz, isn't it a clear degradation ? (for double money ? )

Interface you could use always, of course.

Apogee is good till the moment you hear something better (not RME of course). Try Mytek Brooklyn or even Soundevices USB Pre-2, quite a different level as far as natural, detailed, full 3D sound is concerned. Apogee is always a kind coloured not natural sound

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Old 01-31-2017, 02:06 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Ivo Sedlacek View Post
If in previous models you could easily use headphones for 96 kHz audio and now you can only up to 48 kHz, isn't it a clear degradation ? (for double money ? )

Interface you could use always, of course.

Apogee is good till the moment you hear something better (not RME of course). Try Mytek Brooklyn or even Soundevices USB Pre-2, quite a different level as far as natural, detailed, full 3D sound is concerned. Apogee is always a kind coloured not natural sound

as has been said apple are really pushing for usb c so adding limitations to the internal headphone connection is crap of them i agree, but personally i have never used or would never rely on the internal headphone jack as i prefer the sound of a usb dac, the dac in the apogee sound cards is not coloured in anyway but we could argue about this all day which i will not do.., other manufactures may have added circuits for an enhanced sound which gives them their "character" but thats up to each of us to like or dislike.. for me the apogee dac is clean and perfect.

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Old 01-31-2017, 02:42 AM   #24
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Business Insider 2.11.2016:
---
Why did Apple kill the headphone jack in the iPhone, but not the MacBook Pro?

Phil Schiller, Apple's marketing boss, was asked this question by The Independent this week. Here was his explanation:

"These are pro machines. If it was just about headphones then it doesn’t need to be there; we believe that wireless is a great solution for headphones. But many users have setups with studio monitors, amps, and other pro audio gear that do not have wireless solutions and need the 3.5mm jack."
---

Regards
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Old 01-31-2017, 02:49 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivo Sedlacek View Post
For making some editing tweaks in the bed or on a trip, internal soundcard is perfectly ok (I always did it like this).
Yes, but then you don't need 96k, because it is a compromise anyway. It's anoying, yes, but not a real drama in my opinion, because audiophile audio processing needs an audiophile interface and not an onboard soundcard ... at least in my opinion.

I find the loss of the magnetic Mag-Safe power connection much more annoying, as the need for USB-C adapters too.
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Old 01-31-2017, 02:50 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Futur8me View Post
, apogee dac converters are top shelf.., go rme instead then.

.
Oh, I see, I thought you are talking about another box (like apoogee mini DAC that I used to have), but it is this one: http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/groove Hmm, that looks quite cool and small .. I may get it. I just suppose that it does not have USB-C and you have to go through yet another stage (adapter). Thank you for the tip !
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Old 01-31-2017, 02:52 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeckoLikesMartini View Post
Business Insider 2.11.2016:
---
Why did Apple kill the headphone jack in the iPhone, but not the MacBook Pro?

Phil Schiller, Apple's marketing boss, was asked this question by The Independent this week. Here was his explanation:

"These are pro machines. If it was just about headphones then it doesn’t need to be there; we believe that wireless is a great solution for headphones. But many users have setups with studio monitors, amps, and other pro audio gear that do not have wireless solutions and need the 3.5mm jack."
---

Regards
That to me is a very weak and strange answer by him.., many users have never used the headphone jack for their "pro" audio gear and have always used firewire usb and or thunderbolt sound cards/dac.

.

.
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Old 01-31-2017, 03:02 AM   #28
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Agree. Just another pure attempt to find some "Pro" features to justify the price ?

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Old 12-25-2019, 08:24 PM   #29
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Default macbook pro 96K

yes they killed 96K output on the last MacBook pro because "nobody used it"
according to apple.

I use an irig pro to listen to 96K files.
JL
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Old 12-26-2019, 02:49 AM   #30
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I use an irig pro to listen to 96K files.
Though it worked nicely on my iPad Pro my iRig Pro was a nightmare on the Macbook Pro.

I now use an Apogee Jam+ with much less hassle ... works on all devices, incl. a MS Surface Pro 4.

Thought I should mention that in case someone searches for a nice small interface for guitar and Hi Res audio listening.
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Old 12-27-2019, 02:10 AM   #31
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So it means that even on the latest highly celebrated 16''Macbook Pro 2019 you cannot listen to 96k sessions/files via headphone output ?? And is it called "Pro" ?? Costing a fortune ?
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Old 12-27-2019, 09:13 AM   #32
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I don't have one of these (because it's built to be disposable with the SSD even soldered in and just bluntly un-Apple-like). But disabling using HD sampling rate over it's analog or optical headphone output via software or the OSX install seems like a stretch. They're still going for ease of use in their machines. They just don't want anybody to ever fix or mod them and they apparently think people will re-buy a $4000 laptop every 5 years instead of using their old pro machines for another 10 years or jumping ship. Something else that feels like a stretch!
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Old 12-28-2019, 03:14 AM   #33
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I am getting Macbook Pro 2019 in about 2 weeks. If it again does not support 96 kHz via headphone output (while old Macbook Airs etc. naturally did), then Apple is going straight to sh*t ...
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Old 12-30-2019, 03:31 AM   #34
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I am getting Macbook Pro 2019 in about 2 weeks. If it again does not support 96 kHz via headphone output (while old Macbook Airs etc. naturally did), then Apple is going straight to sh*t ...
drop us a note how it goes.

I also need 96kHz for phones and recently retired my early 2015 MBP that had it in favour of a non-Mac that doesn't have it. but still debating of returning to Mac when they announce a MBP 13 with a scissors keyboard. but if it won't have 96kHz headphone out, it will be disappointing.

btw does anybody know if 96kHz headphone output is still on 2019 iMacs?
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Old 01-02-2020, 12:52 PM   #35
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Ok, so for MBP 2019 16'' headphone output at 96 kHz again works ... good ...
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Old 01-02-2020, 02:19 PM   #36
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Yes, but then you don't need 96k, because it is a compromise anyway. It's anoying, yes, but not a real drama in my opinion, because audiophile audio processing needs an audiophile interface and not an onboard soundcard ... at least in my opinion.

I find the loss of the magnetic Mag-Safe power connection much more annoying, as the need for USB-C adapters too.
The issue isn't really about choosing to use 96k or not. It's about being involved in a project in progress that is being done at 96k and being unable to do the many things that don't hinge upon the subtleties of what you're hearing, just that you can hear it at all. IOW, it's not about any kind of processing or making judgments about sound, it's about editing tracks, picking and comping parts, etc. Being able to pull up a project wherever I am with my 2015 MBP and doing the latter is a major thing, and to not need a single piece of extra hardware is a big deal. If I had a laptop that couldn't playback 96k audio I would begrudgingly get a tiny $100 USB widget no larger than an iRig or Apogee Groove. An actual Groove is overkill, as much as it would be to use audiophile headphones for editing in an airport terminal, as the need isn't to compete with audiophile converters, it's to run the project.
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Old 01-02-2020, 02:39 PM   #37
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An actual Groove is overkill, as much as it would be to use audiophile headphones for editing in an airport terminal, ...
96k editing in an airport terminal? Mmh.

Well my experience is, that 96k editing brings my 15“ MBP (mid 2014) on it‘s knees without an audio interface, but ok, I usually use several virtual instruments.
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Old 01-02-2020, 02:55 PM   #38
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Not to make excuses or suggest that there is anything OK with the post Jobs Macs... But Reaper lets you run the project at a different sample rate than the connected hardware interface. Precisely for situations where you want to edit stuff on the go when your built-in interface doesn't do HD.

Probably more on people's radar 15 years ago before laptops got 96k on their built-in interfaces. And... apparently once again here in 2019! :P
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Old 01-02-2020, 07:35 PM   #39
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96k editing in an airport terminal? Mmh.
It doesn't matter if it's 44.1k or 384k or $500 headphones or earbuds if what you're doing is moving files around. All that matters is that you can do it when and where you want.


Quote:
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Not to make excuses or suggest that there is anything OK with the post Jobs Macs... But Reaper lets you run the project at a different sample rate than the connected hardware interface. Precisely for situations where you want to edit stuff on the go when your built-in interface doesn't do HD.

Probably more on people's radar 15 years ago before laptops got 96k on their built-in interfaces. And... apparently once again here in 2019! :P
LOL, serr, forgot about that! I will need to remember that if my next one doesn't do it. I don't think I've given that function a once over. I was putting an album together last year with a coproducer and we were shuttling between DP (him) PT and Reaper (me) and he upgraded his MBP and bam, had to drag a mini interface every time he tweaked arrangements in a cafe, but I didn't have to.
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