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Old 05-17-2020, 09:55 AM   #1
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Default Anyone using Reaper with Linux and many plugins / VST synths

Hi,

I have the impression that most of the people here are using Reaper to record Audio and that most go for low latency. Are here any people making electronic music in the broadest sense with Reaper in Linux with lot's of VSTs?

Personally I'm only using VSTs available in Linux.

I wonder in what problems other people run when using Reaper in such a way (e.g. Xruns, issues with Jack, Alsa, etc.).
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Old 05-17-2020, 11:05 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by lilith93 View Post
Hi,

I have the impression that most of the people here are using Reaper to record Audio and that most go for low latency. Are here any people making electronic music in the broadest sense with Reaper in Linux with lot's of VSTs?

Personally I'm only using VSTs available in Linux.

I wonder in what problems other people run when using Reaper in such a way (e.g. Xruns, issues with Jack, Alsa, etc.).
While not "electronica", this one has only 3 audio tracks plus 22 bridged Windows VSTi tracks.

Here's a screenshot of that project. Only the bass, rhythm, and solo guitars are audio tracks. All of it was recorded in real time at very low latency.
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Old 05-17-2020, 11:21 AM   #3
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Hey hey, REAPER/Bitwig here.

i7-7700K

I think my safezone is at 128 blocksize with Alsa and periods 3 because Babyface Pro is through USB and 3 is recommended for USB i think i've read.
I am not totally scientifically sure yet but yeah, try non low latency and if 128 still give you crackles, try turn off or on hyperthreading if you have that.
If i use low latency or even realtime then if the DAW is loading/searching the HD, i can get resonant baud modem sounds in my ear, aka, "crackles"

Linux for me is still young, think i have tweaks to learn and, you can also try out Liqourix kernel that is more optimized for Desktops, someone said Linux main and Linux itself is or was, focused on servers, but i think even the main one works good enough for me now, just a tip ive seen.

Bonus ideas:
i'm trying to have the soundcard on the USB front panel, alone! rest can live on the back "if that helps
Also i think i've read .. that Nvidia on auto power mode can be seen as a Deamon and full power should be better, where ever i read that.. but hey!
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Old 05-17-2020, 11:45 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
While not "electronica", this one has only 3 audio tracks plus 22 bridged Windows VSTi tracks.

Here's a screenshot of that project. Only the bass, rhythm, and solo guitars are audio tracks. All of it was recorded in real time at very low latency.
-
Not exactly my cup of tea or what I usually listen to, but I like it and the mix is totally breathing! Reminds me a bit of Zappa maybe. What theme is this? And your project looks so clean. My projects look like chaos. If you have a tip how to get this more ordered ... ?

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Old 05-17-2020, 11:56 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmajjL View Post
Hey hey, REAPER/Bitwig here.

i7-7700K

I think my safezone is at 128 blocksize with Alsa and periods 3 because Babyface Pro is through USB and 3 is recommended for USB i think i've read.
I am not totally scientifically sure yet but yeah, try non low latency and if 128 still give you crackles, try turn off or on hyperthreading if you have that.
If i use low latency or even realtime then if the DAW is loading/searching the HD, i can get resonant baud modem sounds in my ear, aka, "crackles"

Linux for me is still young, think i have tweaks to learn and, you can also try out Liqourix kernel that is more optimized for Desktops, someone said Linux main and Linux itself is or was, focused on servers, but i think even the main one works good enough for me now, just a tip ive seen.

Bonus ideas:
i'm trying to have the soundcard on the USB front panel, alone! rest can live on the back "if that helps
Also i think i've read .. that Nvidia on auto power mode can be seen as a Deamon and full power should be better, where ever i read that.. but hey!
I really don't low latency, 10ms is absolutely fine. I just played my recent project at 128 samples and gives sporadic xruns. I 'm surprised that it even plays without complete stuttering. Usually I use 512 or even 1024 samples.

I don't know if this is already considered big:



It uses Repro-5, Repro.1 Diva, etc. These are quite CPU heavy. Nevertheless the RT load is only ~45% maximum and ~20% on average. When playing the track with 128 samples I maybe get ~5 xruns.

I'm even not using any low latency or RT kernel, because I think it won't improve my situation as I'm not going for super low latency.

Basically everything is working fine. When the projects are growing larger (like the one above) I'm starting to get xruns when I move the playhead in stopped transport mode. I doesn't matter, but I'm really curious why this happens. It also only happens with Jack, not with Alsa. I opened another thread here.
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Old 05-17-2020, 12:00 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by lilith93 View Post
Not exactly my cup of tea or what I usually listen to, but I like it and the mix is totally breathing! Reminds me a bit of Zappa maybe. What theme is this? And your project looks so clean. My projects look like chaos. If you have a tip how to get this more ordered ... ?
Thanks. I knew when I posted that you were referring to true electronic music. Also, I've been influenced by Frank Zappa's music since I was 11 years old listening to the Mothers of Invention's "Absolutely Free" album.

The theme I use is a version of White Tie's Imperial theme, modded by Lucas to fit a single monitor and toned down to a darker hue.

Here's a link.

https://stash.reaper.fm/theme/1747/L...Short_Dark.zip

As for making neater your screenshot, I always keep collapsed all my envelope lanes, and toggle them visible only when needed with an "e", which I think is a default key for toggling. Other than that, I'm not sure what else you could do to make it look cleaner.
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Old 05-17-2020, 12:06 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
Thanks. I knew when I posted that you were referring to true electronic music. Also, I've been influenced by Frank Zappa's music since I was 11 years old listening to the Mothers of Invention's "Absolutely Free" album.

The theme I use is a version of White Tie's Imperial theme, modded by Lucas to fit a single monitor and toned down to a darker hue.

Here's a link.

https://stash.reaper.fm/theme/1747/L...Short_Dark.zip

As for making neater your screenshot, I always keep collapsed all my envelope lanes, and toggle them visible only when needed with an "e", which I think is a default key for toggling. Other than that, I'm not sure what else you could do to make it look cleaner.
Thanks... checking out the theme. I have one Zappa record on vinyl (Freak out!) and I also like the Hot Rats album.
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Old 05-17-2020, 12:07 PM   #8
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For what it is worth, on my system and on Windows10 i did a test with Diva with some heavy patch and reached 18-19 instances i think, would not surprise me if one can get more of the Linux version, have to try that "zoonish" i only own Hive2 so far though.
What system are you on?
Ps, schmajjl also check out theme, thx
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Old 05-17-2020, 12:14 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by SmajjL View Post
For what it is worth, on my system and on Windows10 i did a test with Diva with some heavy patch and reached 18-19 instances i think, would not surprise me if one can get more of the Linux version, have to try that "zoonish" i only own Hive2 so far though.
What system are you on?
Ps, schmajjl also check out theme, thx
Debian 10 since October, before Debian 9 and before KXStudio (KDE)
I never used Windows seriously for music.

It depends a lot on which preset you use for Diva and how many notes are played, etc. When I compare Reaper to Bitwig or Renoise I can load much more into Reaper. Checked also Bitwig, but didn't buy it yet. I think I'll stay with Reaper on the long run.
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Old 05-17-2020, 12:15 PM   #10
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That's the playhead issue:

https://vimeo.com/419664946

In case someone stumbles over the same. When transport is on that does not happen.
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Old 05-17-2020, 12:28 PM   #11
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Yeah, REAPER is a keeper, not going anywhere and REAPER is a rock!

I wondered what system/CPU you are on because if you are on a little Pi gizmo, then you are doing RrrReally well.

Now when you mentioned it, i've been trying out Distros like a Tarzan and out of the box, it surprised me abit that LMDE4 did.. actually give me hell in terms of crackles..
I went hey!! you are a Debian, c'mon now! *Slap!* but ofc, did not help
Could be that Kernels have improved but Debian default is not so up to date, i - dunno..
Could be me also, my test/visit was not very professional fair
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Old 05-17-2020, 12:31 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by SmajjL View Post
Yeah, REAPER is a keeper, not going anywhere and REAPER is a rock!

I wondered what system/CPU you are on because if you are on a little Pi gizmo, then you are doing RrrReally well.

Now when you mentioned it, i've been trying out Distros like a Tarzan and out of the box, it surprised me abit that LMDE4 did.. actually give me hell in terms of crackles..
I went hey!! you are a Debian, c'mon now! *Slap!* but ofc, did not help
Could be that Kernels have improved but Debian default is not so up to date, i - dunno..
Could be me also, my test/visit was not very professional fair
It's an i5 from 2015. I paid ~650€ for the whole system and it's very solid. Never had a problem with it.

CPU:
Topology: Quad Core model: Intel Core i5-4460 bits: 64 type: MCP
L2 cache: 6144 KiB
Speed: 3248 MHz min/max: 800/3400 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 3248 2: 3270
3: 3265 4: 3249
Graphics:
Device-1: Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics
driver: i915 v: kernel
Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.4 driver: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa
resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz
OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Haswell Desktop v: 4.5 Mesa 18.3.6
Audio:
Device-1: Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor HD Audio
driver: N/A
Device-2: AKAI Professional M.I. type: USB
driver: hid-generic,snd-usb-audio,usbhid
Device-3: Roland type: USB driver: snd-usb-audio
Sound Server: ALSA v: k4.19.0-9-amd64
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Old 05-17-2020, 12:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
Thanks. I knew when I posted that you were referring to true electronic music. Also, I've been influenced by Frank Zappa's music since I was 11 years old listening to the Mothers of Invention's "Absolutely Free" album.

The theme I use is a version of White Tie's Imperial theme, modded by Lucas to fit a single monitor and toned down to a darker hue.

Here's a link.

https://stash.reaper.fm/theme/1747/L...Short_Dark.zip

As for making neater your screenshot, I always keep collapsed all my envelope lanes, and toggle them visible only when needed with an "e", which I think is a default key for toggling. Other than that, I'm not sure what else you could do to make it look cleaner.
I like it and I guess I will use it. It feels very warm with all these lit knobs.
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Old 05-17-2020, 12:49 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by lilith93 View Post
That's the playhead issue:

https://vimeo.com/419664946

In case someone stumbles over the same. When transport is on that does not happen.
In another post you said,

"It also only happens with Jack, not with Alsa",

which makes me ask the question, is there a reason to not use ALSA? I switched from using JACK shortly after Justin made a few tweaks to the ALSA code, and since ALSA is one layer closer to the physical hardware, I figured it would ultimately be more efficient, which matters even more when many clock eating plugins are being used.
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Old 05-17-2020, 01:19 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
In another post you said,

"It also only happens with Jack, not with Alsa",

which makes me ask the question, is there a reason to not use ALSA? I switched from using JACK shortly after Justin made a few tweaks to the ALSA code, and since ALSA is one layer closer to the physical hardware, I figured it would ultimately be more efficient, which matters even more when many clock eating plugins are being used.
It's not a real problem, cause it only occurs when moving the playhead. But still it can drive me crazy. I think I give this xrun counter too much importance. As my new audio interface (in contrast to the Zoom R8) is also working fine with Alsa I guess I really switch to Alsa. When recording stuff from youtube I still can use Jack.

And the second advantage is that I can focus more on the music than on youtube .
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Old 05-17-2020, 01:40 PM   #16
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It's not a real problem, cause it only occurs when moving the playhead. But still it can drive me crazy. I think I give this xrun counter too much importance. As my new audio interface (in contrast to the Zoom R8) is also working fine with Alsa I guess I really switch to Alsa. When recording stuff from youtube I still can use Jack.

And the second advantage is that I can focus more on the music than on youtube .
Shit: Just was using Alsa and Reaper crashed with message "bus error". The same I got when using the synchronous mode in Jack.
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Old 05-17-2020, 01:46 PM   #17
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It's not a real problem, cause it only occurs when moving the playhead. But still it can drive me crazy. I think I give this xrun counter too much importance. As my new audio interface (in contrast to the Zoom R8) is also working fine with Alsa I guess I really switch to Alsa. When recording stuff from youtube I still can use Jack.

And the second advantage is that I can focus more on the music than on youtube .
Funny you should mention recording from YouTube, because I just two days ago I found a bunch of isolated tracks from hit radio songs on YouTube and decided to see if I could record them in REAPER and then manually line them up so I could mix the song.

I switched REAPER to Pulse Audio because I don't have JACK installed, but was able to record what was playing in my monitors, ending up with individual tracks that I could mix.

This was the page I stumbled on.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSS...t=da&flow=grid

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Old 05-17-2020, 01:57 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
Thanks. I knew when I posted that you were referring to true electronic music. Also, I've been influenced by Frank Zappa's music since I was 11 years old listening to the Mothers of Invention's "Absolutely Free" album.

The theme I use is a version of White Tie's Imperial theme, modded by Lucas to fit a single monitor and toned down to a darker hue.

Here's a link.

https://stash.reaper.fm/theme/1747/L...Short_Dark.zip

As for making neater your screenshot, I always keep collapsed all my envelope lanes, and toggle them visible only when needed with an "e", which I think is a default key for toggling. Other than that, I'm not sure what else you could do to make it look cleaner.
All perfect except of the missing FX button in Editor view
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Old 05-17-2020, 03:22 PM   #19
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All perfect except of the missing FX button in Editor view
Found it. It's on the right side.
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Old 05-17-2020, 03:55 PM   #20
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Found it. It's on the right side.
Cool! I love that theme and have been using it for at least a couple if not three years now. I've tried others, but I keep coming back to this one.
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Old 05-17-2020, 06:53 PM   #21
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KDE isn't as good as the other DEs for performance in Reaper; I'd tested it in a few distros and it always had worse performance when pushing the CPU and/or using low latency settings. KDE has a file indexer "Baloo" which will cause those issues. Disabling it is apparently a bit tricky since it re-enables itself and doesn't like being removed. I probably won't go back to KDE, but I wanted to mention this for you or anyone else using it and having issues compared to XFCE etc.
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Old 05-17-2020, 11:34 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by lilith93 View Post
Not exactly my cup of tea or what I usually listen to, but I like it and the mix is totally breathing! Reminds me a bit of Zappa maybe. What theme is this? And your project looks so clean. My projects look like chaos. If you have a tip how to get this more ordered ... ?

I found a template/workflow on Youtube that I copied. Works ok for me. It's on Cubase but you can do the same in Reaper.

https://youtu.be/YrRrqLU8uxA
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Old 05-18-2020, 06:59 AM   #23
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Getting low latency is very dependent on your system & the quality of your sound interface. I've always tried to use or build a system with the best cpu I can afford. Also although it isn't as necessary to use a specialised kernel & incorporate a lot of custom file system edits as it once was, it is great that we still have that possibility for customisation. Another thing that is a great help in linux is that there are so many desktop environments & window managers to choose from, this can really help especially with ram usage. I do like Gnome but it's a serious memory hog, & that's one of the reasons I use a WM like i3wm or awesomewm, that & the fact that a tiling wm is just superior . Xfce4 is also a great choice if you prefer a more traditional DE.

With my current system & interface (in my sig) plus the standard 5.6 kernel I can run a project with between 15 & 20 instances of kontakt & a mix of 30 to 40 or so window vsts (via linvst) & linux fx vsts at 256 samples under jack or alsa. If I'm tracking guitar I prefer 64 samples but can easily get by at 128.
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Old 05-18-2020, 11:50 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobbe View Post
I found a template/workflow on Youtube that I copied. Works ok for me. It's on Cubase but you can do the same in Reaper.

https://youtu.be/YrRrqLU8uxA

Thanks, I will have a look.
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Old 05-18-2020, 08:04 PM   #25
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Hi, scroll down below the reply window to the 'Additional Options'
area, and the 2nd panel there is 'Attach Files'.

Click the 'Manage Attachements' button,
and a little browser gui will open, with 5 slots for
attachments from your computer, and an area to paste a url.

Scroll down that gui to see the full list of supported file types.
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