Windows 8 nightmare

[richie43]

You're all dorks..... Ok, no you're not. After my griping about 2 weeks of "suffering" through metro and deciding to go with a 3rd party app "Classic Shell", I just now spent 30 minutes removing it and reacquainting myself with 8.... It's not so bad. And I feel better having a desktop wrapper on my DAW. Because I am tired (and maybe lazy) and don't want to search through the entire thread for the name, I will just say that "someone" had been talking about how we need to be more intelligent these days if we want to truly utilize these amazing machines and the OS's that run them.... Totally right. It took me 2 minutes to get win+D, win+c.win+Q...... I feel so silly. Thanks folks.

[Anomaly]

Originally Posted by Tod

To carry that a little further, are there any apps or programs that work with Win-7 that doesn't work with Win-8, and/or, could there be any problems running programs that work with both XP and Win-7?

So far, I have had minor annoyances with some programs that doesn't work in W8 until I check "Run this program as an administrator" option. This is a bit stupid as this seems to be the case even if the program only needs write permission into it's own installation folder.

@richie43: No problem. Basically you are right, it is a hack, too.

[norbury brook]

don't forget win+x

brings up your power user menu inc device manager etc.



MC

[ivansc]

Originally Posted by Anomaly

So far, I have had minor annoyances with some programs that doesn't work in W8 until I check "Run this program as an administrator" option. This is a bit stupid as this seems to be the case even if the program only needs write permission into it's own installation folder.

@richie43: No problem. Basically you are right, it is a hack, too.

I have only had this with IK Multimedia products - what other programmes have forced you to run in admin mode?

[Coachz]

Just remember that in Win8 you cannot use your Win keys for shortcuts where in Win7 you can. I tried the Win8 interface for 2 months and since I bought it you can be sure I didn't want to throw it out. I'm glad it works for you but the interface reminds me of something I would design for old people who are used to AOL and need big icons.

Originally Posted by richie43

You're all dorks..... Ok, no you're not. After my griping about 2 weeks of "suffering" through metro and deciding to go with a 3rd party app "Classic Shell", I just now spent 30 minutes removing it and reacquainting myself with 8.... It's not so bad. And I feel better having a desktop wrapper on my DAW. Because I am tired (and maybe lazy) and don't want to search through the entire thread for the name, I will just say that "someone" had been talking about how we need to be more intelligent these days if we want to truly utilize these amazing machines and the OS's that run them.... Totally right. It took me 2 minutes to get win+D, win+c.win+Q...... I feel so silly. Thanks folks.

[Anomaly]

Originally Posted by ivansc

I have only had this with IK Multimedia products - what other programmes have forced you to run in admin mode?

So far I have following:

SmartDVB
Soundforge 7
CPUID Hardware monitor

The list is probably going to grow...

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Anomaly

So far I have following:

SmartDVB
Soundforge 7
CPUID Hardware monitor

The list is probably going to grow...

CPUID should require admin rights because it is digging deep to pull out all the CPU information. SoundForge should not and I don't remember it needing Admin when I tried the demo. I don't think SmartDVB should need it either.

I don't expect the list to grow, I have hundreds of apps installed across of all types and I don't have but 1 that requires access that it shouldn't.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Coachz

Just remember that in Win8 you cannot use your Win keys for shortcuts where in Win7 you can.

I don't ever want my windows key or escape remapped but that's irrelevant because........ for those who do...

Can you please remind me of the "remap the win key" registry key you spoke of in one of the other posts that no longer works in Win8? I want to check something for you need to know the name of that reg entry.

[richie43]

Originally Posted by Coachz

Just remember that in Win8 you cannot use your Win keys for shortcuts where in Win7 you can. I tried the Win8 interface for 2 months and since I bought it you can be sure I didn't want to throw it out. I'm glad it works for you but the interface reminds me of something I would design for old people who are used to AOL and need big icons.

You CAN can still use the win key for shortcuts if there is a key before it...ctrl+win, alt+win, etc. Not a problem for me.

[richie43]

Originally Posted by norbury brook

don't forget win+x

brings up your power user menu inc device manager etc.



MC

Thanks for that!!

[msundh]

Originally Posted by Coachz

Just remember that in Win8 you cannot use your Win keys for shortcuts where in Win7 you can. I tried the Win8 interface for 2 months and since I bought it you can be sure I didn't want to throw it out. I'm glad it works for you but the interface reminds me of something I would design for old people who are used to AOL and need big icons.

Well, Win key is for Windows to have some standard in the OS. To use the Win key for own purposes is like assigning the stearing wheel for the brake and the gear for the blinkers. Why is it so important to reassign OS specific short cuts?
To use the Win key is asking for trouble. To be frank, You asked for it

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by richie43

Thanks for that!!

Have you tried CTRL+SCROLL wheel on your classic desktop and/or modern desktop yet? Actually, the CTRL+SCROLL trick works in a LOT of apps. Anyway might as well get the full list of the new shortcuts:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...ortcuts#1TC=t1

And all the old ones if anyone needs them:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/126449

[Coachz]

my way was quicker in Win 7. Pin it, click it

Originally Posted by msundh

Win 7: Click start button, click all programs, click cockos, click reaper
Win 8: Press Win key, type REA, Enter
I really love Win 8 when it comes to start program. Don't miss the start menu a bit.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Coachz

my way was quicker in Win 7. Pin it, click it

Originally Posted by msundh
Win 7: Click start button, click all programs, click cockos, click reaper
Win 8: Press Win key, type REA, Enter
I really love Win 8 when it comes to start program. Don't miss the start menu a bit.

But both of those methods are exactly the same in Win7 and Win8. It's fine to like one or the other but you guys are arguing something that is identical in both. Try it, no difference whatsoever, the win key + type some text thing was introduced in Vista guys.

[Coachz]

arguing ? hardly

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Coachz

arguing ? hardly

Whichever word is the most suitable; contest, wager, lively discussion, thinking out loud, comparing members.. Just noting that particular comparison isn't an OS version thing.

[Anomaly]

And then a bug time.
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...66#post1192666

Currently I'm not sure what to do with this W8... Keep it or dump it.
I don't see much advantage of using it. I guess I just need some more time to decide.

[richie43]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Have you tried CTRL+SCROLL wheel on your classic desktop and/or modern desktop yet? Actually, the CTRL+SCROLL trick works in a LOT of apps. Anyway might as well get the full list of the new shortcuts:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...ortcuts#1TC=t1

And all the old ones if anyone needs them:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/126449

Thanks again Karbo. I almost messed with yet another minimal hack to give me back my old start menu.... But have decided to quit being such a curmudgeon and roll with the changes and just do the Windows 8 thing the way it is. I like everything else about what it has brought to the table, for me at least.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Have you tried CTRL+SCROLL wheel on your classic desktop and/or modern desktop yet? Actually, the CTRL+SCROLL trick works in a LOT of apps. Anyway might as well get the full list of the new shortcuts:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...ortcuts#1TC=t1

And all the old ones if anyone needs them:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/126449

Humm, thanks karbo, not just shortcut keys but some other nice goodies in there.

I'm going to have to do a little more messin' with my wife's puter, heh heh, if I'm not back in a few days you'll know my wife shot me.

[Tod]

Okay, I'm on my wife's puter and when I try to scroll on the right, this this darn menu (or what ever it is) keeps popping up and getting in the way.



I'm sure there is a way to turn it off but I'm a little reluctant to try because I might still need it for something.

[Anomaly]

Tod,
That charm bar has been annoying me too. There is a way to make it less obtruding: http://www.askvg.com/how-to-disable-...-in-windows-8/
But I have not find a way to disable it altogether without 3rd party hack.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Anomaly

Tod,
That charm bar has been annoying me too. There is a way to make it less obtruding: http://www.askvg.com/how-to-disable-...-in-windows-8/
But I have not find a way to disable it altogether without 3rd party hack.

Aah, thanks Anomaly, that looks simple enough.

[Leopold]

Just thought I'd chip in.

Was running Reaper on XP with Q6600 and 2GB RAM. Upgraded to W8 Pro 64x and 8GB RAM and the difference in track count and simultaneous plugins is amazing!

I did make sure I installed Stardock Start8 to give me back the feel of W7, it's only $5 and is a little more polished than Classic Shell, though I only discovered Classic Shell after I bought Start8.

I run an IT maintenance company during the day to earn pennies to fund my music habit, so I'm pretty well versed in all versions of Windows from 3.11 onwards, and I have to say W8 without the classic shell/start button sucks bigtime! But add a start button and menu - totally transformed into a fast and stable OS that really does seem highly suitable for audio production.

I've not had any problems since switching to 8, even my ageing dual Delta 66's are performing happily with the latest drivers.

I also have Reaper on another PC running W7 Ultimate on identical hardware, but I can't honestly perceive and difference in performance between 7 and 8.
If you already run W7, then there is absolutely no point in upgrading. But if you have XP or Vista then it's a no brainer - install W8, stick some more RAM in, download Classic Shell and enjoy the performance boost!

[The Telenator]

Here's the bottom line for me, everyone:

I think those 'tiles' are some of the most hideous-looking, awfully coloured things I have EVER SEEN on a PC screen and I'm just not having any of this. Microsoft, with its Windows 8, has turned your computer into a stinking smart phone or pad PC without clearing this ahead of time with anyone. I will not have my PC looking like some huge cell phone screen covered with apps.

As for the rest, I refuse to pay for or use MS Word anymore, finding OpenOffice 10X more charming and enjoyable to use. Does anyone know? WILL my OpenOffice work on Windows 8 and without issue? Does anyone else use this free and open source word processing? I simply love it and it costs 0$. Has anyone tried using on W8?

Regarding the silliness of contrived complications in getting Reaper to start, I use this thing called an ICON that is right there on the desktop. I double click and -- surprise! -- there it Reaper! I'll be damned if I am going to type anything to open anything. That's Command Prompt BS that I need rarely and a throwback to a million years ago in home PC.

[The Telenator]

Lessor issues:

I don't want anything to do with the 'Charm Bar'. Further, like the tiling app approach they have taken, I think the ultra-modern symbols for this and that being used now (e.g., the ugly symbols on the Charm Bar) are horrible also.

Although it eats a few extra CPU to use, I have kept Windows Aero Glass on Win7. Any decent PC can cope with a few extra CPU percentage when doing music, and I have had no troubles. Actually, the times my PC has to do anything in regard to moving windows around or drop-down menus and items in the more 'fancy' way is never when I'm doing anything very intensive on a DAW. All this said in defense of Aero and fancier W7 visuals because I've always found all this very appealing, even strikingly pretty when I first went to W7. So, is all of this gone now, too, in Windows 8? If so, more and more, improved performance aside, it's looking like Win8 is a definite step backward. Again, my question: Is Aero Glass gone now, replaced by bad colours and very 2D-looking stuff?

[hopi]

Originally Posted by Leopold

Just thought I'd chip in.

Was running Reaper on XP with Q6600 and 2GB RAM. Upgraded to W8 Pro 64x and 8GB RAM and the difference in track count and simultaneous plugins is amazing!

I did make sure I installed Stardock Start8 to give me back the feel of W7, it's only $5 and is a little more polished than Classic Shell, though I only discovered Classic Shell after I bought Start8.

I run an IT maintenance company during the day to earn pennies to fund my music habit, so I'm pretty well versed in all versions of Windows from 3.11 onwards, and I have to say W8 without the classic shell/start button sucks bigtime! But add a start button and menu - totally transformed into a fast and stable OS that really does seem highly suitable for audio production.

I've not had any problems since switching to 8, even my ageing dual Delta 66's are performing happily with the latest drivers.

I also have Reaper on another PC running W7 Ultimate on identical hardware, but I can't honestly perceive and difference in performance between 7 and 8.
If you already run W7, then there is absolutely no point in upgrading. But if you have XP or Vista then it's a no brainer - install W8, stick some more RAM in, download Classic Shell and enjoy the performance boost!

well sure from xp to 7 or 8 64 bit is gonna let you use more than 4 gb ram [assuming you have more ram]
what is funny to me is all the effort I see here to make 8 behave like 7...

hahahaha
If it tastes just like chicken, why not just eat chicken?

[richie43]

Originally Posted by hopi

well sure from xp to 7 or 8 64 bit is gonna let you use more than 4 gb ram [assuming you have more ram]
what is funny to me is all the effort I see here to make 8 behave like 7...

hahahaha
If it tastes just like chicken, why not just eat chicken?

Ha ha, I was in that "I want my Windows 7 chicken flavor" mode for Windows 8 until recently. I took a few days to rethink my desktop work-flow, and have loved it ever since. For me, it was more about this old dog not wanting to learn a few new easy tricks. I can imagine that there are many more "old dogs" than anyone wants to admit to.

[519tbarr]

have you tried the new Windows 8.1 beta?
loaded it on my old intel core 2 quad.
loaded reaper on it.
start button is back on the desktop.
seems snappier.
i did have problems with reaper in windows 8 on a newer asus amd 8 core.
8.1 feels better to me. no driver issues or stalling issues that i get with same version of reaper on windows 7.

[Leopold]

Originally Posted by hopi

well sure from xp to 7 or 8 64 bit is gonna let you use more than 4 gb ram [assuming you have more ram]
what is funny to me is all the effort I see here to make 8 behave like 7...

hahahaha
If it tastes just like chicken, why not just eat chicken?

Well, for a start Windows 8 Pro upgrade is half the price of Windows 7 Pro, plus I bought it when it was just 25 quid, so that was a compelling reason. And yes, I do realise more ram will help, but even before I did the ram upgrade comparing a clean install of XP and a clean install of W8 on identical hardware gave a massive boost to speed, plus W8 brings with it some extra goodies even running disguised as 7.

[The Telenator]

Uh . . . they're almost giving it away 'cause people don't want it. Those nice prices aren't out of the goodness of their hearts.

Nothing funny about wanting 8 to behave (in my case, 'look') much like 7. What ever happened to 'Don't fix it if it ain't broke?' What ever happened to what consumers want in an OS over what direction MS (wrongly, apparently?) decided to take this thing. Despite huge customer disapproval and continuing loss of market share -- particularly in business where in a recent good survey it showed no more than 15% of businesses have accepted Win8, Microsoft is arrogantly pushing on with an OS that is becoming known throughout the computer world as the 'OS that Nobody Wants'. You see, Win8 has been a double or triple fail of a notion -- those who don't like touch screens or even have the option, don't like hauling their mouses all over kingdom come on-screen, don't like fiddling with hidden 'charm bars' just to sign off, gamers hate Metro and how Win8 subtly at most times and seriously at others SLOWS DOWN their software and hardware, businesses saw the need to retrain employees for Win8 an unacceptable expense and have opted OUT, and making the OS of Win8 more in line and similar-looking to the Windows Phone (which fewer than 5% use) and the Windows Surface tablet (which has stagnated even after the huge and snooty promo adverts) clearly showed that customers just aren't that caring about having all their various gadgets look and operate identically.

Remember that when MS boasts that it has sold some 100 million licenses for Win8 in the last 2 quarters that there were another 100+ million PC/IBM-type computers sold during this time -- proof in numbers that the Win8 is not the must-have OS they make it out to be. The other PCs are running something OTHER! Linux perhaps?

No real chicken here. Maybe you better call it 'chicken-food product'.

[The Telenator]

Let's talk REAL performance, can we? I don't expect bench tests here (unless you have one!), but can anyone offer some stats? Anyone?

Hows about % reduction in CPU cost for those using the same machine but have switched from 7 to 8? And so on. All I really see in this thread so far is a bunch of anecdotal stuff. Counts for nothing really.

[Coachz]

i'm back on win7. I actually had many glitches and clicks at 128 3ms buffer on win8. In win7 I have none and just make music but that's just me.

[ivansc]

I still haven't mustered up the courage to install Win 8.1 even if it IS free.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by ivansc

I still haven't mustered up the courage to install Win 8.1 even if it IS free.

Hi Ivan, what do you mean by free. Heh heh, I suppose the answer is up above somewhere but...............Please

[Anomaly]

Perhaps he meant that Windows 8.1 is free update for windows 8 owners.

[ivansc]

MICROSLOTH (C) sent me an email inviting me to download it.

I havent had a bill for it but \i have a dev copy of Win8Pro plus the Win8HomePremium that came on my new lappy.
I was offered one free 8.1 but \i dont know if that was because I bought the lappy or because I had the dev copy registered.

[l0calh05t]

Originally Posted by Anomaly

So far, I have had minor annoyances with some programs that doesn't work in W8 until I check "Run this program as an administrator" option. This is a bit stupid as this seems to be the case even if the program only needs write permission into it's own installation folder.

@richie43: No problem. Basically you are right, it is a hack, too.

With a default configured Win7 you'll have the same "issue". This is actually correct and expected behavior. Programs should *not* write to their installation folder

[l0calh05t]

Originally Posted by The Telenator

Let's talk REAL performance, can we? I don't expect bench tests here (unless you have one!), but can anyone offer some stats? Anyone?

Hows about % reduction in CPU cost for those using the same machine but have switched from 7 to 8? And so on. All I really see in this thread so far is a bunch of anecdotal stuff. Counts for nothing really.

Dunno if anyone posted this link before, but did you have a look at this: http://blog.cakewalk.com/windows-8-a...-applications/

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Anomaly

Perhaps he meant that Windows 8.1 is free update for windows 8 owners.

Originally Posted by ivansc

MICROSLOTH (C) sent me an email inviting me to download it.

I havent had a bill for it but \i have a dev copy of Win8Pro plus the Win8HomePremium that came on my new lappy.
I was offered one free 8.1 but \i dont know if that was because I bought the lappy or because I had the dev copy registered.

Aah, okay thanks guys.

[musicbynumbers]

Originally Posted by l0calh05t

Dunno if anyone posted this link before, but did you have a look at this: http://blog.cakewalk.com/windows-8-a...-applications/

Great find. Anyone else have more like this? I thought DawBench had a win 7 versus 8 test but couldn't see it there.