ReaMote + REAPER

[Justin]

Just curious -- does anybody use ReaMote? If we removed it would you be sad? Do tell!

[Studiodawg]

Do you use it? I guess I'm just ignorant of what it even does...

[Justin]

Not so much in the last 8 years...

[SonicAxiom]

I'd be fairly sad!

[Philbo King]

I've never tried it. Might be handy for realy big projects, I guess.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by SonicAxiom

I'd be fairly sad!

So you use it? Or you like the idea of it?

[SonicAxiom]

Originally Posted by Justin

So you use it? Or you like the idea of it?

both and I like the idea of it being optimized by you in the future
I have adopted audio networking (Dante) in my studio, I'm using CopperLan for MIDI networking and I see a lot of potential in networking other tasks (like fx processing). ReaMote does not work with all my plugins unfortunately - for various reasons (licensing, compatability, ???). Would be great if some of the issues could be fixed to make it even more useful.

Is it inevitable that both machines need to have the plugins installed at the same location? If there was a way to simply outsource the calculation to the helping computer. Couldn't it just load the plugin files into its ram via the network connection to remotely make use of them?

.

[RCJacH]

I used to use it for a bit until it stopped working on any of my tracks because of its current limitation (limited folder hierarchy for jsfx, can't load samples in kontakt or other sample players), so I stopped using ReaMote and started using copperlan/jack with ReaRoute, and started using Airwindows and JSFX only for all effect processing...

It would be nice to have an updated version of ReaMote...

[mschnell]

IMHO, a way to run a Reaper project in a distributed way on multiple boxes via a network, is a really good thing e.g. to allow for resolving render performance issues and to be able to install and configure plugins on a single box while remotely using them from other boxes.

The problem with ReaMote seems to be that it only is usable when the used plugin is installed and identically configured on both boxes. This seems to be close to impossible e.g. for Kontakt with appropriate sample libraries.

So for me ReaMote never seemed to be usable.

IMHO a way to allow for Remoting parts of the projects that would be very compatible with the current state of Reaper and avoid such issues would be to allow for doing "Remote subprojects": A Reaper project completely configured and runnable on the remote box could be used as a Subproject item, not pre-rendered but rendered in a similar way as ReaMote works for rendering an effect. Of course Audio and Midi needs to be passed to and fro together with timing and start/stop information.

Obviously it would also be viable to have the same paradigm usable locally as "live" (i.e. not pre-rendered) subprojects.

Another option (not so obviously nicely integrated in Reaper) would be to rewire a slave Reaper instance with the methods already provided and remote the standard rewire API protocol via a network. I understand that there once was a "Remote Rewire" program available, but same is abandoned since years.

In the Reaper forums there have been several discussion on "remote subprojects", that I contributed to ....

-Michael

[Jack Winter]

FWIW, I like the concept, but have never used it, just tested...

[bcslaam]

I tried using it once but my whole reamote/fxteleport era is over. VEPro6 prevails in that arena.

My 2 cents: if it meant better efficiency or resources for other development i vote to remove it.

[cjewellstudios]

Really dig the concept and I have an older pc (still fairly powerful) that I could try to use it with. I just haven't dug in yet. I also can't say with any certainty that I will any time soon. I do plan to eventually though, my sessions tend be fairly large.

Also, I sincerely thank you for the amazing daw and conversing with your customer base

[soulranger]

I have yet to really dig into to this either as I am just starting to use Reaper as my main daw (ditching Pro Tools). Tests have been successful so far albeit with simple applications. Is there a reason to consider it's removal? Does it interfere with other operations? If not I would like to see it stay.

Thanks!

[Xenakios]

Originally Posted by soulranger

Is there a reason to consider it's removal?

It takes space in the installer...

And I wouldn't be sad if it was removed, it's not a very useful feature because of the need to have the plugins installed and licensed on each involved machine. (I know, it's obviously a massive headache to implement it so that it doesn't require that...)

[Outboarder]

Originally Posted by soulranger

Is there a reason to consider it's removal? Does it interfere with other operations? If not I would like to see it stay.

I would like to see it stay too.
if it's removed, can we install/add it separately from Cockos ?

[EvilDragon]

Originally Posted by Xenakios

it's not a very useful feature because of the need to have the plugins installed and licensed on each involved machine. (I know, it's obviously a massive headache to implement it so that it doesn't require that...)

Doesn't VEPro have the same requirement? Dunno...



Regarding Justin's question... if he wants to remove it from the installer that's fine, but allow a separate download on the website then?

[soulranger]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Regarding Justin's question... if he wants to remove it from the installer that's fine, but allow a separate download on the website then?

That would probably be the best option.

Regarding installing plugins on both machines, I could see myself only using this feature with the more CPU hungry plugins, thus I wouldn't have install ALL of my plugins on the second machine.

[DarkStar]

^^^
But you would have to authorize some of the plug-ins which may cause hiccoughs with the plug-in developers, using the same licence on two computer at once .

And, will you need the sample libraries, e.g for Kontakt or SampleTank, on both systems and in the same locations?

Now, if there were a way to see the other computers as integral parts of my primary computer. That I would like.

[Justin]

There's also a bunch of ReaMote related code within REAPER, which doesn't see a lot of testing from what I can tell. So it's somewhat of a liability, as we go and improve other parts of REAPER, we have to worry about breaking it.

[Robert Randolph]

I use ReaMote daily. It's a big part of my workflow.

[Robert Randolph]

I also wish you'd add cross-platform support like you said you'd do on gearslutz ~5 years ago :P

[Robert Randolph]

Originally Posted by Robert Randolph

I also wish you'd add cross-platform support like you said you'd do on gearslutz ~5 years ago :P

Actually, I'm totally wrong.

It was 10 years ago here: https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...07&postcount=3

[soulranger]

Originally Posted by Justin

There's also a bunch of ReaMote related code within REAPER, which doesn't see a lot of testing from what I can tell. So it's somewhat of a liability, as we go and improve other parts of REAPER, we have to worry about breaking it.

So would it be feasible to have this as a separate download?

[sardonicus]

Usefull now and then. But usefull anyways.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Justin

There's also a bunch of ReaMote related code within REAPER, which doesn't see a lot of testing from what I can tell. So it's somewhat of a liability, as we go and improve other parts of REAPER, we have to worry about breaking it.

Originally Posted by soulranger

So would it be feasible to have this as a separate download?

Based on Justin's response I don't think that fixes the liability he wants to fix. I can see his point, usage is very small but it's always there needing testing and checking with the possibility of causing regressions and extra work for something rarely used. My guess is other development/features would be easier/faster if they didn't have to always worry about ReaMote code being affected or vice versa.

I'd also imagine he wouldn't be asking if he didn't just run into this or is tired of running into it and wants to make a good decision.

[benf]

I never used it and I'm nearly sure I'll never use it.
I think EvilDragon's suggestion should be the best compromise if it's possible.

If the only use of rearoute is for huge projects, I think sub-projects are a good way to get around the problem. It's just another way of working.

[albatteur]

Originally Posted by Outboarder

I would like to see it stay too.
if it's removed, can we install/add it separately from Cockos ?

I think, this is the idea.

[DarkStar]

^^^
Not quite; as Justin said:

Originally Posted by Justin

There's also a bunch of ReaMote related code within REAPER, which doesn't see a lot of testing from what I can tell. So it's somewhat of a liability, as we go and improve other parts of REAPER, we have to worry about breaking it.

Even it were a separate download, that code above would still need testing / regression testing etc

[Arionas]

I tried sometimes to use Reamote with good and useful results with some heavy cpu plugins.
In my opinion instead of taking out Reamote, if Cockos could improve the functionality, that would be one more reason for endless love for our "game changer" DAW.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by Arionas

if Cockos could improve the functionality ...

I suppose even an improved version of Reamote could not get rid of the necessity to install the remoted plugins in both boxes in exactly the same way, which might be hard to do.

That is why a kind of "remote item" or "Remote Rewire" seems a lot more appropriate.

-Michael

[Reaktor:[Dave]]

Reamote works for me nicely with most effects and synths. I love the fact, that you can move FX chains between reaper and Reamote instances with one simple click in the FX chain window. Super fast and flexible - I don't know if there's any comparable solution.

VEP in comparision is more complicated and time consuming to use, which makes it more suited for huge and fixed setups. Reamote usually works very bad in those kind of setups, usually involving Kontakt and similar plugins, because you need to have your sample libraries in the same paths on all machines. Also, I don't know if reamoted plugins free your RAM on the main machine. Additionally, VEP allows you to run in decoupled mode, not storing your loaded Kontakt-Patches into the project file on the Main machine but on the remote instance. This brings saving time of your project from minutes down to some seconds, which you can't do with Reamote.

Bottom line: Remote is kind of useful in certain scenarios, but I guess most people in need for networked plugin hosting mainly use huge Kontakt setups, where Reamote in it's current form is useless. So to have users use it for these kind of workflows, some more features are necessary. I'd love to see that happen and can give more detailed info about this, if you want, Justin.

@mschnell
I didn't find those threads with your remote subprojects suggestions.

[amagalma]

I don't mind if I it got removed. Never used it

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by Reaktor:[Dave]

I don't know if reamoted plugins free your RAM on the main machine.

I supposed activating Reamote on an effect would be equivalent to "offlining" the effect locally which would do so. But I did not check.

Originally Posted by Reaktor:[Dave]

@mschnell
I didn't find those threads with your remote subprojects suggestions.

-> https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....ht=subprojects

but also:
-> https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....ht=subprojects
-> https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....ht=subprojects
-> https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....t=sub-projects

[D Rocks]

Never heard of it before today (2 weeks old baby on Reaper)

Basically by reading your posts I understand that you can use another computer to create more cpu power for a project with Reamote?

[EvilDragon]

Yes, it's offloading processing to another computer.

[D Rocks]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Yes, it's offloading processing to another computer.

Ok thanks... I wont comment further since I dont know anything about it but the idea is nice. I have my old computer sleeping in my closet...

[Alex_HS]

Remote was the first reason I bought Reaper, after I received the second Macmini Server-2012 through exchange. Unfortunately, only later I was able to find out that it was not completely finished (the meters in plug-ins don't work, etc.) and hasn't been updated for a long time.
I believe that this is a unique and very convenient thing and I would very much like to see it finished up to the end.
Those who need Kontakt with huge libraries, go and buy Vienna, this is the best solution personally for you. But for my case Vienna is absolutely useless, because I'm an audio engineer, not an arranger. I just need the ability to make some CPU-hungry plug-ins work on a remote computer and Reamote for this is the most elegant solution. Just finish and keep it, please!

[Dr Bob]

Reamote played nicely for me when I tried it on a 32 processor Microsoft Compute Cluster! 4 nodes, each with 4 mobos with dual procs! This was way back around 9 or 10 years ago! All linked with GB networking.

It had its issues then, and still does, but is an elegant solution to offloading cpu. But, with the advent of the newest range of multicores (remember when even a dual core was ace!), and high speed procs, the call for this functionality will have dwindled.

Sounds like looking after the codebase here is getting to be a pita for the devs, so I wonder if it is maybe time to deprecate it.

It's bound to upset some of course.

dB

[Klangfarben]

I wouldn't say I'm as advanced a Reaper user as many of the posters here but I would say I'm pretty knowledgeable in terms of advanced DAW workflow, especially VE Pro.

In my opinion, Reamote is a much different animal than VE Pro and in terms of workflow actually much better (discounting sampler based plugins of course). It really is a unique tool and the only thing that really compared to it was Apple Logic's Node implementation, which didn't really work well and AFAIK doesn't exist anymore. Reamote is currently the only distributed processing model that allows one to seamlessly inside of one session distribute processing to another machine. The fact that you can literally select which machine a plugin's processing is on is groundbreaking and it really is a boon to composers who have to try and re-create their studio setup when they go on the road, which happens more and more these days. The fact that if a Reamote machine is no longer available, the processing seamlessly switches back to the main machine is just straight-up brilliant. The only thing that comes close to that kind of functionality is Waves' Soundgrid system - which has many limiting factors of its own.

Does Reamote have issues? Yes. Does it play nice with Kontakt and other plugins that load samples/patches? No. To me that is its biggest detriment currently. I honestly don't care if I have to install the same plugins and authorize them on both machines. I would have to do that with VE Pro anyway. And yes, there are other issues besides that.

But I really would not want to see Reamote die. Even though the current implementation isn't where most of us would like it to be, it's still a great idea and really the only distributed processing tool of its kind where everything is saved in a single session and can switch back and forth between the main machine's cpu and distributed processing. VE Pro doesn't allow that and also can cause cpu issues when used in server mode depending on the number of audio channels you are sending back to the host (anything above 32 channels sent back to the host seems to cause very high CPU usage as well as spikes unless the buffer is maxed).

I understand right now there is a lot of deprecated code involved and it's going to cause issues going forward. I can't really think of a good solution for that besides trying to update Reamote which is probably currently not possible with available manpower/resources (maybe a kickstarter for a third body to help?) I also understand the argument with so many high core count/ high clock speed CPUs out there, it shouldn't really be needed. In my world, however the ability to unplug from my main studio rig, take a couple Intel NUCs in a carry-on and be able to both work on projects while abroad AND seamlessly load those projects when I plug back into the main rig is invaluable. I'd hate to see that ability go by the wayside.

I know there's probably not a lot of Reamote users so options are limited and resources need to be devoted to other things. But if we're having a vote, my vote would be to keep it part of Reaper and hopefully address it in the future when there is more time/resources available. Just my humble and not necessarily valuable opinion...

[albatteur]

+1. And what about a Reamote open source project?

Originally Posted by Klangfarben

I wouldn't say I'm as advanced a Reaper user as many of the posters here but I would say I'm pretty knowledgeable in terms of advanced DAW workflow, especially VE Pro.

In my opinion, Reamote is a much different animal than VE Pro and in terms of workflow actually much better (discounting sampler based plugins of course). It really is a unique tool and the only thing that really compared to it was Apple Logic's Node implementation, which didn't really work well and AFAIK doesn't exist anymore. Reamote is currently the only distributed processing model that allows one to seamlessly inside of one session distribute processing to another machine. The fact that you can literally select which machine a plugin's processing is on is groundbreaking and it really is a boon to composers who have to try and re-create their studio setup when they go on the road, which happens more and more these days. The fact that if a Reamote machine is no longer available, the processing seamlessly switches back to the main machine is just straight-up brilliant. The only thing that comes close to that kind of functionality is Waves' Soundgrid system - which has many limiting factors of its own.

Does Reamote have issues? Yes. Does it play nice with Kontakt and other plugins that load samples/patches? No. To me that is its biggest detriment currently. I honestly don't care if I have to install the same plugins and authorize them on both machines. I would have to do that with VE Pro anyway. And yes, there are other issues besides that.

But I really would not want to see Reamote die. Even though the current implementation isn't where most of us would like it to be, it's still a great idea and really the only distributed processing tool of its kind where everything is saved in a single session and can switch back and forth between the main machine's cpu and distributed processing. VE Pro doesn't allow that and also can cause cpu issues when used in server mode depending on the number of audio channels you are sending back to the host (anything above 32 channels sent back to the host seems to cause very high CPU usage as well as spikes unless the buffer is maxed).

I understand right now there is a lot of deprecated code involved and it's going to cause issues going forward. I can't really think of a good solution for that besides trying to update Reamote which is probably currently not possible with available manpower/resources (maybe a kickstarter for a third body to help?) I also understand the argument with so many high core count/ high clock speed CPUs out there, it shouldn't really be needed. In my world, however the ability to unplug from my main studio rig, take a couple Intel NUCs in a carry-on and be able to both work on projects while abroad AND seamlessly load those projects when I plug back into the main rig is invaluable. I'd hate to see that ability go by the wayside.

I know there's probably not a lot of Reamote users so options are limited and resources need to be devoted to other things. But if we're having a vote, my vote would be to keep it part of Reaper and hopefully address it in the future when there is more time/resources available. Just my humble and not necessarily valuable opinion...