CSI v3 - Now Includes Auto-FX Mapping -- Use this for Setup Help, Bug Reports, etc.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by mschnell

[*]Flip (Currently Fader -> Pan, I don't know if that really makes sense for me)

Then use the Flip button for something else!

Marker (The button works fine, but it does not "do" anything, as there is "Marke+Up" etc, but I don't have those buttons.) (see below)

Nudge (The button works fine, but it does not "do" anything, as there is "Nudge+Up" etc, but I don't have those buttons.) Moreover, I have no idea if the appropriate actions make any sense to me.

Maybe I can get a decent "Marker" functionality (e.g. set a marker when pressing a button (like with the Reaper stock implementation with the "Marker" button), and a "jump to next/previous Marker function e.g. by "Maker + Fast Forward / Backward") or similar.

In the supplied XTouch Zone files, Marker and Nudge are defined as modifiers. As you don't have Up and Down buttons (Marker+Up etc), these defintions aren't immediately useful to you. As you seem to be realising, why not change the definitions to use the transport buttons instead:

Marker+Play  Reaper 40157  // Insert marker at current or edit position
Marker+FastForward  Reaper 40173  // Go to next marker or project end
Marker+Rewind  Reaper 40172  // Go to previous marker or project start
Marker+Record  Reaper 40613  // Delete marker near cursor

The same approach can be used for Nudge. In reality, we are disussing the LayerA and LayerB buttons, which are used for Marker and Nudge when the Compact is set to MC mode (just wanted to be clear about that, it really is very confusing)

The buttons (i.e. Roraty Pushes) labelled (in the docs) "Track", "Send", PAN, "Plugin", "EQ", and "Instr" seem to do nothing at the moment. I suppose they are meant to "GoTo" other zones. But I did not yet get up to speed with the "GoTo" paradigm.

I might want to use some of them for other stuff e.g. to control modifiers etc.

You can use them for whatever you want

But generally I am lost on what workflow might make sense for Mixing. Here I can imaging using the faders for writing (volume) envelopes. But I am a bit lost regarding the envelope recording modes, yet. (And I am not really sure if this makes sense to me.)

You can use the faders to write automation, though you would need to use the mouse to set the automation mode as you don't have buttons for that.

Moreover, the Compact Motor faders are rather loud. Is there a possibility to momentarily switch off the feedback to the faders ?

Maybe try something like this in your Track.zon:

Flip+Fader| TrackVolume NoFeedback

Replacing: Flip+Fader| TrackPan

[mschnell]

Thanks a lot for the suggestions !
I do know, that I can use any button/rotary for anything I want. This exactly is the beauty of CSI. I also do know exactly the messages/buttons of the Compact in either mode. I only still am very confused which workflow might make sense when mixing hence seeking for inspiraton...

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Maybe try something like this in your Track.zon:

Flip+Fader| TrackVolume NoFeedback

That would be perfect.
unfortunately NoFeedback does not seem to work for faders. Even adding it to the normal fader line does not prevent feedback.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by mschnell

That would be perfect.
unfortunately NoFeedback does not seem to work for faders. Even adding it to the normal fader line does not prevent feedback.

That's a shame, worth a try though.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Marker+Play  Reaper 40157  // Insert marker at current or edit position
Marker+FastForward  Reaper 40173  // Go to next marker or project end
Marker+Rewind  Reaper 40172  // Go to previous marker or project start
Marker+Record  Reaper 40613  // Delete marker near cursor

This of course does work

[mschnell]

@Geoff: Any way to make NoFeedback work for track faders ?
It also does not do anything with track Rotaries.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

That's a shame, worth a try though.

!!
Maybe instead using the Rotary Push to toggle between Trim and Touch envelop mode might make sense ?

Ether for the track we push the Rotary of, or for all tracks at once.

looking for appropriate actions.... (how to pass the track number to the action : Reaper 41109 works on the selected track, not on the "current" (denoted as "|") )

this kind of works:

    RotaryPush|              Reaper 40878  // All -> Trim Read
    Marker+RotaryPush|       Reaper 40880  // All -> Touch

Maybe better use a non-track "button" in toggle mode: Is there a way to fire different actions on a toggle-button on and off state change ?

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by mschnell

@Geoff: Any way to make NoFeedback work for track faders ?
It also does not do anything with track Rotaries.

Just checked here, both Faders and Rotaries work fine with NoFeedback, meaning Feedback can be switched on and off using the NoFeedback directive.

Please post your Zone file contents, we'll sort it out.

[mschnell]

My simplistic setup:
-> www.bitvibe.de/Upload/CSI.ZIP
see track.zon. I understand the feedback to the faders should completely be blocked by the test.

Thanks a lot for taking a look!

OTOH doing a toggle button (with appropriate feedback) that fires different actions when activated and when deactivated also seems like a very useful thing (as well in a global way, as in a per-track way). Is that possible ?

BTW.: are there examples of per-track actions, only affecting the track the pushed "button" is currently associated to ? I suppose this needs a Reaper script associated to the action that finds the track number in the action context. (If I am not fooled, the CSI track-actions I saw up toil now are provided hard coded.)

Thanks again !

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by mschnell

My simplistic setup:
-> www.bitvibe.de/Upload/CSI.ZIP
see track.zon. I understand the feedback to the faders should completely be blocked by the test.

Please don't put quotes on the link, that caused it to fail.

Had a quick look, everything seems OK, anyone else see anything ?

[mschnell]

What quotes - where ?

I did not type nor see those.

AH, I see them by Edit.
No idea where they come from and if that is not normal.

In Forefox clicking the link just says save file ...
....
removed above



So you suggest with the setup I sent, the motor faders should not move at all ? ... But they do.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by mschnell

OTOH doing a toggle button (with appropriate feedback) that fires different actions when activated and when deactivated also seems like a very useful thing (as well in a global way, as in a per-track way). Is that possible ?

BTW.: are there examples of per-track actions, only affecting the track the pushed "button" is currently associated to ? I suppose this needs a Reaper script associated to the action that finds the track number in the action context. (If I am not fooled, the CSI track-actions I saw up toil now are provided hard coded.)

Anybody ?

Thanks !

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by mschnell

OTOH doing a toggle button (with appropriate feedback) that fires different actions when activated and when deactivated also seems like a very useful thing (as well in a global way, as in a per-track way). Is that possible ?

https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...wiki/Modifiers

BTW.: are there examples of per-track actions.

Examples of "per track" Zones:
SelectedTrackSend
SelectedTrackReceive
SelectedTrackFXMenu

Please read the Wiki.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...wiki/Modifiers

Sorry.I did not mean a pre-defined modifier here. But just a button that toggles something in Reaper by dedicated actions. Either two actions (or scripts) such as "on"/"off" or by a single action (or script) that read the state it is to set from the action context. (This is very common when firing an action by a Midi CC, and hence I thought is might be possible when firing it by CSI, as well.)

Do you suggest to (ab-)use a "standard" modifier (indeed there are enough of them) for this ? Can Modifiers be used "stand alone" making use of their state without reading it by some "second" widget ?

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Sorry.I did not mean a pre-defined modifier here. But just a button that toggles something in Reaper by dedicated actions.

That's just a button.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Examples of "per track" Zones:
SelectedTrackSend
SelectedTrackReceive
SelectedTrackFXMenu

Of course I do know the "standard" (hard coded) functions that work on dedicated tracks.

I was thinking of user defined functionality: e.g. having an action triggered with the track number in the action context, so that a script that is fired by that action can do something with exactly that track.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Of course I do know the "standard" (hard coded) functions that work on dedicated tracks.

I was thinking of user defined functionality: e.g. having an action triggered with the track number in the action context, so that a script that is fired by that action can do something with exactly that track.

I don't see how this has anything to do with CSI. Create a script that does this and trigger it from a CSI button.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

That's just a button.

AFAIU, a "Button" is on while pressed and "off" when released. (I even did not come across some using of this on/off state (unless when it is assigned to a modifier functionality), but only of having the button fire some action when pressed.

I did not yet see a "Button" Widget that toggles ("on" and lit when pressed, off when pressed again), other than when assigning a Modifier functionality to it, which obviously is meant to be used with some other widgets.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by mschnell

AFAIU, a "Button" is on while pressed and "off" wen released.

I did not yet see a "Button" Widget that toggles ("on" and lit when pressed, off when pressed again), other than when assigning a Modifier functionality to it, which obviously is meant to be used with some other widgets.

You're missing the point. It is the Action that toggles, not the button.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

I don't see how this has anything to do with CSI. Create a script that does this and trigger it from a CSI button.

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

You're missing the point. It is the Action that toggles, not the button.

Yep, that would allow for the general functionality I described, but I of course want to show the button current state with the button's LED.

Discussing this, maybe there is a way to have CSI show some "external state" such a script can set on a "feedback" to (e.g.) a button ? This of course would be the most flexible way....

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by mschnell

I of course want to show the button current state with the button's LED.

So create feedback in the script, or if all else fails, create a toggle cycle action.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

So create feedback in the script, or if all else fails, create a toggle cycle action.

How can I create a feedback in a Reaper script to control a Button LED ?
What am I missing ? Are there API calls that send something to CSI ?
MANY Thanks again for listening !

[mschnell]

BTW.:
Just to demonstrate why I am asking this weird stuff:

I am thinking about how to do:

Track: RotaryPush -> toggle between that Track Volume Envelope "trim read" and "touch".
Flip+[two "Global" Buttons I'll define for this] -> Volume Envelope "trim read" vs "touch" with all tracks that feature a Volume envelope.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by mschnell

BTW.:

Track: RotaryPush -> toggle between that Track Volume Envelope "trim read" and "touch".

Create a toggle cycle action that includes the two Reaper Actions for Trim read and Touch. Assign that toggle cycle action to a button in CSI.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Create a toggle cycle action that includes the two Reaper Actions for Trim read and Touch. Assign that toggle cycle action to a button in CSI.

I did understand what you suggested some messages above. (I am not new to scripting )

Am I wrong assuming that this does not work per track (the script would need to know the track number the rotary of which has been pushed) and that this does not show the state with the LED of the button <assuming not using the rotary push but some button>. (At least at the moment I can't see how ...)

Both are the goals I (vaguely) have in mind.

(ASAP, I'll try out if CSI provides the track number - or something at all - in the action context ... )

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Am I wrong assuming that this does not work per track and that this does not show the state with the LED of the button. (At least at the moment I can't see how ...)

For the selected track:

Automation: Set track automation mode to trim/read  40400
Automation: Set track automation mode to touch      40402

For all tracks:

Automation: Set all tracks automation mode to trim/read  40088
Automation: Set all tracks automation mode to touch      40087

If you create an SWS cycle action and set it to toggle, it will output feedback that will operate the LED.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

If you create an SWS cycle action and set it to toggle, it will output feedback that will operate the LED.

Very interesting indeed !! So CSI somehow "knows" the SWS extension in a hard coded way ??? I will try that ASAP. (Is there any documentation on that ? )

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

For the selected track:

Automation: Set track automation mode to trim/read  40400
Automation: Set track automation mode to touch      40402

Ah ! Now I seem to understand what creates this misunderstanding. (even though the description of the action does not state that it will affect all selected tracks)

I never though about selecting a track for this (might be an idea to think about, though, e.g. automatically selecting the track to be affected as a workaround).
I thought about just pushing the button in the column of a track as shown on the Surface device, and hence "being" in the track.zon file, where CSI knows (by "|") what track is meant by the user independent of track being selected i Reaper.

BTW.: the description of these actions does not state for which of potentially multiple envelopes that are active in that track the mode should be set). (Yet another issue to investigate...)

Edit: seemingly in Reaper the automation mode is the same with all envelopes of a track.

This brings up the question how this is practically handled with CSI: (many) Faders do send "touch" notifications to CSI, (most) Rotaries don't. Obviously faders are best used in touch mode. Is it viable to use rotaries in Touch mode at all ?

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

If you create an SWS cycle action and set it to toggle, it will output feedback that will operate the LED.

Originally Posted by mschnell

Very interesting indeed !! So CSI somehow "knows" the SWS extension in a hard coded way ??? I will try that ASAP. (Is there any documentation on that ? )

This really works !
AMAZING !!!!
Can anybody explain what exactly is going on under the hood ?

[mschnell]

Using the SWS toggle feature and your other suggestions, I have been able to activate / deactivate the Fader Movement with a single global button and it's LED does show the state.

Unfortunately this involves setting all tracks' envelope modes to "Touch" for activating. And with that the Rotaries can't decently be handled (as they don't send a "touch" notification"). (Not a big deal for me, but a cause for further investigation.)

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Using the SWS toggle feature and your other suggestions, I have been able to activate / deactivate the Fader Movement with a single global button and it's LED does show the state.

Unfortunately this involves setting all tracks' envelope modes to "Touch" for activating. And with that the Rotaries can't decently be handled (as they don't send a "touch" notification"). (Not a big deal for me, but a cause for further investigation.)

Why not set them all to Write or Latch?

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Why not set them all to Write or Latch?

The main (supposedly the only) envelopes that make sense to be written my the Control Surface Device are managed by the faders. And those do support Touch mode. AFAI see the most (supposedly the only) decent workflow with envelopes is using the touch mode. ( I suppose this is why in the XTouch setup I used as a template, "Flip" is used to allow for manipulating Pan by the faders even though it can be manipulated by the rotaries.)

And with Reaper you seemingly can't set different envelope modes in the same track, even with a much more complex setup than a global toggle.

Maybe using the rotary push for touch might make sense.... or simply not using the rotaries for writing envelopes at all.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Why not set them all to Write or Latch?

The main (supposedly the only) envelopes that make sense to be written my the Control Surface Device are managed by the faders. And those to support Touch mode. AFAI see the most (supposedly the only) decent hardware controller enabled workflow with envelopes is using the touch mode. ( I suppose this is why in the XTouch setup I used as a template, "Flip" is used to allow for manipulating Pan by the faders even though it can be manipulated by the rotaries.)

And with Reaper you seemingly can't set different envelope modes in the same track, even with a much more complex setup than a global toggle.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by mschnell

This really works !
AMAZING !!!!
Can anybody explain what exactly is going on under the hood ?

I suppose this is not tied to SWS (cycle Action), but CSI can read the "State" of any action it fires. When the action is associated with a Button it uses the "State" as a Feedback. The "State" (if similar to ExtState) is a text, hence supposedly the string "On" triggers the button's <on> feedback and "Off" triggers the button's <off> feedback.
GREAT !

Interesting to check if some kind of numerical value in the State might be used to drive the feedback to a rotary or fader...

I'll do some tests ASAP....

Edit:
there seemingly is "SetToggleComandState()" and friends ...
it uses an integer "state" ->

bool SetToggleCommandState(int section_id, int command_id, int state)

(seems to need "NamedCommandLookup()" to find the command_id value)
Edit: GetActionContext is more appropriate than NamedCommandLookup here.

[mschnell]

Yep.

It's not necessary to use a SWS Cycle action accessing actions or scripts to do the toggled setup changes.

I now did a single script:

      Automation_Set_all_tracks_automation_mode_to_trim_read  = 40088;
      Automation_Set_all_tracks_automation_mode_to_touch      = 40087;
      get_action_context(#filename, section_id, command_id, mode, resolution, val);
      on = GetToggleCommandStateEx(section_id, command_id);
      on = !on;
      SetToggleCommandState(section_id, command_id, on);
      on ? (      
        Main_OnCommand(Automation_Set_all_tracks_automation_mode_to_touch, 0);
       ) : (
        Main_OnCommand(Automation_Set_all_tracks_automation_mode_to_trim_read, 0);
      );

Same toggles the automation states as desired.

When assigned to a button in CSI, it is fired appropriately and the button LED does show the current state. (on = touch mode)

This of course right now is not better than the cycle action way, but with more complex tasks, a script might be necessary.

[TomInBrisbane]

I was so happy to learn about sticky modifiers and now understand the unexpected behavior I experienced in the past.

Is there a way to make my modifier keys stay illuminated in the sticky mode? I have read the Modifiers wiki page but didn't see any mention.

I'm using a QCon Pro X controller.

[mschnell]

I updated the code in the message above to an improved version (no need to manually provide the action ID, optimizing readability).

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by TomInBrisbane

I was so happy to learn about sticky modifiers and now understand the unexpected behavior I experienced in the past.

Is there a way to make my modifier keys stay illuminated in the sticky mode? I have read the Modifiers wiki page but didn't see any mention.

I'm using a QCon Pro X controller.

If your modifier buttons have lights and your .mst definitions are correct, the lights will work just fine when latched.

[mschnell]

Ranting on ....

If CSI does provide a means to fire script aware Reaper actions by track aware widgets, it theoretically could use two ways to have the script know what track is calling it: (1) provide the track number in the action context and (2) select the track momentarily and after returning from the script restoring the track selection pattern. Both do make sense...

[bitsound]

Hi!
I've been in a rabbit hole, transitioning to Reaper as my main DAW and now trying to integrate CSI in my workflow.
I have the (legacy) iCON QCON Pro. It has a Reaper profile, but I found that it's very limited in the messages that is able to send. No modifiers except shift work. The Function keys only send 1 message.
The Logic profile sends midi data from the modifiers, and introduce the double layer on the function keys (using control as a modifier).
Everything seems to be working great, EXCEPT.. the fader values. The travel of the faders isnt calibrated with Reaper values. The maximum value of the controller doesnt translate into the maximum value in the CSI messages. This makes impossible to control the full range of any assigned parameter. Is there a way to correct this in CSI?

Thank you all!

EDIT: FOUND SOLUTION!
Tried the Reason profile of the Qcon and everything aligned perfectly. I have access to the modifiers, the double layer on the functions keys, and the faders match the Reaper values!