Old 09-11-2017, 01:56 AM   #1
wbgs_radio
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Default Dolby Atmos?

I am wondering can I use Dolby Atmos, With reaper and if so how?
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Old 11-09-2020, 08:59 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by wbgs_radio View Post
I am wondering can I use Dolby Atmos, With reaper and if so how?
Hi!

I just made a quick video showing how to setup the Dolby Production Suite to use it with Reaper, it works very well.

However, there's a slight problem that I would like to overcome which is that Reaper does not seem able to handle more than 64 audio channels I/O while the Atmos renderer can use up to 130 channels.

This is not too much of a problem for music use, but I discovered that the preferred way to sync the Atmos Renderer with Reaper is to use LTC rather than MTC as I show in the video. The reason being that LTC is sample accurate when MTC is only frame accurate. But, the Atmos Renderer seems to expect LTC on channel 129 (channels 1-128 being used for audio content), so Reaper cannot feed it :-(

My video is at : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v5C7HIDMuY

Regards,
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Old 11-09-2020, 02:19 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by matnoir View Post
Hi!

I just made a quick video showing how to setup the Dolby Production Suite to use it with Reaper, it works very well.

However, there's a slight problem that I would like to overcome which is that Reaper does not seem able to handle more than 64 audio channels I/O while the Atmos renderer can use up to 130 channels.

This is not too much of a problem for music use, but I discovered that the preferred way to sync the Atmos Renderer with Reaper is to use LTC rather than MTC as I show in the video. The reason being that LTC is sample accurate when MTC is only frame accurate. But, the Atmos Renderer seems to expect LTC on channel 129 (channels 1-128 being used for audio content), so Reaper cannot feed it :-(

My video is at : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v5C7HIDMuY

Regards,
p@T
Thanks for putting this all together matnoir. The work is appreciated by those of us wanting to keep up with these changes. The netflix opensource material is a particularly useful resource I was not aware of. It's a shame the production suite is Mac only which precludes me from testing it.

This may be a bit off topic but you might have an answer. How do ADM and Atmos deliverables intersect (if at all)? Does Atmos deliver as an ADM as an option? I notice that a number of the above mentioned Netflix resources have ADM BWF deliverables and have been watching that toolkit develop for a while.

Thanks again for posting.
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Old 11-14-2020, 03:22 AM   #4
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Thanks for putting this all together matnoir. The work is appreciated by those of us wanting to keep up with these changes. The netflix opensource material is a particularly useful resource I was not aware of. It's a shame the production suite is Mac only which precludes me from testing it.

This may be a bit off topic but you might have an answer. How do ADM and Atmos deliverables intersect (if at all)? Does Atmos deliver as an ADM as an option? I notice that a number of the above mentioned Netflix resources have ADM BWF deliverables and have been watching that toolkit develop for a while.

Thanks again for posting.
The Windows version will eventually be available. The high end version of the app, the Dolby Mastering Suite, runs fine on windows. They actually face problems for developing the ASIO version of the virtual device needed to link a DAW to the Dolby renderer.

When you record your final mix inside the renderer, it saves all information (audio + object metadata) in a .atmos file along with some xml files.

From then on, the renderer will allow you to export to any format, including ADM. For instance, if you publish music through Avid Play, they will allow the upload for ADM for Tidal and Amazon Music which are the two platforms able to stream Atmos encoded files at present time.

Have a nice week-end,
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Old 11-25-2020, 02:27 AM   #5
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The Windows version will eventually be available. The high end version of the app, the Dolby Mastering Suite, runs fine on windows. They actually face problems for developing the ASIO version of the virtual device needed to link a DAW to the Dolby renderer.

When you record your final mix inside the renderer, it saves all information (audio + object metadata) in a .atmos file along with some xml files.

From then on, the renderer will allow you to export to any format, including ADM. For instance, if you publish music through Avid Play, they will allow the upload for ADM for Tidal and Amazon Music which are the two platforms able to stream Atmos encoded files at present time.

Have a nice week-end,
p@T
Interesting to hear. There's a topic on the Dolby forums where a Dolby rep stated that there were currently no plans for a Windows port (albeit over a year ago) https://developerkb.dolby.com/suppor...cs/16000023816

And now that Nuendo 11 is on the way with fully integrated Atmos support on macOS *and* Windows (https://youtu.be/V8RYOBVsfSQ?t=885) I'm kinda suspecting that this might be Dolby's way forward. Integrating the Atmos renderer into third party DAWs gives them much more control and less things to worry about. But this also would mean, that Reaper users on Windows might never see any kind of Atmos support, because integrating Atmos like this involves very very large sums of money -.-
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Old 11-25-2020, 02:42 AM   #6
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Interesting to hear. There's a topic on the Dolby forums where a Dolby rep stated that there were currently no plans for a Windows port (albeit over a year ago) https://developerkb.dolby.com/suppor...cs/16000023816

And now that Nuendo 11 is on the way with fully integrated Atmos support on macOS *and* Windows (https://youtu.be/V8RYOBVsfSQ?t=885) I'm kinda suspecting that this might be Dolby's way forward. Integrating the Atmos renderer into third party DAWs gives them much more control and less things to worry about. But this also would mean, that Reaper users on Windows might never see any kind of Atmos support, because integrating Atmos like this involves very very large sums of money -.-
From what I understood (but I'm no Windows user, so please take this with a grain of salt), the Atmos renderer already exists for windows in the package they call the Mastering Suite, which is the high-end solution (for home entertainment, solution for movie production and theaters is different).

You can download it here : https://developer.dolby.com/tools-me...tes/downloads/

But, the Mastering Suite needs to run on a dedicated machine (Mac/Win) that receives and outputs audio via a Dante card.

The Mac only version is the lower priced Production Suite that allows the rendering app to run on the same computer than the daw, connecting the two via a virtual device. And creating such a virtual device was quite easy on the Mac using CoreAudio, but seems to be a challenge on Win with ASIO.

The "supported daws" such as PT, Nuendo and Pyramix only have the advantage of integrating a 3D Panner able to provide the Dolby Renderer with proper metadata for moving objects around. In other daws, such as Reaper, you have to use the (free) Dolby 3D panner VST plugin.

Avid have just announced that the current (or next) version of Pro Tools will allow you to render ADM BWF files straight from the daw without having to "record" them in the Dolby app.But since ADM is an open-source format, that's not so much of a challenge.

The BBC along with the EBU have also released the equivalent, developed specifically with and for Reaper : https://ear-production-suite.ebu.io/

Have a nice day,
p@T
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Old 11-10-2020, 09:48 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by matnoir View Post
However, there's a slight problem that I would like to overcome which is that Reaper does not seem able to handle more than 64 audio channels I/O while the Atmos renderer can use up to 130 channels.
Hi,
I don't know how you are linking Reaper with the Atmos Renderer, but the 64 channels limit is for the busses, tracks, plugins and audio files ... which represents a real problem for me too!
But you may get around it by using several hardware outputs in parallel. For example 1-64 for the first one and 65-128 for the second one, or just one for channel 130.
It works well with soundcards and ReaRoute too.
I guess that the limit might be 256 channels.
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Old 11-14-2020, 03:16 AM   #8
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Hi,
I don't know how you are linking Reaper with the Atmos Renderer, but the 64 channels limit is for the busses, tracks, plugins and audio files ... which represents a real problem for me too!
But you may get around it by using several hardware outputs in parallel. For example 1-64 for the first one and 65-128 for the second one, or just one for channel 130.
It works well with soundcards and ReaRoute too.
I guess that the limit might be 256 channels.
When using the Dolby Atmos Production Suite (i.e on the same computer than Reaper) the link is through a virtual audio device called Dolby Audio Bridge. At present time, this is the reason why this app is Mac only as there are difficulties for developing the same bridge with ASIO on Windows. They will overcome this eventually.

The high-end solution, know as the Mastering Suite, runs on a separate computer, Mac and Windows versions are available, and is on a Dante network.

For the rest, you are perfectly right, using the direct hardware outputs is the way to go. Who really needs using the master track in such a configuration anyway...

Have a nice week-end,
p@t
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Old 04-20-2023, 02:52 PM   #9
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There is a new VST3 plugin by a company called Fiedler that has created an Atmos renderer, panner, and player that works within Reaper. It's called Dolby Atmos Composer. It works within any DAW. I have no association with this company, but I have been demoing the product and from my early testing it seems to work quite well. Not cheap, currently selling at $199 but it gives Reaper users a way to directly integrate Atmos.


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I am wondering can I use Dolby Atmos, With reaper and if so how?
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Old 04-20-2023, 04:14 PM   #10
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There is a new VST3 plugin by a company called Fiedler that has created an Atmos renderer, panner, and player that works within Reaper. It's called Dolby Atmos Composer. It works within any DAW. I have no association with this company, but I have been demoing the product and from my early testing it seems to work quite well. Not cheap, currently selling at $199 but it gives Reaper users a way to directly integrate Atmos.
The full version is $199, but the Essential version (still quite capable for most of the regular tasks in my opinion) is only $99.

I have to add that since the panner (Beam plugin) is actually a router: it pans and sends the incoming audio to main master plugin pre-fader. So in that case, you can't mix the tracks with the Reaper tcp/mcp faders because the master plugin gets the audio pre-fader. Mixing has then to be done in the Beam plugin. And for what I understand, there's no (simple) way to make the Beam plugin post-fader.
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Old 04-20-2023, 04:33 PM   #11
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I have to add that since the panner (Beam plugin) is actually a router: it pans and sends the incoming audio to main master plugin pre-fader. So in that case, you can't mix the tracks with the Reaper tcp/mcp faders because the master plugin gets the audio pre-fader. Mixing has then to be done in the Beam plugin. And for what I understand, there's no (simple) way to make the Beam plugin post-fader.
I wish Reaper had a post-fader effect slot, but since it doesn't, and I've dealt with several different production processes that have required it, the best work-around I've come up with, is a post-fader send with parent send unchecked, and duplicate channels for the post-fader effects. Don't touch the pan or fader on those effects, and do your mixing on the original set. It works out OK to do your reverb sends from these post- tracks too. You do end up with twice as many tracks in the project though.

I didn't think about one thing in this case, with the sending to reverb from the Atmos Beam tracks. Beam stops the audio from being passed through it. It instead sends to Composer. So you'll have to make the reverb sends pre-FX.

Last edited by ScuzzyEye; 04-20-2023 at 05:59 PM. Reason: Added the additional thought about Beam blocking the audio.
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Old 04-21-2023, 04:16 AM   #12
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I'm just getting started with it, but I've been testing using a single Beam folder / buss track for the bed + height speakers, and putting all of my project bed tracks in that folder. I mix in 7.1.4 so I set the Beam buss to be 12 channels directly mapped to the 7.1.4 speakers, feeding the Composer directly from it. I then set all bed tracks to be 12 channels as well. I don't do any actual panning in the Beam bed buss once it is set up, it is all done in Reaper. I use ReaSurroundPan and the mixer to do all of the volume changes and panning, sending the 12 ReaSurroundPan channel outputs to the Beam bed. The Beam Bed track simply feeds the Composer. This has several advantages. I can use Reaper for panning, level changes, etc. Also, I can put a bed "master" EQ, compressor, limiter, and other FX on the Bed folder track before the Beam panner, effectively allowing to me compress, EQ, etc. the entire bed mix. (Without objects.)

Objects need to be handled separately, of course, using a Beam panner sending to the Composer, per standard Atmos . But using all bed tracks as a single Beam instance is very helpful IMO. I'm sure I will refine my techniques as time goes on.

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Originally Posted by sguyader View Post
The full version is $199, but the Essential version (still quite capable for most of the regular tasks in my opinion) is only $99.

I have to add that since the panner (Beam plugin) is actually a router: it pans and sends the incoming audio to main master plugin pre-fader. So in that case, you can't mix the tracks with the Reaper tcp/mcp faders because the master plugin gets the audio pre-fader. Mixing has then to be done in the Beam plugin. And for what I understand, there's no (simple) way to make the Beam plugin post-fader.
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Old 04-21-2023, 04:50 AM   #13
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I'm just getting started with it, but I've been testing using a single Beam folder / buss track for the bed + height speakers, and putting all of my project bed tracks in that folder. I mix in 7.1.4 so I set the Beam buss to be 12 channels directly mapped to the 7.1.4 speakers, feeding the Composer directly from it. I then set all bed tracks to be 12 channels as well. I don't do any actual panning in the Beam bed buss once it is set up, it is all done in Reaper. I use ReaSurroundPan and the mixer to do all of the volume changes and panning, sending the 12 ReaSurroundPan channel outputs to the Beam bed. The Beam Bed track simply feeds the Composer. This has several advantages. I can use Reaper for panning, level changes, etc. Also, I can put a bed "master" EQ, compressor, limiter, and other FX on the Bed folder track before the Beam panner, effectively allowing to me compress, EQ, etc. the entire bed mix. (Without objects.)

Objects need to be handled separately, of course, using a Beam panner sending to the Composer, per standard Atmos . But using all bed tracks as a single Beam instance is very helpful IMO. I'm sure I will refine my techniques as time goes on.
That's an interesting workflow!
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Old 09-11-2017, 11:56 AM   #14
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The Dolby tools with the RMU don't support Reaper yet.

At the moment your only software options are:
ProTools HD 12.8
Nuendo 7 or 8
DaVinci Resolve 14
Pyramix 11 (to a point)
Will reaper support this in the feature?
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Old 09-11-2017, 01:19 PM   #15
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Dolby apparently plans to support other systems such as Reaper, but I have no idea what the Timeline is.
Thanks a lot for the info.
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Old 09-11-2017, 03:11 PM   #16
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ATMOS is part of a Sontaran plot to poison the atmosphere.
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Old 09-11-2017, 04:45 PM   #17
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You can use ReaSurround to create a 7.1.2 mix. (7.1.4 being the recommended consumer delivery format) Automating movement in ReaSurround would be an excessive amount of work, as this isn't what it was designed for.

Yeah, wait for an official Atmos plugin. If it's anything like the one used in ProTools, it will be LOTS more intuitive.
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Old 09-12-2017, 12:05 PM   #18
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You can produce a Dolby Atmos mix from an Ambisonic mix if you have the right decoder. In fact, you can output pretty much anything from an Ambisonic mix without needing to do dedicated mixes.
Since switching over to third order Ambisonics for all my mixes, I've found that producing other formats such as mono, stereo, 5.1, 7.1, 256.24.2 (ok, I made that one up) tends to work better than if I started in those other formats to begin with. You're basically producing an Ambisonic mix which sets up a soundfield on the chosen speaker configuration. A soundfield on stereo speakers sounds better than a native panned mix for the same format.
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