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Old 02-19-2018, 07:48 AM   #1
fwrunner2018
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Default Good starter midi controller / keyboard?

Hi;
I would like to try my hand at creating some music of my own, but lack a midi controller / keyboard. I have diddled with Reaper's built-in virtual keyboard and some virtual instruments, but it is difficult, and not a lot of fun trying to play music using only my computer's mouse and keyboard.

I have done a bit of research at sites like Sweetwater.com, and found that I can buy a midi controller / keyboard for $99 and up. I am looking to spend not more then about $150 for now.
There seem to be many offerings in this price range; mostly 49 keys, but I also see some 25 key boards. I don't think I would need more than 49 keys - unless I wanted to map some of the keys to different instruments - I'm not sure how easy or hard it is to do this, but I would imagine that Reaper would allow me to do pretty much anything I want.

But as a newbie, I don't think I will be trying to play more than one instrument at a time. I will just record midi tracks one at a time for each instrument I want to have in my composition.

So I guess the question is which product would you recommend, and whether 49 keys is sufficient - or should I go up to 61 keys? Thing is, 49 keys is easier to handle, considering I want to have this keyboard on my lap, and don't have the room for a larger one.
OTOH, I probably don't want only 25 keys, because that would require me to be switching octaves more often.

So I hope I'm not totally off-base here, but that's why I am posting this query.

Thanks.

FW
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:03 AM   #2
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As a starter, 49 keys is almost certainly OK. Which ones are you looking at?

Will you need a MIDI keyboard or a MIDI keyboard/controller (with knobs / sliders that can be mapped to control your plug-ins, track volumes etc).

Can you clarify what you mean by "to map some of the keys to different instruments"?
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:24 AM   #3
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49 keys is a good choice. When i was looking, I tried the lower priced Nektar 49-key controller (Impact, I think) and the Novation Launchkey 49 Mark II. I bought the novation because I liked the feel of the keys better. I'm really happy with it. it integrates well with reaper. $0.02
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:11 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
As a starter, 49 keys is almost certainly OK. Which ones are you looking at?

Will you need a MIDI keyboard or a MIDI keyboard/controller (with knobs / sliders that can be mapped to control your plug-ins, track volumes etc).

Can you clarify what you mean by "to map some of the keys to different instruments"?
I definitely need a midi controller, since I don't already own one. It seems to make the most sense to get a combination controller and keyboard, and that is what seems to be the standard.
For knobs/sliders, I'm not sure. I can make adjustments in the plug-ins themselves, but I think it would be convenient to have some of the controls available right on the keyboard.

Mapping? Maybe I used the wrong term. What I am referring to is programming the controller / keyboard to control more than one virtual instrument at the same time. I might want to have most of the keys assigned to a piano, and several keys to drums. But the more I think about it, the less I believe that is something I will be doing. I can't imagine myself trying to play more than one instrument at the same time. It makes more sense to record each instrument on a separate track, doesn't it?

One thing I find incredibly cumbersome is trying to play drums on the virtual keyboard. The different drums in "ErsDrums" for example are mapped to a scattering of keys across the mid scale. If I could map those to a more logical grouping it would make selecting the right sound easier.
Then again, if I really wanted to play drums, I guess I would buy a separate drum pad and plug it into the midi controller / keyboard that I want to buy now.
But that won't come for a while - until I get the feel and the hang of creating music.

In any case, I have a lot of playing and studying to do before I am going to even attempt to create a "real" piece of music.
I am still familiarizing myself with Reaper and its unlimited capabilities.
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:27 AM   #5
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buy used and avoid akai (bad support, history of hardware flaws in multiple products). novation launch products are pretty good even though they haven't given us the ability to edit the launchpad pro's lower analog read note-on threshold.
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:30 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fwrunner2018 View Post
Mapping? Maybe I used the wrong term. What I am referring to is programming the controller / keyboard to control more than one virtual instrument at the same time. I might want to have most of the keys assigned to a piano, and several keys to drums. But the more I think about it, the less I believe that is something I will be doing. I can't imagine myself trying to play more than one instrument at the same time. It makes more sense to record each instrument on a separate track, doesn't it?
Yes, one instrument at a time will be much easier. Having said that, you could use a MIDI Filter as an Input FX in Reaper, to pass one range of notes to one track and another range to another track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fwrunner2018 View Post
One thing I find incredibly cumbersome is trying to play drums on the virtual keyboard. The different drums in "ErsDrums" for example are mapped to a scattering of keys across the mid scale. If I could map those to a more logical grouping it would make selecting the right sound easier.
I do not know ErsDrums but many drum instruments use GM ("General MIDI") mapping, from the Kick on B0 to a Ride Cymbal on B2; other instruments use different mappings, but you could re-map them using a MIDI Mapper FX (I like code Fn42's note mapper).

Quote:
Originally Posted by fwrunner2018 View Post
Then again, if I really wanted to play drums, I guess I would buy a separate drum pad and plug it into the midi controller / keyboard that I want to buy now. But that won't come for a while - until I get the feel and the hang of creating music.
Good idea - experiment for the least cost possible and look around, then you'll be in a better position to decide what gear you need (but that can be a never-ending quest ).


Quote:
Originally Posted by fwrunner2018 View Post
In any case, I have a lot of playing and studying to do before I am going to even attempt to create a "real" piece of music.
I am still familiarizing myself with Reaper and its unlimited capabilities.
Do NOT try to learn all Reaper's features in advance. Pick something that you want to do, give it a go, and if you get stuck, check out the User Guide or come to the forum and ask.
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Old 02-19-2018, 03:55 PM   #7
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Thanks for the good info guys;
I was thinking about buying used, but I don't feel comfortable with face to face transactions like Craig's list. I prefer Ebay. That said, I realize that I won't get the advantage of a 'hands-on' demo. I don't really have a problem with that. I have purchased a lot of different types (not musical) equipment without getting to play with it first, and have not been disappointed. That's one reason I come into forums like this one. I know that I can trust those who own the equipment to provide me with the info I need to make a good choice.
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Old 02-20-2018, 08:39 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_t View Post
49 keys is a good choice. When i was looking, I tried the lower priced Nektar 49-key controller (Impact, I think) and the Novation Launchkey 49 Mark II. I bought the novation because I liked the feel of the keys better. I'm really happy with it. it integrates well with reaper. $0.02
I like what I've been reading about the Novation Launchkey 49. Not sure if what I am seeing is the same as what you have, as there is no "Mark II" in the title.
Amongst the good reviews for this product, I read a couple of bad ones as well, on the Sweetwater site. The bad reviews were most likely user issues and not related to the product itself. One said that it was impossible to get all the sliders and knobs to work with Garage Band, as the product is set up for Ableton. But from what I read, the keys and controls are mappable to any DAW. So I think it's just another example of users who have issues with following instructions and/or other problems with the DAW or computer OS itself.

I found one on Ebay for $99 + $20 shipping, but I'm not sure I want to buy a used one considering that I will get no warranty, and I am not particularly fond of used equipment.
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Old 02-20-2018, 04:43 PM   #9
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I know somebody above said don't go with Akai, but I have been using the MPK 25 key for over 2 years with no problems...and better support than I've gotten from other products. They make a 49 key as well. Better pad and key feel than some others I looked at. Mine came with some nice software as well.
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Old 02-21-2018, 06:19 PM   #10
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When it comes to getting the most functionality with a midi controller/keyboard in Reaper, which one is the best?
I am reading about issues between Novation and Reaper, but all of those posts are at least 3 years old.
Has anything changed with Reaper upgrades?

I am still liking the Novation Launchkey 49, but not sure whether it is the best choice for Reaper. I don't particularly enjoy the thought of having some functions on the keyboard that will not work in Reaper.

OTOH, I can do some coding myself, if the software is the real issue.
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Old 02-21-2018, 06:27 PM   #11
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Pretty much all MIDI keyboards are junk since the good keybeds go to synths. Just the buy the cheapest used one you can find with the amount of keys you need. Then you'll learn what you really need, what crap you will tolerate, etc., and find the keyboard you're willing to live with.
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Old 02-22-2018, 04:38 AM   #12
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I agree with the modern keyboard-trashing. Keybeds are awful. I'm struggling with half-working Axiom 49 1st gen. Its a deep controller but it works half of the time and some keys are velocity 127 always. People say its one of the nicest keybeds around.

But I'm really salivating on impact lx+ 49 . It seems like a perfect combination with Reaper as it has deeper integration than most other gear. For laying sketches it seems perferct
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Old 02-22-2018, 06:04 AM   #13
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Does the meaning of 'trashy' mean that the keyboard is a bad design that will not work perfectly out of the box, or do they deteriorate with use?
This concerns me, since I am considering buying used.

That said, I still believe that any keyboard is going to work better than using my QWERTY keyboard!

Quote:
But I'm really salivating on impact lx+ 49 . It seems like a perfect combination with Reaper as it has deeper integration than most other gear. For laying sketches it seems perferct
The Nektar Impact lx 49 is the only keyboard I have seen that includes Reaper in its list of pre-mapped configurations. And I read some good reviews of Nektar. I can buy that one bran-new from Sweetwater for $160.

Last edited by fwrunner2018; 02-22-2018 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:01 AM   #14
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I have a Nektar Impact GX61 here (without the knobs) - the keys seems fine to me (but I am not a piano player).
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Old 02-23-2018, 06:15 AM   #15
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'Thrash' means - compare action side by side of Yamaha DX7IID and ,say any M-audio controlled. It gets even more ridiculous than that! Roland Juno-G and Roland XP50. Compare Korg M1 and Korg Kross - same. But at the same time Korg Kronos is probably better than anything that was before. I'm talking pure action. If you need to punch in parts - go with functionality (nektar wins here). If you want keyboard with working release velocity you'll have to look really hard (almost none modern keyboards send release velocity - ridiculous!). It reflects the overal music change - more and more focus on production/sound tweaks and less actual performance (nuance/unquantized). Also I found that modern keyboards (even digital pianos) do not send true 127 values of velocity - there are dead zones. For example its either 0 or 20 and nothing in-between. Also 20-50 are only 5 - 10 values. On the other hand Alesis Quadrasynth (original) sends true 7-bit velocity (all 127 values are available), AND POLY AFTERTOUCH!
Summary:
If you need cheap and no fuss: Go with nectar. Probably you can go with modern Oxygen or any brand really. They all have more or less the same. I can say, that old axiom 1st gen is too old and after 10 years they fall apart. Integration is nonexistent, but you can program whatever you want. It still works OK with ableton by the way. I like recording fast demos with ableton/Axiom actually. Novation Remote SL/x-station is great.
If you want to upgrade to more professional level: either go with all in one solution like NI S88 or maybe Arturia 88, or even M-Audio/Oxygen 88 key. . Or you can get some of the unbreakable oldies like Yamaha KX88 or studiologic 88 and separate DAW controller: from cheap nanokontrol which should be configured to death until it does what you want, or just buy Panorama P1, Faderport, Logic Control, Projectmix I/O, Tascam FW.
Alternatives: novation Ultranova,x-station, xiosynth. All in one thing - the best thing that happened to me gig-wise
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Old 02-23-2018, 08:48 AM   #16
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Indirect; Thanks for the information. I guess we can't expect 'professional' quality equipment at consumer prices. For people like me, who just want to 'dabble' with creating their own music, it is great that we can get something very affordable to see what we can do. There is no way I can do anything with the QWERTY keyboard and Reaper's virtual keyboard, unless I can re-map the keys to my QWERTY so that it at least makes some sense to me. That said, I very much doubt I would pursue if that is all I have to work with.

I had been watching a couple of used Novation Launchkey 49's on Ebay, but now believe that the Nektar Impact LX49+ would be a better choice for Reaper.
At $159 I think it's a fair price, and I am sure it will serve my needs for now.
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