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View Poll Results: Interested?
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Yes
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61 |
80.26% |
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No
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15 |
19.74% |
08-04-2016, 01:34 PM
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#81
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: near Memphis, TN
Posts: 531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk1701
I voted yes. I'm concerned that I wouldn't be able to replace my Britson, which I use as a gain staging plugin. I don't have any issues with EQ and comp, but gain staging would be a bigger challenge.
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Manually setting levels isn't too bad. However, I use Britson too, so I feel your pain.
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08-05-2016, 07:54 AM
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#82
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Ontario
Posts: 1,676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpanderson80
Manually setting levels isn't too bad. However, I use Britson too, so I feel your pain.
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I like the balance between the trim of the Britson and the channel fader output. I think there's a Reaplug or JS trim plugin that may work the same way, but I'd have to figure out where 0vu would be on that plugin.
__________________
"I've never trusted Klingons and I never will. I can never forgive them for the death of my boy."
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08-05-2016, 07:58 AM
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#83
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk1701
I voted yes. I'm concerned that I wouldn't be able to replace my Britson, which I use as a gain staging plugin. I don't have any issues with EQ and comp, but gain staging would be a bigger challenge.
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I just pull the gain handle on the audio region. Instant pre-insert gain with visual feedback!
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08-05-2016, 08:13 AM
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#84
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: near Memphis, TN
Posts: 531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk1701
I like the balance between the trim of the Britson and the channel fader output. I think there's a Reaplug or JS trim plugin that may work the same way, but I'd have to figure out where 0vu would be on that plugin.
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Plus I'm assuming that you don't mind the Britson saturation either. *grin*
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08-07-2016, 12:30 PM
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#85
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,966
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Hey guys go to this thread ( http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=180012) and help me organize the contest 
If you find a nice song let me know!
Another thing... What genre do you prefer working on?
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08-08-2016, 10:32 AM
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#86
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Silver City, NM
Posts: 526
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To re-raise a point : I'm not sure of the value of restricting the choice of plug-ins...
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08-08-2016, 10:49 AM
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#87
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod
In all honesty I hope the song that is picked has some good sounding tracks and is not all distorted guitar.  |
Or all lo-fi 'mastered for portable devices' garbage like found on some of those websites. Some of that comes from that Rock Band game thingy with the fake guitar that you push the buttons on along with the game. They got separated stems from the mix sessions... which were then heavily degraded for the lo-fi world that that gaming stuff lives in. Said stems might also be post processing stems as opposed to raw track stems (ie. mixing work already part of the recording that you would have no way to undo for a clean start).
So to avoid most replies being:
"These tracks sound like post stems. Sorry."
"These were converted to mp3. Anyone got the originals? No? Well, never mind then. Can't work with this."
"This is lo-fi crap. This needs to be re-recorded first."
Limit submissions to original songs recorded personally by forum members. No exceptions. Absolutely no covers!
The 'impartial' judge? The one who recorded the song of course. 
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08-08-2016, 11:06 AM
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#88
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgraph
To re-raise a point : I'm not sure of the value of restricting the choice of plug-ins...
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Sorry but this is the only part that doesn't have to be further discussed
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08-08-2016, 11:08 AM
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#89
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr
Or all lo-fi 'mastered for portable devices' garbage like found on some of those websites. Some of that comes from that Rock Band game thingy with the fake guitar that you push the buttons on along with the game. They got separated stems from the mix sessions... which were then heavily degraded for the lo-fi world that that gaming stuff lives in. Said stems might also be post processing stems as opposed to raw track stems (ie. mixing work already part of the recording that you would have no way to undo for a clean start).
So to avoid most replies being:
"These tracks sound like post stems. Sorry."
"These were converted to mp3. Anyone got the originals? No? Well, never mind then. Can't work with this."
"This is lo-fi crap. This needs to be re-recorded first."
Limit submissions to original songs recorded personally by forum members. No exceptions. Absolutely no covers!
The 'impartial' judge? The one who recorded the song of course. |
Only original songs recorded personally by forum members? I don't know. Isn't it easier to use well recorded material on the sites we already mentioned?
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08-08-2016, 11:26 AM
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#90
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKeehl
Only original songs recorded personally by forum members? I don't know. Isn't it easier to use well recorded material on the sites we already mentioned?
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Just wondering if I have something lying around, warts and all. Might look if I get a chance but no promises.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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08-08-2016, 11:29 AM
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#91
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKeehl
Only original songs recorded personally by forum members? I don't know. Isn't it easier to use well recorded material on the sites we already mentioned?
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As opposed to well recorded material by forum members?
I guess I think not!
The big cons I see:
- Most of the stuff on those sites has been stepped on pretty hard. To the point of it being literally impossible to recreate the original mix no matter what you had to use. So it turns into this exercise of playing with restrictions beyond the stated contest restriction.
- Songs that have already been mixed and are in people's consciousness are going to bias things.
Starting with something original... All you can do is react and create. Also, recording shortcomings (should that be the case) can turn into someone elses technique. You never know...
Just a though.
Carry on remixing the Rock Band stems if that's what everyone wants to do.
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08-08-2016, 11:51 AM
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#92
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr
As opposed to well recorded material by forum members?
I guess I think not!
The big cons I see:
- Most of the stuff on those sites has been stepped on pretty hard. To the point of it being literally impossible to recreate the original mix no matter what you had to use. So it turns into this exercise of playing with restrictions beyond the stated contest restriction.
- Songs that have already been mixed and are in people's consciousness are going to bias things.
Starting with something original... All you can do is react and create. Also, recording shortcomings (should that be the case) can turn into someone elses technique. You never know...
Just a though.
Carry on remixing the Rock Band stems if that's what everyone wants to do. |
The Cambridge Mixing Secrets site has full un-multed multitracks without processing. Some of the recordings are a bit rough!
Still, an as-yet-unheard forum user's tracks would be cooler, though I'm too busy with work to participate on this one, so I'll leave it to those who are
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08-09-2016, 07:01 AM
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#93
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Ontario
Posts: 1,676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders
I just pull the gain handle on the audio region. Instant pre-insert gain with visual feedback!
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"Gain handle" "audio region"? Splain how.
__________________
"I've never trusted Klingons and I never will. I can never forgive them for the death of my boy."
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08-09-2016, 07:04 AM
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#94
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Ontario
Posts: 1,676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpanderson80
Plus I'm assuming that you don't mind the Britson saturation either. *grin*
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It certainly does sound nice. It's subtle, but when you start racking up the channel and buss numbers, a nice haze settles in. Couple that with V-Comp on the master buss and you've only got your own creativity holding you back from a 70s rock record.
__________________
"I've never trusted Klingons and I never will. I can never forgive them for the death of my boy."
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08-09-2016, 07:04 AM
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#95
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk1701
"Gain handle" "audio region"? Splain how.
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Hover your mouse over the top edge of an audio item, then drag down to attenuate it. The waveform changes to reflect the gain change as you drag.
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08-09-2016, 07:04 AM
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#96
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk1701
"Gain handle" "audio region"? Splain how.
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I assume he means the volume adjustment handle accessible at the top of audio items: drag it down to lower the volume; you can also hold down shift and drag up to enable >0 adjustments.
edit: leaving to include >0 note
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08-09-2016, 07:07 AM
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#97
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clepsydrae
I assume he means the volume adjustment handle accessible at the top of audio items: drag it down to lower the volume; you can also hold down shift and drag up to enable >0 adjustments.
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Hey, I never knew you could add gain! Probably because that is never something I've needed.
My quick n' dirty gain staging routine when I'm mixing someone else's stuff and the 2-bus is being hit too hard is to select all and pull the gain of all regions down till my master is hitting around -10dB peak.
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08-09-2016, 08:07 AM
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#98
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders
Hey, I never knew you could add gain! Probably because that is never something I've needed.
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On items? There's an option to make that a knob on the item which is how I use it and I consider it my starting point for any tracks that need level changes at the source level.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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08-09-2016, 08:12 AM
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#99
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Silver City, NM
Posts: 526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKeehl
Sorry but this is the only part that doesn't have to be further discussed |
change my vote to not interested please
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08-09-2016, 08:18 AM
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#100
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
On items? There's an option to make that a knob on the item which is how I use it and I consider it my starting point for any tracks that need level changes at the source level.
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For realz?!? 
Where do I find that option?
Found it under media preferences. That's very cool, can't believe I didn't spot it before!
Last edited by Judders; 08-09-2016 at 07:09 PM.
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08-09-2016, 08:30 AM
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#101
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders
The Cambridge Mixing Secrets site has full un-multed multitracks without processing. Some of the recordings are a bit rough!
Still, an as-yet-unheard forum user's tracks would be cooler, though I'm too busy with work to participate on this one, so I'll leave it to those who are |
Sounds like I'm a little off base with that comment then. I was aware that actual raw tracks with no format reductions were available to media schools. I didn't think any of that was public. I suppose it's as public on the internets as anything else that's not supposed to be public (if it's not supposed to be public) right?
Anyway, my thought was to turn this into a sneaky way to get free mix work (or at least ideas) for forum members while also avoiding bias with stuff that's already been mixed and released.
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08-09-2016, 08:38 AM
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#102
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Silver City, NM
Posts: 526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr
Sounds like I'm a little off base with that comment then. I was aware that actual raw tracks with no format reductions were available to media schools. I didn't think any of that was public. I suppose it's as public on the internets as anything else that's not supposed to be public (if it's not supposed to be public) right?
Anyway, my thought was to turn this into a sneaky way to get free mix work (or at least ideas) for forum members while also avoiding bias with stuff that's already been mixed and released.
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The Cambridge tracks are available with the consent of the bands and are not perfect recordings, but nice to use for mix practice when you don't have other material. The Telefunken site has multi-tracks available they use to highlight their mics.
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08-09-2016, 04:05 PM
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#103
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Oz - Blue Mountains NSW, formerly Geelong
Posts: 944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgraph
To re-raise a point : I'm not sure of the value of restricting the choice of plug-ins...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKeehl
Sorry but this is the only part that doesn't have to be further discussed |
If we don't restrict the choice of plugins then you (and others) will inevitably use a few plugins that I (and again others) don't have access to. This makes your submission, all your good work, totally useless to me. How can I learn from it if I can't get my hands on it? Just listening is nowhere near good enough. Of course, I'm assuming we'll all post our project files.
OTOH, I did suggest somewhere above that free and current plugins should be allowed because I only need to download to have access to them.
I also mentioned above that this should be primarily a learning experience, not a one-upmanship contest. (Maybe less strongly )
(My thinking is definitely coloured by 35 years experience teaching Electrical/Electronics/Radio/Digital Engineering, where a consistent learning experience is usually very valuable in projects such as this.)
__________________
It's "its" except when it's "it is".
alanofoz, aka Alan of Australia
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08-09-2016, 04:11 PM
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#104
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,052
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Even free plugins could cause problems if they are only compatible with PC for Mac users.
I think the ability for everybody to open the .RPP and find out for themselves what every plugin is doing is where the learning will happen.
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08-09-2016, 04:23 PM
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#105
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,220
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Plus it's a mixing contest. That means I want to use every single bit of my skill to pull off a winning mix (friendly competition or not... I'm not here to waste my time). My workflow revolves around a set of standard plugins I have become very used to and invested my time into learning to use efficiently. Yes, I can use ReaEQ and ReaXComp but I dislike them both in favour of other plugins and the whole time I'd be thinking 'I could have done this already in plugin x'.
Secondly, if you need to review a mix by opening project files, then you are biasing your review process with visuals, cogency, and natural bias towards your preferred method of working. A final mix is all you need to make a clear judgement.
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08-09-2016, 04:28 PM
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#106
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergler
Plus it's a mixing contest. That means I want to use every single bit of my skill to pull off a winning mix (friendly competition or not... I'm not here to waste my time). My workflow revolves around a set of standard plugins I have become very used to and invested my time into learning to use efficiently. Yes, I can use ReaEQ and ReaXComp but I dislike them both in favour of other plugins and the whole time I'd be thinking 'I could have done this already in plugin x'.
Secondly, if you need to review a mix by opening project files, then you are biasing your review process with visuals, cogency, and natural bias towards your preferred method of working. A final mix is all you need to make a clear judgement.
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I was thinking this is more of a learning/sharing experience? It's not like you're going to win anything.
Hear the mixes, vote, then you get to download any of the .RPP files you want to find out how the mix was done. That was my impression.
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08-09-2016, 04:35 PM
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#107
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders
I was thinking this is more of a learning/sharing experience? It's not like you're going to win anything.
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Agreed.
Also, I'd personally feel pretty embarrassed if I couldn't do this particular job (mix contest) with built in tools. Personal opinion but I prefer it to be my skill that makes the man, not the tool, at least when it comes to something like this where there is no client to please or repair gymnastics needed. I also think it does a good job of separating wheat from chaff when it comes to 'mixing'. Of course I'm that way because I came from having nothing but that's something I consider good, not bad YMMV.
Maybe better to have a separate contest (just as valid) for the VST jockeys because I stand behind the idea that these are two different things. Who cares what one can do when everything they dreamed of is at their fingertips.
I'm sure that sounds mean but still my 2 cents. Believe me, I have some fave non-reaper tools so if it would be a bit of a small hardship for me too but that's part of the challenge.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
Last edited by karbomusic; 08-09-2016 at 06:08 PM.
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08-09-2016, 06:34 PM
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#108
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 19
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08-09-2016, 08:25 PM
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#109
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk1701
"Gain handle" "audio region"? Splain how.
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I'm not sure what they're talking about either concerning "Gain handle".
I just use the "Item Volume" knob in the upper left corner of each item. It's got a +24dB gain. The wave form also changes with that and it's pretty easy to set regardless how little you're zoomed in or how small the track. In fact item height has no influence on it at all.
With that control I never have a problem setting volumes for mixing.
Edit: Aah, I see Karbo also mentioned it. 
Last edited by Tod; 08-09-2016 at 08:32 PM.
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08-10-2016, 02:28 AM
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#110
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod
I'm not sure what they're talking about either concerning "Gain handle".
I just use the "Item Volume" knob in the upper left corner of each item. It's got a +24dB gain. The wave form also changes with that and it's pretty easy to set regardless how little you're zoomed in or how small the track. In fact item height has no influence on it at all.
With that control I never have a problem setting volumes for mixing.
Edit: Aah, I see Karbo also mentioned it. |
It's Pro Tools terminology, I think. Refers to pulling the line down from the top of the audio item, known as "clip gain" in PT. I've never even used PT, but whenever people talk about it, or request similar behaviour from their DAW, that is the terminology they tend to use.
We're all on the same page as to its use though: input trim!
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08-10-2016, 03:19 AM
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#111
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgraph
change my vote to not interested please
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Simply don't participate then. The poll was purely to see if there was someone interested and it doesn't force you to submit your entry.
Again... the purpose of this contest/challenge is to share the rpp files.
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08-10-2016, 03:21 AM
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#112
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razz
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Thanks, I'll update the form ( http://bit.ly/2aopipE) as soon as possible!
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08-10-2016, 04:25 AM
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#113
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanofoz
If we don't restrict the choice of plugins then you (and others) will inevitably use a few plugins that I (and again others) don't have access to. This makes your submission, all your good work, totally useless to me. How can I learn from it if I can't get my hands on it? Just listening is nowhere near good enough. Of course, I'm assuming we'll all post our project files.
OTOH, I did suggest somewhere above that free and current plugins should be allowed because I only need to download to have access to them.
I also mentioned above that this should be primarily a learning experience, not a one-upmanship contest. (Maybe less strongly ) |
You got it!!!!
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08-10-2016, 06:27 PM
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#114
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Oz - Blue Mountains NSW, formerly Geelong
Posts: 944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders
Even free plugins could cause problems if they are only compatible with PC for Mac users.
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Fair point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders
I think the ability for everybody to open the .RPP and find out for themselves what every plugin is doing is where the learning will happen.
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Absolutely - as long as we all have access to each plugin used
__________________
It's "its" except when it's "it is".
alanofoz, aka Alan of Australia
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08-11-2016, 09:49 AM
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#115
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Silver City, NM
Posts: 526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanofoz
If we don't restrict the choice of plugins then you (and others) will inevitably use a few plugins that I (and again others) don't have access to. This makes your submission, all your good work, totally useless to me. How can I learn from it if I can't get my hands on it? Just listening is nowhere near good enough. Of course, I'm assuming we'll all post our project files.
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I'm not sure what it's about if it's not the listening... No matter. Have fun with it.
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08-11-2016, 10:35 AM
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#116
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgraph
I'm not sure what it's about if it's not the listening...
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To be fair we can sort of already do that with every other mix on the planet.
I think the point was the learning and sharing of exactly what was done and being able to download each other's projects with high certainty of it opening as-is so we can review just what the other person did. Though I think there is great value (for different reasons) to have and use third-party VSTs (I have a small fortune invested in them myself) I don't tend to conflate that usefulness with the ability to do a quality mix using basic tools that have existed for decades.
I however don't see a problem with a separate contest (as previously mentioned) where people show off the totality of their skills across whatever they can get their hands on.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
Last edited by karbomusic; 08-11-2016 at 10:40 AM.
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08-11-2016, 10:58 AM
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#117
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Ontario
Posts: 1,676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders
It's Pro Tools terminology, I think. Refers to pulling the line down from the top of the audio item, known as "clip gain" in PT. I've never even used PT, but whenever people talk about it, or request similar behaviour from their DAW, that is the terminology they tend to use.
We're all on the same page as to its use though: input trim! |
I did know how to do this, but the jargon tripped me up.
__________________
"I've never trusted Klingons and I never will. I can never forgive them for the death of my boy."
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08-11-2016, 10:59 AM
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#118
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk1701
I did know how to do this, but the jargon tripped me up.
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There is an option to just make that a knob on the item instead of dealing with that line for anyone it may interest.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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08-11-2016, 11:45 AM
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#119
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
There is an option to just make that a knob on the item instead of dealing with that line for anyone it may interest.
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Yup, I now have that preference checked as a result of this thread
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08-11-2016, 12:09 PM
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#120
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders
Yup, I now have that preference checked as a result of this thread |
So it's this thread I said that.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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