Old 03-13-2018, 09:54 AM   #1
playtimer
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Default v5.78pre3 - March 13 2018

v5.78pre3 - March 13 2018
+ Applications: allow other applications to insert media into REAPER; Windows: send WM_COPYDATA with dwData=0x100, MacOS: send openFile; send "#/path/to/file" to suppress option to open in new tab
+ Preferences: fix option to create new project tab when inserting media using "open with..." from explorer/finder
+ ReaSurround: in relative mode, prevent bleed into speakers at opposite edges of the space
+ VST3: fix forcing a plugin to mono if it supports more than 64 output channels [t=204324]
# ReaScript: do not allow reaper.ExecProcess() in restricted permissions mode
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:34 AM   #2
musicbynumbers
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Thanks Devs.

regarding Reasurround.

Is there a way to "link" (in a relative way) say the front left and right channels so that you only have to automate the left one and the right one will follow but at the spacing you set when you linked them?

I find that quite useful as the last project I did I had to automate a lot of stereo stems and would have been great to only have to move one set of X and Y automation.

Is there a way to do that already?

Thanks.
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Old 03-13-2018, 12:31 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by playtimer View Post
v5.78pre3 - March 13 2018
+ ReaSurround: in relative mode, prevent bleed into speakers at opposite edges of the space
Thanks! This is better, but I'm still having some issues with sound leaking into channels where I don't want it. If I have the puck all the way against the left or right edge somewhere between front and back I get bleed into the center channel


If I have the puck somewhere between left and center I get bleed into the front right channel.



If I have the puck dead center somewhere between front and back I get bleed into the front left and right channels


Basically the expected behavior for everything is as follows:

-Regardless of front/back position, if the puck is positioned 100% left or right there should be nothing coming through the center channel

-Regardless of front/back position, if the puck is positioned between left and center, there should be nothing coming through the front right, and vice versa

-Regardless of front/back position, if the puck is positioned dead center between left and right, there should be nothing coming out the front left or front right.
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Old 03-13-2018, 01:24 PM   #4
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Robin, I might be confused with what you want but I think there is an "influence" parameter that allows you to shrink the circle of influence for a particular sound/object so that it can be very direct. It's in the bottom right corner dropdown.

What might be nice though is a "avoid center" tick box per object so if you don't want to pan across the center you can. There already might be I guess?
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Old 03-13-2018, 01:40 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by RobinGShore View Post
-Regardless of front/back position, if the puck is positioned 100% left or right there should be nothing coming through the center channel

-Regardless of front/back position, if the puck is positioned between left and center, there should be nothing coming through the front right, and vice versa

-Regardless of front/back position, if the puck is positioned dead center between left and right, there should be nothing coming out the front left or front right.
I think what this needs is three speaker influence modes.

1 - absolute, where each speaker influences a sphere, and has zero influence outside the sphere. This was previously the only mode.

2 - absolute grid, where each speaker influences its grid quadrant, and has zero influence outside the quadrant.

3 - relative, where each speaker influences all inputs based on relative distance (DBAP), with no absolute cutoff at the edges of the space. This is what the relative mode was like in 5.78pre2.
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Old 03-13-2018, 03:58 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by playtimer View Post
v5.78pre3 - March 13 2018
+ Applications: allow other applications to insert media into REAPER; Windows: send WM_COPYDATA with dwData=0x100, MacOS: send openFile; send "#/path/to/file" to suppress option to open in new tab
+ Preferences: fix option to create new project tab when inserting media using "open with..." from explorer/finder
Can inserting media be done so that when media is dragged into project, new track is created at position where media is dragged to?

Now it is so that when you drag media into empty space at end, new track is created. Then you have to drag track up to desired position. But if you want to insert media somewhere in the middle, you need to first create track, then drag media into that track.

Could there be mouse modifier or something, to drag media anywhere in between tracks, and have it create new track for itself?
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Old 03-13-2018, 05:46 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
I think what this needs is three speaker influence modes.

1 - absolute, where each speaker influences a sphere, and has zero influence outside the sphere. This was previously the only mode.

2 - absolute grid, where each speaker influences its grid quadrant, and has zero influence outside the quadrant.

3 - relative, where each speaker influences all inputs based on relative distance (DBAP), with no absolute cutoff at the edges of the space. This is what the relative mode was like in 5.78pre2.
Sorry to keep bring up the Pro Tools panner here. I don't think it would be any of these modes? But it does what we need.

In the above list of 3 choices, "relative" sounds the most like what I'd want. But also the ability to get to specific speakers too, without the bleed once we get away from speakers as RobinGShore mentions, and which I also see. I can get to specific speakers discreetly, but once I move away from them I get bleed in extra channels and not just the channel I'm moving towards.

"Absolute Grid" mode looks like it wants to address that, but then we lose the ability to pan smoothly from Left Rear to Right Front without it jumping as it crosses the center. If I understand that correctly.

From my view, it looks like "Relative" is just what needs the fix. There's something funky going on between speakers with the pan law in 5.78pre3, where the level drops (in apparent level) but its also getting spread out to unwanted channels. If that bleed was directed towards the closer proximity channels we'd be more in the ballpark I think.
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:04 PM   #8
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On the Reasurround topic, I'm not sure if we've also talked about center percent. I assume that the "Center Trim" value is doing this task? It seems like it is, except in both relative and absolute mode, with Center Trim at -inf, and the puck dead center, there is no output. If the puck moves off dead center even just slightly, then the audio gets split more or less proportionally to the left and right. But it disappears at dead center, when it should be splitting the audio to the left and right equally.

Again with the Pro Tools panner reference, a puck at dead center, with center % at -inf, splits the audio to the left and right equally.
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Old 03-14-2018, 03:54 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice View Post
bleed in extra channels and not just the channel I'm moving towards.
Relative mode is a DBAP implementation. In DBAP you always have signal going to all speakers, unless you are directly on top of one speaker. You can make the individual speaker influence zones smaller, or we can make the rolloff sharper (or configurable), to distribute more signal to closer speakers and less to distant speakers. But the only way to pan from left rear to right front without any signal in other speakers is to solo left rear and right front.
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Old 03-14-2018, 09:41 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Relative mode is a DBAP implementation. In DBAP you always have signal going to all speakers, unless you are directly on top of one speaker. You can make the individual speaker influence zones smaller, or we can make the rolloff sharper (or configurable), to distribute more signal to closer speakers and less to distant speakers. But the only way to pan from left rear to right front without any signal in other speakers is to solo left rear and right front.
I won't be hard-lined about the left-rear to front right example. It was just an example how I don't think the "Absolute Grid" mode would fix what we need, while leaving "Relative" as it is.

RobinGShore has laid out the issues with Relative mode that, while drastically closer than the former absolute only mode, is still not quite what our project delivery requirements will accept.

Quote:
RobinGShore

Basically the expected behavior for everything is as follows:

-Regardless of front/back position, if the puck is positioned 100% left or right there should be nothing coming through the center channel

-Regardless of front/back position, if the puck is positioned between left and center, there should be nothing coming through the front right, and vice versa

-Regardless of front/back position, if the puck is positioned dead center between left and right, there should be nothing coming out the front left or front right.
The solution is beyond my skill set. I don't know about the formulas and all that. I don't know what the Pro Tools panner is doing (and other similar panners), but its still the result we/I need one way or the other. mrlimbic has been reverse engineering it so I'm curious to give that a try too.
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Old 03-14-2018, 09:58 AM   #11
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Quote:
The solution is beyond my skill set. I don't know about the formulas and all that.
^Heh-bruv-this is not beyond you,or anybody else-- 'issues' arise because of stereo pairs--a solution is in place by using tracks,faders+sends for surround outputs.
Proper hardware monitoring via metering is not always an option itb.
A more reafined solution {imo} is to simply have mono tracks-no pans,just volume there.Better visual feedback of routings per channel perhaps.
Cockos might then need to decide more on final encodings/exporting options for distributions to *standardized* decoders.-problem is,there are no standards in place globally..so.. it's a mishmash atmo between developers,players and users setups/devices.
Cockos can see what's in 'their' box-but not users itb+otb interfaces or routings.
Dolby have their thing,so do other companies and software developers--they are not really reading from the same book,not alone same pages..
All these things are of the same pie-we might want a piece of that pie-some get larger portions,some get smaller portions--it's just like mixing-levels of 'currents' =making pie..
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Old 03-14-2018, 12:42 PM   #12
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Apologies for a Quick question here because i think only Devs know:

Short explainer regards the 'write buffer' (advanced) settings ? (Default is no buffer)

I have had some glitched takes on a busy project where I needed low latency.

Have turned on write buffer to ensure contiguous recordings, is that a good idea or has side effects?

Thanks
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Old 03-14-2018, 02:33 PM   #13
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I'm not sure if you tweaked something or if something changed on my end but render speed w/o plugins is back to how it used to be. Super fast from start to finish.

Thank you.
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Old 03-14-2018, 05:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
+ Applications: allow other applications to insert media into REAPER; Windows: send WM_COPYDATA with dwData=0x100
Interesting! Inserts media on the selected track at the edit cursor!

Note: The project isn't aware media was added to it though and doesn't warn me about saving the project when I closed it, Also this media is not added to the UnDo history list.
EDIT
If you click in the arrange area Reaper then updates titlebar text, UnDo list, and will ask to save on close, etc..

I guess I'm doing it right, seems to work
Code:
' VB.Net WinForm code,
Dim cds As New COPYDATASTRUCT
cds.dwData = CType(&H100, IntPtr)
cds.lpData = "#M:\Applause.wav" ' WAV from M:\, # = current project tab.
cds.cbData = cds.lpData.Length + 1
SendMessage(hWndReaper, WM_COPYDATA, Me.Handle, cds)
Win7_x64

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Old 03-15-2018, 03:34 AM   #15
jm duchenne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Relative mode is a DBAP implementation. In DBAP you always have signal going to all speakers, unless you are directly on top of one speaker. You can make the individual speaker influence zones smaller, or we can make the rolloff sharper (or configurable), to distribute more signal to closer speakers and less to distant speakers. But the only way to pan from left rear to right front without any signal in other speakers is to solo left rear and right front.
Yes, these are the limits of the DBAP, and they show the same in GRM-Tools Spaces or Flux Spat Revolution.
In Spaces there is a slider to control the rolloff sharpness that gives some solution, but it has also a drawback since the transition between the "influence zones" is less progressive.
But it will be very useful to have here too.

The VBAP is kind of a solution to avoid bleeding farther than 3 speakers, but it is also a limits for low resolution surround (5.1).

The "old" absolute mode in ReaSurround was in fact an excellent idea since, with some work, you can control precisely what you want and where. At least in 2D.
Its problem is that it is difficult to constrain the influence spheres in a square.
The non spherical influence zones you have shown in another post can be a very good option. Is there a chance to have it implemented ?

With fixed "panners" like in Protools, it is easier because the user cannot choose the number and the places of the speakers...


Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
2 - absolute grid, where each speaker influences its grid quadrant, and has zero influence outside the quadrant.
I am curious to see what this means !

Last edited by jm duchenne; 03-15-2018 at 03:39 AM.
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Old 03-15-2018, 11:30 AM   #16
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I think what this needs is three speaker influence modes.
2 - absolute grid, where each speaker influences its grid quadrant, and has zero influence outside the quadrant.
Not sure I totally understand what this would be, but if you mean using rectangular shaped influence zones instead of circles, that seems like a step in the right direction. I think in order for it to work the way we want though it would need to be able to have zones that are not all a perfect square (e.g a zone that is taller than it is wide)
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