Old 03-09-2018, 06:35 PM   #121
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Heh heh, back in my day it was 6L6 for the main power amps, I always carried a couple of them along with the 12aux tubes for emergencies.
Yes sir. I still have an amp or two with 6L6s and have had many amps with them. I also have a backup set of tubes (at minimum) for each of my tube amps.
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Old 03-12-2018, 03:10 PM   #122
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Did you keep/mind sharing some time stats?
How many hours recording (avg per song or even total)?
Hours mixing?
Hours mastering?
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Old 03-12-2018, 04:46 PM   #123
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Did you keep/mind sharing some time stats?
How many hours recording (avg per song or even total)?
Hours mixing?
Hours mastering?
Don't mind at all... Two full days to track drums, six songs per day. I spent about a week or two doing drum edits after that a few hours per day on and off. Much of that time was having to listen to all drums on all songs all the way through to find things that really needed to be fixed - that took the most time because with only drum tracks and no quantizing I had to be extremely careful about what 'mistakes' I edited.

Tracking, was about 4 weeks give or take. That was mostly in the evenings after work so couple hours per night with a few runs on the weekends that were longer. Keep in mind it was all in spare time so this was not 4 weeks of hard work but 4 weeks of the time we could get in between work/family. Average track count per project is about 60 tracks but keep in mind that includes all FX tracks, folders, busses and/or anything special. Pure official audio tracks are a bit less.

Mixing, was from roughly end of sept through third week of October. I was sending early mixes to trusted friends by the end of October - November through the holidays was really creative stuff and fixing things that were more orchestration or composition based. In other words there were several songs where I chopped out entire sections as they weren't useful to the song. January and February were mastering and chopping down the tiny things that kept cropping up. It was most difficult when I got down to .2 to .5 dB adjustments, at that granular of level change, what you think when you make the change isn't enough, it requires several listens in and outside the studio after the fact to understand if it was too much or too little.

Mastering FWIW wasn't that much work. Since I mixed thru a mastering chain the entire time there wasn't much to do after recreating the basic chain... I probably spent more time doing small macro level adjustments (see pic).

I was on semi-hold for a couple weeks while we decided on song sequence. It's amazing how level changes needed tweaking based on which song follows which. I had to deal with that quite a bit, song A ends loud, but song B is low key, I had to automate to account for that or the transition would be too jarring. A decent number of small volume ebb and flow adjustments.

I can't say much on hours, for lack of a better term, I'm a bit of a "stoner mentality" so I can sit down and dork with ideas for days and not even notice the time, keeping only the stuff I like and throwing alot away. But that was sort of the decision to do this ourselves, no studio clock, I can spend as much or as little time as I want, I can waste as much time as I want, and I did a lot of all of that.

Things I learned...

1. I caught more stuff that needed attention by laying on the couch in the back of the studio with complete disregard to the mix sweet spot.

2. I also noticed my perception completely changed when I was listening to a render vs live tracks. Once I grasped that I forced all note taking sessions to renders listened to on the couch.

3. I knew it already but was reminded that the brain/ears are a fickle bunch. There were times I decided to make some set of mix changes, got frustrated as to how obvious it was and how terrible everything sounded... Only to return to the previous version and find the changes to be nearly indistinguishable, truly amazing phenomenon.

4. Another thing I knew but is hitting home. I put a shitload of time into the subtle stuff that 99% of the people will never notice. Things that are super obvious to me, most never know is there and never will unless they dig in and listen over and over. I'm glad I did that, it's who I am but nevertheless, the person at the table has to decide if they want to search for the subtle flavors in the dish and/or if it's worth it. I'm fine if the vast majority listen on earbuds riding down the road without paying much attention but if the person is a deep listener, there stuff for them as well.

In all honesty, once the tracking/edits were complete, I could have mixed it in a week and be useable but again, the idea was to relax and have fun so time spent had no expectation on final result. There are a lot of sonic Easter eggs that took lots of time but that's just part of the fun.

Ask anything you want, there's only thousands of things I can describe LOL.


The pic below is what the mastering project looked like FYI - the only FX on the master track is a "just in case limiter" that never fired IIRC and a tiny, tiny, tiny amount of reverb to give a little glue overtop of everything - it's likely never heard to be honest - the rest is per song on the item FX chain:

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Old 03-12-2018, 06:36 PM   #124
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Thanks for sharing that, and the whole project! Really awesome to follow along your journey.

I wish I could get the younger guys in my band (mid-20s) to read that post. We've started working on self-recording our first four-song EP and I keep telling them that it will take longer than they expect. But, they have little or no recording experience and just think I'm trying to make excuses to delay the project completion.

The singer thinks we can stroll into a local recording studio with a few hundred bucks and walk out with a radio-ready EP in a day. We have all of the equipment we need to do it ourselves and basically no money. I just don't know how to explain things any better to make them understand. I've been through this process before, years ago, so I know what to expect and the patience required to get an acceptable outcome.

We're recording drums now. 9 tracks simultaneous for those, and recording them to a bedtrack that I time-stretched to the grid. Then we'll track each instrument separately on top of the drums. That's the plan for now, at least.
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Old 03-13-2018, 05:58 AM   #125
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Best of luck on your project!

All I can suggest is be as patient (and as confident) as you can and see if you can find and exploit their strengths. One thing I did do with the guys regularly was meet with them and sort of layout the process/progress and why and always ask for their thoughts, agreed or not so that they felt like they had a voice. I also tried to present as part of the team as ultimately on their side, instead of being a recording czar hehe. There is some value in figuring out how to maximize what one actually has, vs trying to force it into what they think it should be - even when they are right - this might even be the most important thing of all. I also made sure we separate, "technical concern" from "matter of taste" which helped a lot discussion wise. When it was a matter of taste, we simply voted as a group.

I'd still stand up for the right thing when needed but sincerely and respectfully. I also provided "nightly builds" of tracking and mix progress so that there was little/no chance someone would come up at the end and complain about something they should have weeks before, I'd sort of ask for an informal sign off on each progress report via group text and webpage....

FYI: I coded up the web player below early on - that is what I used for nightly mix reviews. It says PreMasters now but until that phase it would be SongName [Tracking Mixes] Date. I was doing this even when all the tracks weren't complete yet. I'd choose a new 'sexy pinup' pic for the title page every few updates just to keep them interested lol... This is 50% actual size as not to take up forum page space but my idea was to make it as easy as possible so they could listen at home or on their cell phone whatever. The date scheme also kept everyone in sync on which version they were listening too and I'd archive off old versions in case there was a question between new/old.



I'd occasionally try things I knew wouldn't work so they could see for themselves, and other times I played the accountability card... "We can consider that path but here's the downside and we're all going to be looking at you if it doesn't work". There were also times I went against my gut with the idea that I'm not perfect either and there could be something worthwhile I was turning a blind eye too, and in some cases that was the case. When they saw me do that, the respect grew me thinks. I also made sure I used the term "we" as much as possible and "I" as little as possible.

IOW I tried as best I could to be, act and sound sincere then deliver on it - much of that over-organization above was surely as much for them as it was for me - when they saw how I had accounted for 1001 out of 1000 details they were more willing to go along.
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Old 03-13-2018, 01:31 PM   #126
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I'd choose a new 'sexy pinup' pic for the title page every few updates just to keep them interested lol...
And us peons get nothing????
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Old 03-13-2018, 01:44 PM   #127
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And us peons get nothing????
Well I figured I should use the actual album cover but good point.
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Old 03-13-2018, 01:49 PM   #128
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Well I figured I should use the actual album cover but good point.
Well.... we'll forgive you... this time...

I'm really liking the tunes! Can't say "Good Job" too much here. Well written, recorded and mixed.
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Old 03-13-2018, 01:58 PM   #129
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Well.... we'll forgive you... this time...

I'm really liking the tunes! Can't say "Good Job" too much here. Well written, recorded and mixed.
Ah cool and thanks, I'm farking sick of hearing them from being inside of them for so long, will be better after another week's break LOL. The downside is no matter what I do, I'll never get to hear them like others hear them, "I know too much"

And outside of song goodness or badness, I enjoy talking about the process since I spent so much time in it so I'm happy (as evidenced above) to describe anything that anyone finds interest in. You guys are my only outlet for the engineering/mixing/song stuff hence the long-winded-ness.
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Old 03-13-2018, 02:39 PM   #130
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I really appreciate the advice!

I gave a listen yesterday on my laptop speakers, and it sounds good on those. I'm out of town at the moment, so wanting to give another listen on headphones and at home.

I want to say that "Shadow" caught my attention most on first listen.
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Old 04-27-2018, 03:56 PM   #131
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So glad this one is done...

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...8&postcount=20

Now it's time to start the next one but I'm determined to make it more like six tunes instead of twelve which is too damn many to work with from beginning to end of the project.
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