Old 11-12-2016, 12:16 PM   #81
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Well WT has clearly stated that he's not looking for critique in this thread and has trusted testers performing that role. He's just graciously sharing his WIP here so I'd imagine the scope of replies to be more or less simple gratitude for something that has cost you absolutely nothing.
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Old 11-12-2016, 12:32 PM   #82
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"Hey guys, here's a preview of my new theme. You'll notice it's not complete, not everything works, but I just thought you might like to see it."

"WTF this is completely unuseable. You didn't even provide TCP layouts and all sorts of things are missing or don't work. I'm going to have to move back to Pro Tools if this is how unprofessional the folks at Reaper are."
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Old 11-12-2016, 02:42 PM   #83
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So it's agreed then.

We'll give our adoration now...
And then criticise it to buggery when the final release nears
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Old 11-12-2016, 02:49 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesPeters View Post
Cubic13: If he says it's "very far from done", then why bother criticizing it in such detail. He says it's "moderately usable" and that's as far as he goes in declaring how "done" it is. The title of the thread is "WT Imperial v5 - progress snapshot build".

No good deed goes unpunished...
Why bother criticizing it in such detail ? I'm going to be as honest as possible : seeing 70 posts in less than 48 hours acclaiming a WIP with no less than 15 screenshots (showing that, at least, the mixer was no longer a still 'in progress' work) and saying how a genius he is, obviously without any in depth testing, left me speechless. And I really don't like the "I'm not necessarily looking for feedback at the moment" attitude : if you post here something, either in the stash or as a download link, you have to be prepared for any feedback, no matter how pleasant ot irritating it could be.
So, I downloaded the stuff to see what was behind all the fuss and simply reported back what I saw. If we are not allowed to do so, then why such a thread at first place ? To only get congratulations and cheers ? If so, he nearly succeeded, I admit, and I'm really wondering if we haven't all loose minimal critical sense, at this point.

As a themer myself, I created a thread for my uploaded work and expect seeing in it BOTH congratulations and criticisms. That's the way things should be, IMO. Guess what ? I'm nearly sure that my previous post will be useful, somehow, even if he'll never admit it publicly here.

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Originally Posted by Thalamus View Post
Well WT has clearly stated that he's not looking for critique in this thread and has trusted testers performing that role. He's just graciously sharing his WIP here so I'd imagine the scope of replies to be more or less simple gratitude for something that has cost you absolutely nothing.
The "trusted testers" obviously failed on this one : it's not an opinion, it's a fact. And I, as well as countless themers here, also "graciously" shared my work and don't expect any payment or gratitude in return. I did so for a simple reason : to give a contribution to the so-called Reaper "community" as I've been able to do so, at a point. You will never know how many time I passed tweaking to death the themes I have uploaded here, this, to make it as reliable as I could for any potential user, and I'm still not done with them. So, should WT get a medal for its 'WIP' ? If so, there are hundreds of them that need to be struck...
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Old 11-12-2016, 04:07 PM   #85
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I think that at least half the reason he posted it was that he got tired of answering threads about WALTER and the new stuff and how it applies that he wanted as he said to get the code out there which is understandable and a good thing, and there would have been no way to present the code without the accompanying graphical dependencies in this case, it would have been too out of context. I am grateful for the code and the graphical stuff because I simply can not learn it from the SDK it just doesn't sit with me, I have to see and use it in real time. I think another reason for the post is the constant complaining about the v5 default theme - all in all I think he wanted to show people what is possible, and how it can be implemented, and also that things are still on the horizon to look forward to. All this from someone who is constantly berated with complaints and even personal attacks, I mean this is my reason for the hats off. I think he is doing what he can in spite of everything, and some creative and original ideas have come from his direction, which is always refreshing. Sure everything is not gonna be a number one hit but I think there are some seriously strong material here that will be brought to fruition.
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Old 11-12-2016, 04:31 PM   #86
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There it is, just READ it:

Here's what I've been working on for the better part of a year. Its very far from done, 6 months to go would be my guess. I'm sharing it because I think its very good and the world is full of good things and on some days its good to remember that. I also want to get the WALTER out because I believe some of it could be extremely useful to other themers.

On that subject : please feel free to raid the WALTER and use whatever bits of code you might find useful (suggestion: the imageshift macros are very simple but do wonderful things). However, I must insist that you do not use any of the images or make mods of the theme or anything like that yet, let me finish first. I'm including an awful lot of code and alternative images to make modding easy and powerful, in good time.

Its just the mixer so far, that's where I started. Because, well, its Imperial.

The build I am sharing is the latest one that is currently in use by my testers. Its moderately usable. I'm not necessarily looking for feedback at the moment, I've got plenty of testers who I trust implicitly, but if you're curious then please feel free to take a look. Here's the theme file; DON'T MAKE ME REGRET SHARING IT m'kay?

Its Imperial, it looks like Imperial. But more so. The ethos remains as it was; to take a lot of space and use it to show everything at once, with generous sizing and margins to make control searching and mouse-hit easy. The old Imperial scored extremely high in function and usability testing, my hope and expectation is this will perhaps surpass it.
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Old 11-12-2016, 04:36 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubic13 View Post
I wouldn't say that, but well... I'm sorry to say that it's not 'moderatly usable', it's simply unusable for me at its present state. Seems that the mixer is more or less ready, "because, well, it's Imperial". Then...

- Why, for several layouts and a wide range of mixer heights, the meters are simply invisible ? Rather a strange choice for mixing...
- For other range of heights, why the three dots below each extended mixer section are superposing with its controls, especially the 'sends' ones ? And are these really necessary ?
- For the 'Stockholm' layouts, why do we have a blank area, with a strange black outgrowth at the bottom of it, displayed instead of the extended area controls ?
- Still for the 'Stockholm' layouts, why don't the folders indicators lit as for the other ones ?
- For 'Default' and 'Stockholm' layouts, What happened to the mcp.recmon control ? IMO, at least the 'Default' layouts should show ALL the available controls that could be used in the mixer.
- Has the 'Tracking deck (neat)' layout been really tested ? It's completely buggy, with several controls displayed over other ones.
- About the 'Sidecar' ones, wouldn't it be more coherent to show a fader as for the other layouts, instead of a huge blank area ?
- Is it normal that there is no minimal vertical size of the mixer, especially in a theme for which the mcp.extmixer.mode is set to [1] ?

At this point, I'm really wondering what the 'implicitly trusted testers' have been doing, from which this present post. And I have to mention questionable display choices, among others, several labels that don't follow Reaper terminology (i.e. 'Solo safe' instead of 'Solo defeat') or the mcp.trackidx vertical position that vary with layouts choosed.

With this, I know that beside the mixer, things are still under development, but I can't avoid mentioning also several things that need a quick fix :
- The tcp master track shows only, beside the fader and the meters, the master.tcp.solo control for the 'Layout default'. Is this by design ? And using the 'a1 -- Default' one shows nearly unusable crunched controls.
- Still for the tcp.master track, why aren't we able to redimension it vertically to reduce its size ? There is a non Walter statement can be added in the rtconfig.txt header for this : tcp_master_minheight 22
- The transport panel is oversized and the 'Compact' layout is buggy with, among others, a 'Loop' button overextended and covering the 'selection' fields.
- Still for the transport panel : the 'Center transport controls' option doesn't work. Could be useful for some...
- In the track list, the tcp.trackidx is almost invisible : something should be done, here.
- We really need true and visible folder indentation of the tracks list in the arrangement window. Much more useful than any folder indentation in the mixer, in my view.

And finally... This theme .ReaperThemeZip file uses no less than 7.3 Mb and is the only theme I know of that shows a significant delay when loading it. Is there anything that could be done to optimize it and make it more sober ?

Sorry to disturb, with all this, the fanboys fest...
cubic13 -

Would you care to share some of your unfinished music so that we may break them down into things we don't like, or feel need work on? I think it's only fair.

Link please...

L
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Old 11-12-2016, 04:47 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luxmaji View Post
Would you care to share some of your unfinished music so that we may break them down into things we don't like, or feel need work on? I think it's only fair.
Actually, shouldn't we all want that? Genuine constructive criticism should be sought by anyone wanting to improve.
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Old 11-12-2016, 04:56 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by tack View Post
Actually, shouldn't we all want that? Genuine constructive criticism should be sought by anyone wanting to improve.
You're 100% correct when it's solicited.

L
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Old 11-12-2016, 05:31 PM   #90
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I grabbed a few TCP layouts from the original WT Imperial and fused them into the new v5.
Took about 10 mins or so.

I've been using v5 for the last few days, on a laptop, with the "project" MCP layouts.

Its all been working very well, and looks stunning.

The original Imperial needed quite a lot of tweakage, from my perspective, but the new v5 is pretty good to go.
It just needs its tcps.
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Old 11-12-2016, 08:56 PM   #91
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For those new to white tie theme threads just a friendly warning that irritating Mr tie is easier than you might anticipate even if you are trying not to and the result may be that he concludes to "sod these wankers" and ceremonially 'bleach bit' the theme cos that's what all we deserve.

Diva or misunderstood genius?! Aren't we all.
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Old 11-12-2016, 09:37 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubic13 View Post

As a themer myself,..
In this case you're just a copycat, sorry .
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Old 11-12-2016, 10:56 PM   #93
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Cubic is pretty experienced as far as theming goes, his comments are valid.

His nuendo grey theme is certainly in my top 5.
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Old 11-12-2016, 11:11 PM   #94
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Stockholm looks great, dyes great, lol, too bad Master track remains the same

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Old 11-13-2016, 01:48 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolian View Post
Cubic is pretty experienced as far as theming goes, his comments are valid.
I wasn't born yesterday
I've seen and tried his work and I do respect him for what he has done,
but this theme he is attacking (so it seems, or is it WT ) is not finished, far from it, and it's clearly stated.
I know I won't be using this even when it's finished, but you have to be a blind cow ( your none seeing eyes buried in your ass ) if you don't see how well it's done.
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Old 11-13-2016, 02:05 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sightlessness View Post
Stockholm looks great, dyes great, lol, too bad Master track remains the same

My stockholm Master is ok.

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Old 11-13-2016, 02:35 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolian View Post
Cubic is pretty experienced as far as theming goes, his comments are valid.

His nuendo grey theme is certainly in my top 5.
Exactly the kind of post that helps keeping my motivation intact to improve my work. So, a sincere thanks for this one...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Luxmaji View Post
cubic13 -

Would you care to share some of your unfinished music so that we may break them down into things we don't like, or feel need work on? I think it's only fair.

Link please...

L
We are not talking about music delivered, here, just in case this would have escaped from you. So, as theming is the actual subject, here is the link to my contribution : https://stash.reaper.fm/theme/1852/CubicPack260.zip

Feel free to test it to death, after having take a look on the bundled pdf documentation, and report back what could be misbehaving in this thread : I'm genuinely interested.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogibear View Post
I wasn't born yesterday
I've seen and tried his work and I do respect him for what he has done,
but this theme he is attacking (so it seems, or is it WT ) is not finished, far from it, and it's clearly stated.
I know I won't be using this even when it's finished, but you have to be a blind cow ( your none seeing eyes buried in your ass ) if you don't see how well it's done.
Thanks for the acknowledgment but, again, no upload or related link posted here should be spared from criticism : I just stated what was misbehaving, in my view. Now, I expect from you an in depth test of WT work to confront the way we see the whole thing. My actual point is this one : if this is a WIP work (and I doubt it, at least for the mixer, considering all the screenshots posted in the OP), the thread related to it should welcome any report about what could be misbehaving.

We have an evident model : see the way Justin and Schwa interact with any comment in the 'Pre-release' forum. So, I'm sincerely wondering what the "I'm not necessarily looking for feedback at the moment" statement stands for. Again, what WT is expecting from such a thread, beside congrats ?
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Old 11-13-2016, 04:32 AM   #98
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How on earth do you change the Master looks? I don't see the same menu as the other tracks... let alone the right option of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Never View Post
My stockholm Master is ok.

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Old 11-13-2016, 04:38 AM   #99
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I usually don't repost, but lost in the noise of negativity and congrats, I think this is a very important outcome of White Tie's latest work -- I will never think of parametric EQ interfacing the way I did before I saw the Iris-Style control, it's just brilliant.



ORIGINAL POST:


Iris-style OMG !!!

You have outdone yourself sir !

Now something that would have been prohibitively expensive can be done with ease.

It's the closest to a perfect metaphor for a parametric EQ I can ever recall encountering.

Imagine that the Pan is replaced with Boost/Cut -- Pan -> Boost/Cut

Imagine that the Width is replaced with Q -- Width -> Q

Imagine a new Frequency control that takes up the upper part of the 360 arc unoccupied by the Width/Q control

Be able to swap Frequency -- Boost/Cut graphics/functionality.

Voila, a clean, tight graphic representation of one parametric band, one of the hardest UI metaphors to get clean and tight !!

Can you imagine the cost of trying to physically implement something like that in the real world, talk about expensive.

Now think of manipulating this control on a haptic touch screen -- HEAVEN !!
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Old 11-13-2016, 07:03 AM   #100
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I trained in arts & design years ago and I have to say White Tie is a true artist, and his work, whether it is currently working or not (as he said there is still 6 months to go) is a masterpiece of design.
All the praise is highly deserved and I really think his work is in another class.

Bravo sir!


Quote:
Originally Posted by cubic13 View Post
So, I'm sincerely wondering what the "I'm not necessarily looking for feedback at the moment" statement stands for. Again, what WT is expecting from such a thread, beside congrats ?
Artists occasionally like to share what they are working on. No reason need be given.

His work is brilliant. Innovative. He thinks outside the box and brings something new to the table. He's a real innovator. His work, at whatever state of completion, has every right to be shown to the world.
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Old 11-13-2016, 07:49 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Retro Audio Enthusiast View Post
I trained in arts & design years ago and I have to say White Tie is a true artist, and his work, whether it is currently working or not (as he said there is still 6 months to go) is a masterpiece of design.
All the praise is highly deserved and I really think his work is in another class.

Bravo sir!

...snip...

Artists occasionally like to share what they are working on. No reason need be given.

His work is brilliant. Innovative. He thinks outside the box and brings something new to the table. He's a real innovator. His work, at whatever state of completion, has every right to be shown to the world.
I have to add a hearty +1 to this! This is most certainly a master piece of art with some very clever and practical use of WALTER that we somewhat lesser themers can learn from.
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Old 11-13-2016, 07:53 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubic13 View Post
I'm sincerely wondering what the "I'm not necessarily looking for feedback at the moment" statement stands for. Again, what WT is expecting from such a thread, beside congrats ?
Did you miss this part?

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie
I also want to get the WALTER out because I believe some of it could be extremely useful to other themers.
Cut the childish envy and malevolence, and maybe take a good look at the innovations in the theme to see how you could improve your own work. Improvement was what you wanted after all?
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Old 11-13-2016, 07:55 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubic13 View Post

Feel free to test it to death, after having take a look on the bundled pdf documentation, and report back what could be misbehaving in this thread : I'm genuinely interested.


So, I'm sincerely wondering what the "I'm not necessarily looking for feedback at the moment" statement stands for. Again, what WT is expecting from such a thread, beside congrats ?
Your theme is very nice and I commend you for the time and effort it took to create it.

The difference in WT and you (at the moment) is that he was not seeking a laundry list of commentary on his theme. It would be like reviewing the movie when all you have are some scenes and a trailer.

There's a difference between "not necessarily looking for feedback" and "feel free to test to death...and report back".

I'm going to refrain from criticism until he communicates that it's all finished and ready for use.

There's no question you're a talented, intelligent person - and have good wisdom to share. Let's just wait until it's time to do so.

As a designer, there's nothing more frustrating than having your work reviewed prior to being finished. Many times the designer is totally aware of the shortcomings and has yet had the time to address them. That's where my frustration comes from regarding your well thought out comments. The timing was a bit premature.

All the best - let's move along
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Old 11-13-2016, 02:21 PM   #104
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Huge thanks for doing this and for sharing it!

You have clearly put a lot of hours into this.

Stockholm layout especially looks good to me.
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Old 11-13-2016, 07:51 PM   #105
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How on earth do you change the Master looks? I don't see the same menu as the other tracks... let alone the right option of it.


@sightlessness - Not sure maybe you need to DL it again.
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Old 11-13-2016, 11:15 PM   #106
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This is amazing! I can't wait until it's all done! I loved the original Imperial and will certainly use this when it is complete.

I must say Stockholm is Beautiful as far as flat, futuristic GUI looks go. Honestly, I think that the Stockholm look, if carried out over the entire program could be a great overall Reaper Default Theme in the future. If not the THE default theme, a secondary Default look that comes in the Reaper Download. I think it would give Reaper a very professional and progressive "DAW OF THE FUTURE" kind of aesthetic. Simply cannot wait, either way with all that said, personally I would love to see a full Reaper theme in the Stockholm flat style.. so like if you could do that. I would be super appreciative

Thanks for all your hard work WT!
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Old 11-14-2016, 03:33 AM   #107
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(First of all thanks Never )

Lol, yeah, I usually try to apply track style directly by right clicking a track, but after studying your image it came to me that it is in general menu>options>layouts.

Love it so far Stockhold B, very very nice. Wish it had a narrow mode too, although 18 tracks plus master is not bad at all, lol.

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Originally Posted by Never View Post


@sightlessness - Not sure maybe you need to DL it again.
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Old 11-15-2016, 03:51 AM   #108
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Lots of interesting and correct points. Although the WT specified that the theme is still 6 months to go! I do believe as far as usability level for a -6 months Theme, this is already awesome.

Nevertheless good points if it was not for this last sentence that puts everything under a different (less pleasant) light:

Quote:
Originally Posted by cubic13 View Post
Sorry to disturb, with all this, the fanboys fest...
In fact I can't see many themes at this level of graphic and appeal and - yes - usability being a minus-6mo-to-go, agree that WT themes are usually pretty crowded reminding of real life consoles

g
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Old 11-15-2016, 01:54 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
Here's what I've been working on for the better part of a year. Its very far from done, 6 months to go would be my guess. I'm sharing it because I think its very good and the world is full of good things and on some days its good to remember that. I also want to get the WALTER out because I believe some of it could be extremely useful to other themers.

On that subject : please feel free to raid the WALTER and use whatever bits of code you might find useful (suggestion: the imageshift macros are very simple but do wonderful things). However, I must insist that you do not use any of the images or make mods of the theme or anything like that yet, let me finish first. I'm including an awful lot of code and alternative images to make modding easy and powerful, in good time.

Its just the mixer so far, that's where I started. Because, well, its Imperial.

The build I am sharing is the latest one that is currently in use by my testers. Its moderately usable. I'm not necessarily looking for feedback at the moment, I've got plenty of testers who I trust implicitly, but if you're curious then please feel free to take a look. Here's the theme file; DON'T MAKE ME REGRET SHARING IT m'kay?

Its Imperial, it looks like Imperial. But more so. The ethos remains as it was; to take a lot of space and use it to show everything at once, with generous sizing and margins to make control searching and mouse-hit easy. The old Imperial scored extremely high in function and usability testing, my hope and expectation is this will perhaps surpass it.



Imperial didn't resize because I designed it to be used full screen. Which people didn't necessarily want to do. So now its got full WALTER on every layout, so the sizes degrade elegantly:



I have made extensive use of the new custom colouring method we got in V5:



And, of course, the 'None More Black' layout is back:



...which showcases what can be done with custom colouring. I'll be doing more of this in time, and different patterns.



This layout can also be used to commit crimes against humanity:



The flat styled 'Stockholm' layout is ideal for your synth tracks:



it also has custom colouring tricks, and some pan control implementations that you might like:



Imperial was designed for big screens, and preferably two of them. But people wanted to use it on small screens. Okay, fine Here's the 'project' layout, which has full shrinking WALTER, folder indenting, and a selection of fader colours. And a None More Black variant, of course.



Speaking of small size, I've completely redesigned the Sidecar layout. It features my new iris-style stacked pan/width knobs:



It custom colours nicely, and has a sophisticated folder indentation / signal flow design that I think works well:



here's what all that stuff means:



I've based the redesigned Tracking Deck layout on the Sidecar:



and finally there are strip layouts. These have 'USER : mess with these:' sections in the WALTER so users can easily whip up variants:



Please enjoy. I might do another snapshot build once its further along, we'll see.
WOW !!!!!
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Old 11-16-2016, 07:18 PM   #110
CloseToTheEdge
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Thank you so much! You just gave my studio a facelift! Some good news, indeed. Can't wait for the final release.
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Old 11-17-2016, 02:44 AM   #111
rods
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Incredible work!!! Amazing!!!!
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Old 11-17-2016, 10:45 AM   #112
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Wow, I really love it!
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Old 11-18-2016, 02:38 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro Audio Enthusiast View Post
I trained in arts & design years ago and I have to say White Tie is a true artist, and his work, whether it is currently working or not (as he said there is still 6 months to go) is a masterpiece of design.
All the praise is highly deserved and I really think his work is in another class.

Bravo sir!




Artists occasionally like to share what they are working on. No reason need be given.

His work is brilliant. Innovative. He thinks outside the box and brings something new to the table. He's a real innovator. His work, at whatever state of completion, has every right to be shown to the world.
wtf

fucking surreal

This work, like everything he has done so far for REAPER, is bottom-pile junk by an untalented amateur. Again, I'm sorry for everyone who thinks this theme is good.
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Old 11-18-2016, 03:39 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noise_construct View Post
wtf

fucking surreal

This comment, like everything I have done so far for REAPER, is bottom-pile junk by an untalented amateur. Again, I'm sorry for everyone who thinks this comment is good.
Fixed that for you.
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Old 11-18-2016, 04:10 AM   #115
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wow that's incredible job!
But too complicated for me
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Old 11-18-2016, 04:14 AM   #116
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Fixed that for you.
oh snap!
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Old 11-18-2016, 04:29 AM   #117
Never
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Originally Posted by Sju View Post
oh snap!
....
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Old 11-18-2016, 05:08 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noise_construct View Post
wtf

fucking surreal

This work, like everything he has done so far for REAPER, is bottom-pile junk by an untalented amateur. Again, I'm sorry for everyone who thinks this theme is good.
"Oh I didn't mean to hurt you
I'm sorry that I made you cry
Oh my I didn't want to hurt you
I'm just a jealous guy"
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Old 11-18-2016, 07:52 AM   #119
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*drooooooolssssss*

Great Job
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Old 11-18-2016, 08:51 AM   #120
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Thanks WT,

Stockholm in particular looks fantastic, can't wait to see the TCP version of it.

Also really like renaming i/o to 'Source' (much more sensible / 'intuitive') but I think renaming mute to 'Cut' might take me a bit longer to get used to.
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