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Old 10-14-2018, 07:09 PM   #1
sjs94704
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Default I'm struggling to find a good vocal reverb & can use some help ...

So far, almost all of the reverb I have tried have not worked out so good for one reason or another and I am still somewhat of a NOVICE when it comes to knowing how to make adjustments to all the settings that are available.

I am glad those settings are there, but, as I said, I just am not yet in a place where I have had a chance to learn all that stuff real well quite yet.

This is part of the reason it has been taking me awhile to produce any music is because of this struggle with vocal reverb.

What I would appreciate is if anyone out there who uses vocals a lot can recommend a FREE reverb that you like to use that has some nice presets that I can try out to see if they will work for me.

If you can do that I would be grateful.

Thank you so much!
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Old 10-14-2018, 07:30 PM   #2
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https://www.kvraudio.com/product/ori...-denis-tihanov

Also use these in ReaVerb:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=130497

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Old 10-14-2018, 08:32 PM   #3
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http://www.zynaptiq.com/subspace/ limited but what it can do is very high quality
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Old 10-14-2018, 09:42 PM   #4
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I have the 64-bit version of Reaper. Since I have to manually place these DLL files where they are supposed to go I was wondering if someone can confirm the exact directory path that these plugins should be going into?

I downloaded this OrilRiver as well as one called Reverb Solo and neither one are showing up in my list of VSTS. I have LOTS of VST's that a friend gave me a long time ago and I do not see them in the obvious places.
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Old 10-14-2018, 09:54 PM   #5
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I have the 64-bit version of Reaper. Since I have to manually place these DLL files where they are supposed to go I was wondering if someone can confirm the exact directory path that these plugins should be going into?

I downloaded this OrilRiver as well as one called Reverb Solo and neither one are showing up in my list of VSTS. I have LOTS of VST's that a friend gave me a long time ago and I do not see them in the obvious places.
you have to put the OrilRiver one somewhere yourself - if you didn't then it is in your downloads folder. On my window installation I have a folder C:\VSTplugins and tend to put VST's in that
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Old 10-14-2018, 10:06 PM   #6
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CByHPXk3Flw
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Old 10-14-2018, 10:40 PM   #7
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Got It!

One thing that I just realized is that in my options under VST where you can specify the directories to look in, the problem was that the root directory of C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins as well as C:\Program Files(x86)\VSTPlugins was not listed.

The ones that were listed were more specific than that so Reaper did not see the ones in the directories listed above. So, to anyone else having a similar issue, under your VST options, just be sure that the directories in your VST options are listed just like as I have above so that Reaper will see whatever you install.

Thanks James! I have not tried it out yet but I will tomorrow and report back on how it works for me!

So you know, all the other Reverb choices I have made, my family and friends have all commented that there is just too much what they are calling 'Echo' in my voice, so I am looking for something that has Reverb but that does NOT do that on vocals!
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Old 10-14-2018, 10:52 PM   #8
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<snip>
So you know, all the other Reverb choices I have made, my family and friends have all commented that there is just too much what they are calling 'Echo' in my voice, so I am looking for something that has Reverb but that does NOT do that on vocals!
Maybe you do this already, but anyway... Put the reverb as FX on a track different from track where your vocals are, and then send the vocals to the reverb track. Now you can adjust the volume on the reverb track to get as much or little reverb as you want.
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:09 PM   #9
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Maybe you do this already, but anyway... Put the reverb as FX on a track different from track where your vocals are, and then send the vocals to the reverb track. Now you can adjust the volume on the reverb track to get as much or little reverb as you want.
Yes, I have done that. Now I think it is simply a matter of getting the right intensity of the reverb I am using which I think just takes practice....
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:17 PM   #10
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Glad to help!

Yes I've heard some of your clips and you do use a lot of reverb. It's not the reverb's fault that you use so much of it. If you keep using the same reverb, but just turn it down, that would probably be fine. But also it's fun to try new tools and see what works best for you.

I have been incredibly picky about reverb, and what I've finally settled on is using impulses (mostly the ones I linked) with ReaVerb, also using the trim/stretch tool to shape the sound. (Oh also check the "zl" button for zero latency when using ReaVerb.) Honestly though as picky as I am about reverb, I hear examples often of people using plugins that I'd "never use" for reverb and getting very good results in a mix (ReaVerbate is one of those plugins; I'm not a fan of it). Sometimes what works best for a mix isn't what we think sounds best to us out of context. It's like eating some spice right out of a container compared to having a dish prepared with that spice as part of it.
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:44 PM   #11
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OK, here is one of the concepts I am still trying to get a handle on. As you know there are so many check boxes, buttons, meters, levers and so on that for someone who has never done true mixing before can easily get confusing. So, I hope I will describe all of this right.

1. There is the fader of the track

2. I have an Fx track where my Reverb lives. There is a send from my Vox track to my Fx track. There is a horizontal volume control for the RECEIVE of my Vox track located on my Fx track.

3. There is the wet/dry adjustment of the actual Reverb plugin itself.

So, just to clarify, for adjusting the intensity of the reverb, which one of these should I use?

Finally, I learn best by watching videos. Can you refer me to one or more that explains when I should use each one of these volume controls and why? (From a beginners point of view)

PS- If there is not a comprehensive video about this that would be a great idea to make one that explains each one of these in detail showing when any WHY I would want to use each one of these...
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Old 10-15-2018, 12:08 AM   #12
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You're not going to like the answer, and that is "do whatever works for you". That's what I do. There is no one answer. It depends on how you work, that's all. That's why there are so many volume/gain controls everywhere. They all work fine. Pick whichever makes the most sense for you to use. If one won't work well for you, then change how you work (example: if you're not getting enough send level to the reverb for instance, and you need to turn that up, just do it). For that matter remember that sends can be set to be pre- or post-fader (and also pre-fx which is also pre-fader).

If you want to learn what makes a reverb sound the way it does, you'll have to do what I did: mess with the controls. Starting with presets helps. But don't be afraid to try the controls. Some are going to be more obvious, so start with those (reverb time, damping, etc.) Once you get a handle on that, move on to the more subtle things.

If there really were videos showing you "how to do this properly" I'd gladly link you to them. The best you'll find is someone saying "this is how I do it for my workflow". If I show you exactly how I work, there's nothing saying you'll want to work the same way (I expect you won't, actually). That's ok though. Have fun!
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Old 10-15-2018, 12:25 AM   #13
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OK ......
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Old 10-15-2018, 12:59 AM   #14
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or you could just have the reverb on the vocal track and adjust its wet/dry balance. Start with all dry and gradually turn the knob / slider to wet until it sounds good. Then back it off a little coz you are listenig for the reverb and will still probably overdo it
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Old 10-15-2018, 05:57 AM   #15
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OK, here is one of the concepts I am still trying to get a handle on. As you know there are so many check boxes, buttons, meters, levers and so on that for someone who has never done true mixing before can easily get confusing. So, I hope I will describe all of this right.

1. There is the fader of the track

2. I have an Fx track where my Reverb lives. There is a send from my Vox track to my Fx track. There is a horizontal volume control for the RECEIVE of my Vox track located on my Fx track.

3. There is the wet/dry adjustment of the actual Reverb plugin itself.

So, just to clarify, for adjusting the intensity of the reverb, which one of these should I use?
1. Use this to control the overall level for the audio on that track.
If you open the i/o panel you'll see Volume and Pan controls above the Send and Receive areas.
These are the same controls as the fader and pan controls on the track.

2. the horizontal RECEIVE control corresponds to the horizontal SEND control of the track sending the audio.
move one then open the other and see it is now in the new position.
You can use these to change the level going to the dedicated reverb track without changing the volume level of the original track.
This allows you to adjust each signal going to the same dedicated reverb track separately giving each it's own amount of reverb.
It's probably best for you, at least for now, to set the send as 'Post-Fader (Post-Pan)'.
This means when you turn the track fader down, all signals from that track are turned down, which is likely what you want it to do right now.

3. if the Reverb is on a track dedicated to the reverb only, turn this control to fully wet and used the Send/Receive level control to set the amount of reverb used for the track sending the audio.
If you have the reverb in the FX section on the audio track itself, then use the Wet/Dry control to set the amount of reverb used for that track.

Reverbs can quickly use a lot of processing power, so if you're using the same reverb for several audio tracks, it's a good option to to put it on a dedicated reverb track and send the audio to it instead.
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Old 10-15-2018, 07:01 AM   #16
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Thanks everyone!

All good information .... I'm taking it all in ....

I am off to experiment and see what happens and will keep you posted ....
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Old 10-16-2018, 06:43 AM   #17
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Default Eq'ing the Reverb

Sometimes (or frequently) it can be benificial to actually EQ the reverb.

It could be good to start out with a "plate" type reverb if you don't want any first reflections that would be more echoey. Plate reverb types tend to go immediately into a diffuse reverb without having any discreet echo's involved.

Then you could try high passing and low passing of the reverb to narrow its range to make it less "big and wet". This is done often in vocals just to add a nice splash without sounding too ominous.

You can also set the EQ for bandpass and sweep the frequency to see if removing certain frequencies make the reverb more desirable or fitting for the vocal.

And you never know, it may be a more quick "room" or "small hall" type that works, where it decays more quickly and gets out of the way of the flow of lyrics, gives the words room to live.

Have fun!

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Old 10-17-2018, 07:41 AM   #18
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Just for fun I think I am going to pick a song that I like and know how to sing well (at least I think so) and record it several times using each of these suggestions and then post all of them on my Sound Cloud page.

Once I do that I will announce it and ask people who want to to listen to them and provide feedback about which Reverb you feel sounds best.

Now, yes, I know that I can't rely on the same Reverb for all songs, but at least it can give me a place to start.

Also, I have MTurboReverb plugin and it gives me full control over both early and late reflections. However, I have not yet had the chance to learn about how each of these work and decide when to use either one, etc.

I learn best by watching videos. I'm not sure what to put in the search box to find one (or more), but I'm wondering if anyone can help me locate a video(s) that explain in as much detail as possible all about early/late reflections.

If you can do that I would be grateful.....

PS - Thanks Phil for your suggestion .... I appreciate your time to share all that information. It really helps me get an idea of how to manage Reverb. I will for SURE try it out and see what happens .....
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Old 10-17-2018, 03:18 PM   #19
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Early reflections = sound of the immediate space near the sound source (singer, in your case), the fastest/shortest part of the reverb. So by itself, it usually sounds "like a small room" (although it's meant to be part of the whole, that's a general way of thinking about it). Increasing this means adding a bit of "close echo sound".

Late reflections = makes the "room sound" bigger/deeper. It's the longer part of the reverb.

Balancing those elements will be important to finding the sound you want. But there are so many ways to do this and it depends on what you prefer. You can even use a really long/dense reverb sound in your mix, but just turn it down low (and EQ it, if it's on a separate bus, to sound thinner and less noticeable).
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Old 10-18-2018, 02:32 PM   #20
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I learn best by watching videos. I'm not sure what to put in the search box to find one (or more), but I'm wondering if anyone can help me locate a video(s) that explain in as much detail as possible all about early/late reflections.
Just search for "using reverb on vocals" on youtube and you'll find a lot instructional stuff
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Old 10-19-2018, 02:42 AM   #21
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The Dead Duck plugins are pretty easy to use.
The Free Effects Bundle has a reverb included.
http://deadducksoftware.blogspot.com...ts-bundle.html

It also includes a chorus, mono delay and stereo delay, as well as many other usuable plugins all with a simple 'knobs-on-a-panel' interface.
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:48 PM   #22
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The Dead Duck plugins are pretty easy to use.
The Free Effects Bundle has a reverb included.
http://deadducksoftware.blogspot.com...ts-bundle.html

It also includes a chorus, mono delay and stereo delay, as well as many other usuable plugins all with a simple 'knobs-on-a-panel' interface.
thank you so much for this link, for once, free plugins where I don't have to register first

there are some really useful stuff, like LPF and HPFs, channel strip, noise gates etc.

thanks for sharing

off to try setting up a reverb track and learning how sends work in Reaper
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Old 10-20-2018, 06:03 AM   #23
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I usually prefer to start off working completely dry, but maybe the OP wouldn't have that option with his pre-recorded backing tracks.

Then an overall "room" reverb buss set 100% wet with the sends on the individual tracks determining the extent to which each gets 'verbed. This approach is often enough, but of course if you want to use reverb as an effect, you can knock yourself out.

Sometimes a really fast slapback delay on the solo track to psychoacoustically "bring it forwards" works nicely too. The OP might want to investigate that possibility. Simply put, a single delay repeat timed at no more than 80ms makes it seem like that part is at the front of the stage. Trick is that you're not supposed to hear the delay-ay. You're just supposed to feel that the part is "moved forwards".

Way beyond the context here, but additionally, I have a more complicated procedure for processing bigger things like orchestras. I mentally arrange them in "ranks" front to back and set up a gradated dash of "preverb" and EQ adjustment for each rank in addition to the overall reverb. The preverbs are additive so can be arranged in busses, the EQ cuts have to be applied on each track. No big deal - that's what templates and presets are for.

Some people prefer to work with just whatever front micing you've used (XY, Decca, outriggers or whatever) or output from one complete sample library. But when you're dealing with reinforcement micing (very often with an orchestra) or combining different sample libraries, the best way to place everything in acoustic space is to start dry and add the spacial element with FX.
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Old 10-21-2018, 07:27 AM   #24
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One thing I've noticed after mixing for 40 years is the best mixers use very small amounts of effects, especially reverb. They turn it up till it's barely noticable, then back down by a half of a dB or so.

No one can tell you what is best for your mix, and there are no magic plugins that will make everything sound great. Just listen, play with the knobs, and (over time) you get better at it.

It is said it takes 10000 hours to master any particular skill. That's 5 years of 40 hour weeks. There is a good reason some people are good enough to do this for a living and others are not. It's because they put in their time and 'paid their dues.' Put in the time; do the work; and you'll get better without even realizing it.
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Old 10-21-2018, 08:05 AM   #25
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So far, almost all of the reverb I have tried have not worked out so good for one reason or another and I am still somewhat of a NOVICE when it comes to knowing how to make adjustments to all the settings that are available.

I am glad those settings are there, but, as I said, I just am not yet in a place where I have had a chance to learn all that stuff real well quite yet.

This is part of the reason it has been taking me awhile to produce any music is because of this struggle with vocal reverb.

What I would appreciate is if anyone out there who uses vocals a lot can recommend a FREE reverb that you like to use that has some nice presets that I can try out to see if they will work for me.

If you can do that I would be grateful.

Thank you so much!
You were off to a good start in another thread you posted about vocal reverb with an eq on your reverb bus. My advice would be to work that. Start with large brush strokes (to use an analogy).

As you turn up the reverb bus it goes from not enough to too much right?
Identify what part is "too much"!
Start crude. Roll off all the highs with the reverb bus eq. Was that it?
Roll off all the lows instead. How about that?
Maybe both? (Hint: It's common to roll off all the highs and all the lows on a reverb bus.)

Get a little more in depth now: Is there some midrange frequency poking out that sounds bad? Try to find that and cut just that.


Start with the best sounding reverb out of the box initially. Flip through a few until one doesn't completely such. Then go after that eq.


Don't be afraid of screwing up work in progress. If you kind of like a reverb you have dialed up but want to experiment further... Mute the current reverb bus track and make a new one to experiment with. Now compare them and pick the one you like best.

Happy reverberation!


PS. It's rare that some reverb is going to come right out of the box default and just work for you for a particular song. That's like expecting someone else's playlist to happen to be perfect for you to attempt an analogy. Working an eq on the reverb is an easy way to dial it in.
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Old 10-21-2018, 08:07 AM   #26
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I appreciate everyone's input. I have read what you all have said and will use your suggestions as best as I can.

However, I also wanted to be clear about something. That is, I do and always have understood that there is no 'Magic Answer' to anything in mixing. So, it is unfortunate if anyone has ever got that impression by this or any other question I have ever asked.
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Old 10-21-2018, 08:21 AM   #27
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For a simple free one-stop multi-FX plugin (which is lightweight, very beginner friendly and includes loads of presets) try Luxonix LFX-1310. It's not a dedicated vocal reverb, but then I don't really think such a beast actually exists. And aside from more funky stuff to make you sound like you're on the phone or a robot or whatever, there are a lot of intuitive room, stage and hall presets.

It's ancient by today's standards, so don't expect whizzbang such as convolution impulses and such. But it's a very solid starting point.
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Old 10-21-2018, 08:29 AM   #28
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I appreciate everyone's input. I have read what you all have said and will use your suggestions as best as I can.

However, I also wanted to be clear about something. That is, I do and always have understood that there is no 'Magic Answer' to anything in mixing. So, I is unfortunate if anyone has ever got that impression by this or any other question I have ever asked.
All good. I don't think it's intuitive how you need to work reverb a bit to make it work for a mix. Hence asking for reverb examples that might just work like that. It's a fair thing to ask. And there might be scenarios where something DOES just work right away.

I think experimenting with your reverb bus eq will get you results the quickest and also open your eyes (ears) to how to work reverb in a mix.
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Old 10-21-2018, 09:02 AM   #29
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You were off to a good start in another thread you posted about vocal reverb with an eq on your reverb bus. My advice would be to work that. Start with large brush strokes (to use an analogy).

As you turn up the reverb bus it goes from not enough to too much right?
Identify what part is "too much"!
Start crude. Roll off all the highs with the reverb bus eq. Was that it?
Roll off all the lows instead. How about that?
Maybe both? (Hint: It's common to roll off all the highs and all the lows on a reverb bus.)

Get a little more in depth now: Is there some midrange frequency poking out that sounds bad? Try to find that and cut just that.


Start with the best sounding reverb out of the box initially. Flip through a few until one doesn't completely such. Then go after that eq.


Don't be afraid of screwing up work in progress. If you kind of like a reverb you have dialed up but want to experiment further... Mute the current reverb bus track and make a new one to experiment with. Now compare them and pick the one you like best.

Happy reverberation!


PS. It's rare that some reverb is going to come right out of the box default and just work for you for a particular song. That's like expecting someone else's playlist to happen to be perfect for you to attempt an analogy. Working an eq on the reverb is an easy way to dial it in.
I know it is going to take awhile to learn all of this stuff, but, what I did do when I first got Reaper is purchase MTurboReverb from Melda Productions.

Aside from Reverb itself, Melda also offers a fantastic FREE bundle. What I do like about Melda's VSTs the most is their GUIs.

When you talk about rolling off the Highs and Lows, while I totally get that 'out of the box' might not always work, their MEqualizer does have a preset called 'Voice' that appears to do just that. At least by starting with that preset I know visually what it is supposed to look like when I do roll of the highs and lows. And the MEqualizer is a nice 6-band full featured equalizer.

I have lots to learn, but, to me when a GUI looks like the ones that Melda offers, while at first it is a bit overwhelming and in some ways still is, it makes it easier to figure out what to do!

I would also say this. I have always said that I am a visual learner. Yes, I am beginning to get familiar with the terminology of mixing. But, whenever I ask a question about something, especially if it is something new for me, it can be hard sometimes to translate when someones says for example, "Just roll off the highs and lows". Well, OK, I can do that, but, if I, like many others have never actually seen what that looks like visually, how would I know if I am doing it right.

Now, I'm not suggesting that anyone hold my hand and walk me or anyone else down that yellow brick road of mixing. Not at all. I am simply putting it out there to you all that sometimes, some people because of the way they learn can have this challenge of translating written instruction into reality.

I guess that is why I have often inquired about presets so I can see visually what a particular 'whatever' I am looking for to work with looks like, not necessarily that the preset 'as is' is the way things are going to stay ... So, before anyone says, "OMG! Here we go with preset again!", it is just a visual starting point ...not my end game!
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