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Old 02-01-2013, 02:16 AM   #1
hmedia16
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Default Which MIDI keyboard

I use Reaper and am looking to invest soon in a MIDI controller keyboard - ideally being able to control some parts of Reaper but definitely to use for sounds.

I have a top budget of £200 and want at least 61 keys.

Any suggestions?
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:58 AM   #2
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I have been reading through LOTS of threads on this very subject, both here and on Gear Slutz, as I too am in the market.

I want a 61 key minimum and right now the Behringer 610 is looking like MY best bet. 115UK pounds is a goo dprice for me.
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:27 AM   #3
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You might also look at some of the "consumer" grade keyboards with sounds. Some of these digital pianos and synths are a great value. Plus have zero latency and are fun to play without a computer.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:17 AM   #4
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I want one to work with my Focusrite Scarlett 18i6. The behringer looks good but only has one MIDI out but my Focusrite interface has an in and an out...seems odd?
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:35 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weltonmark View Post
I want one to work with my Focusrite Scarlett 18i6. The behringer looks good but only has one MIDI out but my Focusrite interface has an in and an out...seems odd?
No,it's not odd.
The Behringer 610,like most modern controllers,has USB for MIDI direct to your computer - so you don't need to use a MIDI cable to send the MIDI to your Scarlett (although you can if you like).

The Midi OUT from the 610 can be used to control external MIDI hardware,
as can the MIDI OUT from your Scarlett.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:44 AM   #6
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for those features in that price range the M-Audio Oxygen 61 seems to be one of the only choices (in my humble opinion).

if you're willing to go down to 49 keys I think the samson graphite 49 looks pretty amazing for the price as well as the Alesis QX49.

If I was in your shoes I'd get a budget "bare bones" 61 key now and a used behringer BCF2000 later.

That being said, I should mention that I personally don't see the point in non motorized faders. I never use the controls on my radium49 because it's just kind of toylike to touch a fader and have it throw the setting off in each session vs. having automatic recall. It was fun for a little while but then it's just annoying and not worth the effort to spend time mapping everything to a knob that has no memory of where it was set in the first place. You're mileage may vary, but consider yourself warned

if you really don't think it's going to be an issue, you may as well get a used radium 61. I see one right now on ebay for $99. 61 keys, 8 knobs, 8 faders, 99 channels, and all that other good stuff. I really don't see a reason to buy something new when it's got everything all the 'new shit' has minus drum pads and possibly transport controls(though most new controllers with pads will be out of reach for $199 anyway)

the Novation Launchkey 61 is worth looking at too. it might be just out of reach budget wise though. I am basically taking US prices and adding some random extra cash to approximate UK prices cause I've heard everything is more expensive across the pond.

Last edited by pixeltarian; 02-02-2013 at 03:08 AM.
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:02 AM   #7
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So did they ever sort out the driver issues with the radium?

P.S. My local store is recommending the Alesis Q61 on a bang per buck basis for a really rudimentary keyboard, which is what I need. Got to go in and play one though.

P.P.S. That maudio one doesn't have USB AND MIDI so out for me. I still play out using an external MIDI module sometimes.

Last edited by ivansc; 02-02-2013 at 05:13 AM.
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Old 02-02-2013, 06:09 AM   #8
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Look for old Yamaha arranger workstations (PSR 6700 etc..), you can get them for next to nothing used, absolute tons (in the hundreds) of little knobs faders and buttons that all sends sysex ready to control anything. Excellent keybeds and built like tanks, remember when these were new, they cost a fortune so component/key quality is very high.

Plastic 61 key, or oldschool unbreakable 88 keys metal tank with a ton of knobs buttons (Including transport buttons) and faders, midi in/out/thru, expression, hold and damper inputs?

I use a PSR 6700 for playing non-weighted stuff, it's great and has more buttons than I could ever use.
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
So did they ever sort out the driver issues with the radium?
I've used my radium on windows XP, vista, 7 and osx 10.6 and up with zero issues.

The radium series has usb and midi i/o as well as a power adapter and battery compartment.
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:21 AM   #10
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I picked up a Korg microKeys 61 just before Christmas and get on great with it. I'm using it with an Akai LPD8 which I already had and plug it in to the Korg because it has 2 usb ports. Works well with the 8 pads and knobs. Plus with the 61 is you get the Korg Legacy collection to play with free here's how much they cost yikes

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Old 02-03-2013, 11:26 AM   #11
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Hi,
Due to my financial situation, I have been buying and selling MIDI controllers.
One of my faves WAS the E-MU xBoard due to the great action and aftertouch. I just happened to pick up an M-Audio Axiom 49, and it looks like I have a new favorite.

So, now I have:
E-MU xBoard 49
M-Audio Axiom 49
Studio 610Plus by Fatar
Roland a-37 76-Key
They are all for sale, and all work fine, but the Axiom is the best of the bunch, except for the 49 key part.
The Roland has the 76-Keys, but no other (DAW) oriented stuff (knobs and sliders, pads, etc.
All listed on eBay and Craigslist, let me know if you need links.

I didn't put this here to sell my boards, just to say the the Axiom 49 is a REALLY NICE ONE! The pads are pressure sensitive, the window huge, and most important, the key action (aftertouch included) is the best of them all.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:58 AM   #12
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So am I right in saying that I'd be best connecting a MIDI straight to my laptop with USB rather than use the Scarlett 18i6 interface's MIDI connector? I thought that by doing that I'd get zero latency?
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:00 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hutch82 View Post
I picked up a Korg microKeys 61 just before Christmas and get on great with it. I'm using it with an Akai LPD8 which I already had and plug it in to the Korg because it has 2 usb ports. Works well with the 8 pads and knobs. Plus with the 61 is you get the Korg Legacy collection to play with free here's how much they cost yikes

H
Does that work fine with Reaper?
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:06 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidiDreamer View Post
Hi,
Due to my financial situation, I have been buying and selling MIDI controllers.
One of my faves WAS the E-MU xBoard due to the great action and aftertouch. I just happened to pick up an M-Audio Axiom 49, and it looks like I have a new favorite.

So, now I have:
E-MU xBoard 49
M-Audio Axiom 49
Studio 610Plus by Fatar
Roland a-37 76-Key
They are all for sale, and all work fine, but the Axiom is the best of the bunch, except for the 49 key part.
The Roland has the 76-Keys, but no other (DAW) oriented stuff (knobs and sliders, pads, etc.
All listed on eBay and Craigslist, let me know if you need links.

I didn't put this here to sell my boards, just to say the the Axiom 49 is a REALLY NICE ONE! The pads are pressure sensitive, the window huge, and most important, the key action (aftertouch included) is the best of them all.
That Axiom looks great but I really want 61 keys so I can play piano stuff a bit better - 49 keys can be a bit restrictive I find
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Old 02-04-2013, 05:41 AM   #15
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Connecting a keyboard to your laptop is better with usb than with an audio device. The audio device has an ASIO driver, but that is only important for the transfer of sound, not midi information! With usb you cut-out one extra link to pc.

I have the M-audio Oxygen61, which is very good. It has a lot of knobs to play around with, and you can use them to edit parameters both with a vst-instrument and Reaper itself. The Oxygen61 even has transport controls like 'play', 'stop', 'record' and 'rewind'...
At $181 it's also well within your pricerange...
http://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-Oxygen.../dp/B0030CIBFQ

One thing to concider before deciding on a Oxygen61:
It has NO MIDI OUT port...
That means you cannot use an external instrument (like a synth-module). You can only connect the Oxygen61 thru usb to a computer.

If you really need a midi-out port, the Behringer UMX610 is probably your best bet. It has everything the M-audio has PLUS a midi-out connector.
http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-U-Co...hringer+umx610

Whichever you decide, they are both great controlers with lots of options.

Cheers.
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Old 02-04-2013, 05:52 AM   #16
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Also,some midi keyboards will recieve information back from your DAW via the USB connection.
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Old 02-04-2013, 06:04 AM   #17
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I had a MIDI keyboard once and it had a noticable latency issue. What's the best way around that? I thought that's what the interface would stop?
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Old 02-04-2013, 06:20 AM   #18
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The latency depends on your audio device, the quality of the ASIO driver for that device and the speed of your processor.

It has nothing to do with the keyboard, but everything with the audio interface.

If you still have too much latency with an Oxygen61 or a UMX610, then your audio-device is at fault (or your laptop if it's an older one)...

Typically, your latency should be between 2ms and 10ms (shown in the right corner of Reaper). If it's more than 10ms, you can't play live with a softsynth...
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Old 02-04-2013, 06:24 AM   #19
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The laptop is a new one with 8GB ram so should be decent. How would I find out what ASIO driver I have and how good it is? I guess if it's not great on usb then using my Focusrite Scarlett 18i6 interface should help things?
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Old 02-04-2013, 06:38 AM   #20
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Yes, your Focusrite Scarlett 18i6, coupled with a fast laptop and a midi-controler like the Oxygen61 or the UMX610 will give you a workable latency.

Be sure to download and install the latest ASIO-driver from Focusrite http://global.focusrite.com/usb-audi...18i6/downloads .

This set-up should give you the best possible envirement for recording and playing virtual instruments.
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:57 AM   #21
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Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated!
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:27 AM   #22
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My pleasure!
Let us know how it goes...
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:59 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weltonmark View Post
That Axiom looks great but I really want 61 keys so I can play piano stuff a bit better - 49 keys can be a bit restrictive I find
They make one in 61 keys
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:06 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by MidiDreamer View Post
They make one in 61 keys
Sadly it's over my price limit.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:14 AM   #25
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Sadly it's over my price limit.
That is sad. I just saw one on Craigslist for $100. I paid $50 for the 49. If you can't afford that, I really do empathize. I have been out of work for two years, and I still come up with keyboards.
Just gotta learn how to play the game eh?
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:10 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsampson View Post
You might also look at some of the "consumer" grade keyboards with sounds. Some of these digital pianos and synths are a great value. Plus have zero latency and are fun to play without a computer.
one of these portable keyboards with sound. My thoughts were, why not, it's midi and I get ZERO latency.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:17 PM   #27
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it's midi and I get ZERO latency.
Not to be nit-picky, but, the very nature of MIDI makes Zero latency impossible.

Just sayin'
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:27 PM   #28
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I simply use a Yamaha Portable Grand, DGX 520 - 88 keys, got it 2nd hand for £100 ... (for more creative use, I still love my Dx-11). But, the DGX + a proper pedal (not a flat footswitch), again £7 off eBay, has USB Midi, so I don't need to bother my audio interfaces. Having it's own sounds, of course it's zero latency! Also, it has a reasonable soundset, so you can record your midi, get it sorted, play it back via the usb to the keyboard and record the audio from the keyoard back onto another track. Having got a midi track, you can then play around with midi tempos etc, and record the audio tracks at different speeds - thus using the hardware side as much as possible. Leaves you plenty of cpu for even the heaviest VST/VSTi use.

Never let me down, dead cheap - can also be used as a cheap and cheerful "stage piano" for light gigs - too much plastic to be lugged around too much! I have never regretted 88 keys.

Loads on UK fleabay as I look!

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Old 02-04-2013, 03:27 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidiDreamer View Post
Not to be nit-picky, but, the very nature of MIDI makes Zero latency impossible.

Just sayin'
Actually MidiDreamer, I think they are referring that when they play the sounds of the keyboard they get 0 latency.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:38 PM   #30
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Actually MidiDreamer, I think they are referring that when they play the sounds of the keyboard they get 0 latency.
Yes, I thought of that, but even those are not Zero. But it seems to me that the OP was referring to a computer based application.
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:16 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidiDreamer View Post
Yes, I thought of that, but even those are not Zero. But it seems to me that the OP was referring to a computer based application.
Huumm, I wonder, which has more latency when you press on a key, a midi keyboard with it's own piano patch or a real piano?

Heh heh, just playing with you.
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:18 PM   #32
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Quote:
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Huumm, I wonder, which has more latency when you press on a key, a midi keyboard with it's own piano patch or a real piano?

Heh heh, just playing with you.
I'm gonna tell my Mom!

I guess I need to get a life, like they say on the net!
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:45 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by weltonmark View Post
Does that work fine with Reaper?
Works great in Reaper but recommend you not load the Korg drivers did that first and Reaper didn't see it. Uninstalled them and let Windows find it and up it pops

H
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:24 AM   #34
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I've seen the Alesis qx61 online at. Decent price. Anyone know what it's like with reaper?
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:37 AM   #35
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The Alesis qx61 should be about the same as the Behringer UMX610.
It also has a midiout connector, along with the usb and control knobs.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:32 PM   #36
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I have the Alesis QX61. I chose it over the M-Audio Oxygen 61.

Be aware, however, that the pads on the QX61 aren't very good. They're not very responsive. Of course, the Oxygen 61 doesn't have pads.

The QX61 has 8 sliders and 8 knobs, the Oxygen 61 has 9 sliders and 8 knobs.

The QX61 has the pitch and mod wheels to the left of the keyboard. The Oxygen has them above the keys.

The QX61 has MIDI out as well as USB, and also a 9V power jack (although I'm not sure why because the USB to MIDI cable powers it just fine).

They both have sustain pedal inputs.

They action on both is synth action.

I did research before making my choice and saw a lot of people were saying their M-Audio stuff was breaking and customer service was non-existant.

That being said, I've emailed Alesis twice (once to ask if they know who makes a case for the QX61 which, like many MIDI controllers, isn't as deep as a normal keyboard with speakers, and is therefore too small for standard 61 key keyboard cases, and once to ask what sustain pedal they recommend) and didn't hear back from them either time.

To be fair, I've only had the keyboard for a few months and really don't use the sliders or knobs much. It has some advanced programming stuff that I haven't gotten into (setting zones, etc.). And it's got loop/fwd/back/play/stop/record buttons that I don't even know what they are for.

But I do use the octave and transpose features.

But as a keyboard I'm happy with it. It has synth action but then again it's a $200 keyboard (although you can get it for less online).

There might be some issues with the sustain pedal and pitch/mod wheels on the QX49, though. Not sure if that applies to the QX61:

http://community.alesis.com/alesis/t...irmware_issues

Last edited by ironfistx; 02-25-2013 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:14 PM   #37
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I use the MAudio Keystation 61es...it was a little over $100 but wanted to mention it because it has performed without flaws for a very long time and very well worth the money. Latency is no issue here, the overall playing "feel" is great and I've done so many drums and keys on it and it never disappoints...
just wanted to mention (even within or without budget) is worth the $
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:33 PM   #38
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My smaller Roland A500 just shat itself so I got an Axiom Pro 49, way better quality than their normal range and it's so easy to program, touch whatever you want to edit, hit the edit button, edit on the nice large display and hit save.

All buttons and keys can also send normal keycodes like a typing keyboard, with all combos of modifiers, it even has a numerical keypad on the left. Set 3 buttons to shift, control and alt and the rest to normal single keys and you have an absolute ton of keys available to control reaper. 4 keyboard zones you can adjust visually in the display.

Keybed is great, semi weighted, and aftertouch action has a little spring load for every key so it's very soft and smooth to trigger aftertouch.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:38 AM   #39
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Just got a used but in good nick Emu Xboard 61 on Gumtree. Arriving within the hour, so I will post my thoughts. I had already tried a friends 49 key version and liked the keybed so I am hopeful and frankly do not intend to actually use it as anything more than a keyboard.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:29 PM   #40
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I have two emu xboard 61 and one xboard 25. Can't beat them without spending quite bit more money. (my main controller-only keyboard is a vmk188+ though).
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