Old 04-06-2006, 09:40 PM   #1
eidenk
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Default 0.939 Midi Editor

Great stuff IMO.
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Old 04-06-2006, 11:24 PM   #2
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cheers from the scum!
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Old 04-06-2006, 11:35 PM   #3
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BTw, updated it (silently) with better grid (beat and measure hiliting) and better scrolling stuff.

Now I run off to a wedding weekend.

-J
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Old 04-07-2006, 12:18 AM   #4
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Have a nice time.
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Old 04-07-2006, 12:40 AM   #5
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Hey - you had a weekend off last year!! You weren't supposed to take another one off till '97!!

Hope you get a rest as well as having fun.
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Old 04-07-2006, 05:18 AM   #6
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Have fun!
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Old 04-07-2006, 06:29 AM   #7
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A couple of features I could suggest would be to enumerate the bars at the top or bottom of the piano roll window. Also it'd be nice to be able to move the cursor from within the piano roll window, and for the piano roll to scroll with the cursor.

Otherwise it's coming along pretty exquisitely! I see the grid is getting better, too.
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Old 04-07-2006, 07:46 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffy
A couple of features I could suggest would be to enumerate the bars at the top or bottom of the piano roll window. Also it'd be nice to be able to move the cursor from within the piano roll window, and for the piano roll to scroll with the cursor.

Otherwise it's coming along pretty exquisitely! I see the grid is getting better, too.
I think it's called an Inline editor, Inline is the only editor I am familar with, as in Tracktion, so maybe Im spoiled, while it looks and feels very nice, Im kinda lost without having the cursor scroll across the notes to see and hear them as they are played, and make adjustments as needed, I know these are early days for midi, so perhaps it's on the to do list, I sure hope so.

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Old 04-07-2006, 07:59 AM   #9
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Some sort of cursor is indeed vital - but it's early days for this part of the program.
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Old 04-07-2006, 11:22 AM   #10
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REAPER .939 w / MIDI editing and some comments

About MIDI editing:

When implementing MIDI editing in REAPER,in order for it to be most intuitive and fast,one should take the "worst" possible situation and make it a very easy and fast job.I don't believe anyone of you will ever attempt to do this: to be able to create a complete MIDI track from scratch by hand (mouse) only,doing it note by note without any MIDI keyboard input or editing existing MIDI files loaded.But,if REAPER can do this thing well,quickly and with ease,then everything else will be a piece of cake. FL Studio comes pretty close to this,but not quite to handling this extreme situation.

FLStudio lacks inline MIDI editing,lacks a modifier key to change between drawing chords or single notes while in "chord mode",lacks a feature to input chords with the MIDI keyboard with a single key press when in chord mode,and an option to toggle between auto-playing the base note or the whole chord when moving the chord up/down in the piano roll,it also needs a better humanize,a step-sequenced gator is missing,the horizontal grid precision in the piano roll needs at least 4x finer grid resolution (especially needed for drums),no staffs view,lacks a good way to do LINEAR midi arrangement,pattern-based is not my cup of tea.Other than this,everything else is great.


The MIDI editor shows promise,but there's some major things that make it unusable (I KNOW it's still in alpha stage ):

- There's no ability to play back the MIDI track in the editor and no playback cursor.
- You can't click on the virtual keyboard keys and listen to the notes.
- I like to add events with the left mouse button and delete them with the right one,as in FL Studio (and ACID)
- The White color of MIDI events (notes) gives me a bad taste
- The grid doesn't differentiate between maesures and beats.


Also there are two most annoying things in REAPER that will spoil even the MIDI editing for me
(I wish if there's any option to change this behavior):


1. The multiple item selection with Alt+Right Click is very weird I If there was only an option to change just this to Ctrl+Left Click (as in Windows or other apps)

2. When selecting multiple items,I like items to be highlighted as you select the area,not AFTER you've selected the area and released the mouse button.The current behavior just doesn't make sense to me.
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Last edited by synth; 04-07-2006 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 04-07-2006, 01:44 PM   #11
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I got lost and confused in your post, very quickly not knowing whether you were speaking of Reaper of FL Studio.

After sorting it out a little bit, I imagine you speak about Reaper in all the following :

>> The White color of MIDI events (notes) gives me a bad taste <<

They aren't white. They obey to the color scheme you use as far as I have noticed.

IMO the midi editor should have its own section in the color preferences as the colors it draws from the main theme do not really fit it well.

>> - The grid doesn't differentiate between maesures and beats. <<

Are you sure ?

http://www.stashbox.org/uploads/1144440700/midiedit.png

>> - There's no ability to play back the MIDI track in the editor and no playback cursor. <<

Yes but I don't know if you have noticed you can loop select on the timeline and play this back. It gets updated in real time from the midi editor. Certainly it needs to evolve.

>> - I like to add events with the left mouse button and delete them with the right one,as in FL Studio (and ACID) <<

I quite like it the way it is but not quite so also. You currently can add events of any size with click and drag left button. But this would prevent a future possibilty of doing a "standard" marquee selection as it also uses click and drag.

Left click to insert. Double left click to delete (and single left click with a modifier key). Click and drag on empty area creates marquee selection (with a modifier key to force marquee selection creation over anything). Click and drag on an event moves selected. Right click remain as is and can be expanded with some extra tools or commands in the future.

>> 1. The multiple item selection with Alt+Right Click is very weird I If there was only an option to change just this to Ctrl+Left Click (as in Windows or other apps) <<

I can select mutiple items with ctrl + left click without problems as I would do in Windows Explorer.

* Little bug report : I have got apparently the same bug (on WinME) in the midi editor window that I had in the main Reaper window. I cannot right click in succession without first left clicking to discard the menu that was displayed.

Last edited by eidenk; 04-07-2006 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 04-07-2006, 02:18 PM   #12
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OK,I have done some more testing and here's what I found:

- Yes,you can draw events with the left mouse button,but you have to DRAG it to do this.The approach in FLStudio is much better: you click on an event or resize it,the length of that note gets remembered and every time you add a new one it draws

The best way to do this in REAPER is make it work the same way as in FLStudio.
Also,if snapping to grid is turned on,you can hold SHIFT and resize it freely in length,bypassing snap settings.

- Your screenshot looks OK,but here's what I get on my machine with .939
(XPSP2 with the default REAPER theme by Justin):
http://www.stashbox.org/uploads/1144...editor_bug.png

- The colors in the MIDI editor should be separate from the main audio app.If I change the white to green,the audio items will look like crap

- You can loop-select,but there's no cursor in the MIDI editor to keep track of the playback and I don't like saving to file every time I exit the editor.

- I don't like the idea of double-click to delete.Accidental double-clicks happen quite often and you can screw up things.
Right-click works better (and safer).

- "I can select mutiple items with ctrl + left click without problems as I would do in Windows Explorer."

I cannot do this on my machine,no matter what I try

eidenk,can you post the ReaperTheme you're using in that screenshot,so I can try it out and see if I can get the grid to look as in your screenshot?

eidenk,are you using .939 with the MIDI editor,or the patch from Justin for .938?
Or maybe .940?
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Old 04-07-2006, 02:32 PM   #13
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Make sure you have 0.940. Maybe that's were all the differences are.
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Old 04-07-2006, 03:17 PM   #14
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So it must be .940 having some under-the-hood fixes not mentioned in the changelog?
Interesting...(trying out .940)
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Old 04-07-2006, 06:54 PM   #15
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Default fast MIDI

I can also ctrl+left click to select multiple MIDI notes. I am impressed with the speed of the MIDI editor.

I agree with comments about in-line editing although optional would be best - kind of like making the MIDI editor dockable, hey there's another idea, make it dockable down the bottom, free floating or dockable in a track. The docked down the bottom or free floating options can allow for futures like editing multiple MIDI tracks in one editor. The in-line is far more intuitive and looks better in ACID, ProTools and Cubase than anywhere else, especially Tracktion.

This is a fast MIDI editor and once you get use to the mouse clicks, you can do a lot very quickly. Damn its fast.

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Old 04-07-2006, 08:42 PM   #16
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OK,tried 0.940.Here's what's missing:

- I would like an option to change the area (box) selection from Alt+RightClick to Shift+LeftClick for both Audio and MIDI editing.

It seems you didn't understand what I was talking about: not selecting multiple MIDI events one by one (that works well),but selecting a "boxed" area - as the Alt+Right-Click does now.

- It's not possible to draw a 1/64 event correctly.It draws a 1/48 or 1/96 item instead. 1/32 can be drawn perfectly,but when going smaller,the 1/32-size area resolution is divided into 3 parts,so there's no way of drawing 1/2 of a 1/32 event.
More precision is needed.For example,in FL Studio,when you hold the "Alt" key while dragging,you can freely adjust the length with very high resolution (precision),so even 1 / 256 is possible to draw easily. Very fine "granulation" is mainly important for drums.

- There should be horizontal dividing lines between octaves in the piano roll,like in FLS.

- Also,the black keys area should be a bit darker,like in FLS 6 : "View note helpers" / FLS 5 "Show black Keys"

- A quick quantize,without popping up the quantize settings window,as in FLS.

- You can't resize multiple selected events all at once,as in FLS

- There should be shortcut keys to transpose up/down by 1 octave.

- A paint tool is needed
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Old 04-07-2006, 09:06 PM   #17
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@synth : You did formulate it in a way that could not be understood by me because I didn't know you could do marquee selections already. Not even in the main window timeline.

Nice but why with alt + right-click ? I'd prefer to do that with alt + left-click.

Last edited by eidenk; 04-07-2006 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 04-07-2006, 09:24 PM   #18
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eidenk,in the piano roll you can now drag a selection rectangle with Alt+RightClick and select all events inside it.But I don't like this way of selecting.
In FL Studio,the same thing is done with Ctrl+LeftClick drag (as in Windows) and I find it much less confusing.
It's the same with selecting audio items this way in REAPER.I wish there was an option to do it the "Windows way".
That's why I want customizable keyboard shortcuts.
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Old 04-07-2006, 09:40 PM   #19
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I have understood this now and I also agree with you, I also think it should be left-click + modifier key rather than right-click.

IMO it shoud also be ctrl and not alt so that one could do a marquee selection and then add other items to the selection without needing to toggle mouse button and modifier key.

Both methods of multiple selection would be handled by the same key and button.

It would be more coherent, ergonomic and intuitive I think.

I would have found out by myself out to do it I think if it was this way.

Last edited by eidenk; 04-07-2006 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 04-08-2006, 12:36 AM   #20
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Maybe goes back to my comment a while ago that perhaps before v 1.0 release the whole shortcut scheme should be reconsidered - if necessary - in the light of the developments that have taken place all through the program.
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Old 04-10-2006, 01:27 PM   #21
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It's been 4 days since the last release of REAPER. Seems like something big is cooking up (possibly a full-fledged MIDI editor)
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Old 04-10-2006, 02:40 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synth
It's been 4 days since the last release of REAPER. Seems like something big is cooking up (possibly a full-fledged MIDI editor)
No, I was drinking my ass off at a friend's wedding.. now I'm back tho, and doing region support.

-J
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Old 04-10-2006, 03:03 PM   #23
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cheers, cheers!
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Old 04-10-2006, 03:24 PM   #24
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Drinking your ass off for 4 days?
You bum!

Jokes aside,glad to see you back on track (and sober)
So regions are next? Mmmm...tasty stuff!

Last edited by synth; 04-10-2006 at 03:26 PM.
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