Option to not apply default CC Shape in on/off lanes - particularly cc64 (Hold Pedal)

H000W · 09-07-2020, 08:11 PM

I'm a massive fan of the new feature in 6.13 where you can apply the default cc shape to recorded events. I use the mod wheel a lot for orchestral sample instruments, so setting the default cc curve shape to 'bezier' and having Reaper automatically apply that is a big time saver - and the bezier curve shape makes things sound noticeably better!

However...

When I choose to apply my default cc curve shape (bezier) to recorded data it applies that shape to the Hold Pedal (cc64). Since this is an on/off lane, using the bezier shape there causes unwanted behavior (i.e. notes will cut off well before they are supposed to). I then need to go in and manually and apply the square shape to the cc64 lane.

There is an option to choose whether to "Allow CC shape in bank and LSB lanes (cc0, 32-63)". If there were also an option to choose whether to "Allow CC shape in on/off lanes", that would be a great workflow improvement for me. It would mean I could automatically have nice bezier shapes applied to cc1, and have the hold pedal work as intended with a square shape on cc64.

I hope this (or a similar solution) is possible, thanks for your time

H000W · 09-13-2020, 09:19 PM

Just thinking aloud here, another option would be if I could choose my default midi shape via a key command (I've looked but it doesn't come up in the list of actions). Then I could easily set the default shape as square when I want to record some piano and need the foot pedal, and then set it to bezier when I want to record something that responds to the mod wheel instead and doesn't need the foot pedal.

Or maybe the most flexible option would be to choose the default cc shape per cc lane?

Edit: Just to update, you can choose default midi shape via a key command, it's in the actions list for the midi editor, not the main section actions list.

BryanChi · 10-09-2020, 11:39 AM

Thanks for submitting this request, it'd be very useful for me too.

My current solution is to set a key command that changes the selected cc shape to square, I press select all and run that action every time I finish recording a passage, it's a little annoying to have to do this every time.

explodingPSYCH · 02-28-2021, 02:42 PM

Resurrecting this feature request. I'm also having the same problem. BUMP!

explodingPSYCH · 04-25-2021, 04:40 PM

Still looking for a solution to this.

explodingPSYCH · 06-26-2022, 10:18 AM

Bump

same · 07-04-2022, 03:23 PM

Seconded, having the same problem here as well

- would love to see any possible solutions for this

EvilDragon · 07-05-2022, 12:21 AM

All CCs are the same, really. "On/Off" thing is pretty much just a General MIDI conundrum, it doesn't apply in all cases. And there are continuous sustain pedals out there, along with software that supports that properly (i.e. Pianoteq, and quite a few other virtual pianos).

It's pretty easy to select all nodes in CC64 lane then change the shape to Square. Have those CC shape actions on a toolbar so that you can change them quickly before you edit stuff. It's really not that difficult.

same · 07-05-2022, 03:12 AM

True, as you said, I've just been changing it to square afterwards, but it would honestly be more convenient if I didn't have to do that every single time I recorded in a piano part.

I know you mentioned that Pianoteq and some other libraries use CC64 continuously, but as none of the piano libraries I currently own use CC64 continuously, I was hoping there would be a toggle-able option somewhere that makes the cc64 lane always square-shaped, so I don't have to go in and change it myself every time.

It's not a problem or anything like that, but it would make my workflow a little bit smoother

explodingPSYCH · 07-17-2022, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by same

True, as you said, I've just been changing it to square afterwards, but it would honestly be more convenient if I didn't have to do that every single time I recorded in a piano part.

I know you mentioned that Pianoteq and some other libraries use CC64 continuously, but as none of the piano libraries I currently own use CC64 continuously, I was hoping there would be a toggle-able option somewhere that makes the cc64 lane always square-shaped, so I don't have to go in and change it myself every time.

It's not a problem or anything like that, but it would make my workflow a little bit smoother

Exactly this.

EvilDragon brought up the idea of continuous sustain pedals in another post on this topic, but I'm not convinced. It seems reasonable to call this a corner case. In the meantime everyone using this feature has to manually change CC lanes used for on/off messages after the fact.

Continuous pedal users still have to manually correct any CCs they want to use as on/off (square shaped) controls. A solution with user definable curves per CC would be great for everyone working at this depth. Something like the MIDI note name text files. Anyone who doesn't care wouldn't be affected and all the people using standard sustain/hold pedals would be able to use this feature more smoothly.

"It isn't that hard" seems to come up a lot on forums. I'm guessing this is because the commenter's workflow isn't taxed as much by the situation as the OP, but these small issues add up. Solutions to these issues save users from having to remember/perform additional manual tasks. This is important. Every extra click/task avoided is time/money and ease of use gained. It allows more attention to be put towards creative tasks.

H000W · 07-17-2022, 11:07 PM

I agree, it's not difficult but something I have to think about and fix by hand every single time I record a midi track that uses a pedal. It's one of those workflow blocks where those constant seconds of manual work really add up over time.

Having the curve set to bezier is by far the best setting to use for virtual instruments, where you want to be almost moving the mod wheel to get that natural dynamic phrasing. It can be similar with synths where you might want to be adjusting something constantly as well. So it really is a bit of a hassle to open up that midi file, select all the cc64 events and set them to the square shape every single time that I've also used the sustain pedal - or to make a new midi item, open it up and then set the default cc shape to square before I record piano track... and then set it back before I record some strings or brass or whatever.

For my current work-around I have placed shortcuts for the following actions in my midi editor toolbar:
- Set default cc shape to square
- Set default cc shape to bezier
- Set cc shape to square
- Set cc shape to bezier
Like so:

(The fourth and fifth, and eight and ninth icons from the left, and of course I've also set keyboard shortcuts)

Does anyone have any better work-arounds for now? I'm really hoping that this issue is addressed in a future Reaper update (Of course in a way that also allows for the Pianoteq and similar libraries that use continuous sustain pedals.)

mozart999uk · 07-20-2022, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by explodingPSYCH

Exactly this.

"It isn't that hard" seems to come up a lot on forums. I'm guessing this is because the commenter's workflow isn't taxed as much by the situation as the OP, but these small issues add up. Solutions to these issues save users from having to remember/perform additional manual tasks. This is important. Every extra click/task avoided is time/money and ease of use gained. It allows more attention to be put towards creative tasks.

Agreed! I find it quite condescending.....

H000W · 07-21-2022, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mozart999uk

Agreed! I find it quite condescending.....

I'm sure that wasn't the intention

I have to thank Mr. Evil Dragon because whenever I have to google something about Kontakt (among many other things) he's invariably already answered my question in a forum post somewhere!

H000W · 10-18-2023, 11:36 PM

I'm very excited to see that Reaper 7 has resolved this issue for us.

In the midi editor window go to options -> cc/velocity lane, and turn off "allow CC shape in sustain lane".

The sustain pedal will now be locked into the 'square' CC shape, allowing you to input with the mod wheel or a fader at the same time as you input with the sustain pedal - and you won't need to set one or the other to a different CC shape manually.

Honestly, this feels like Christmas to me - thanks Reaper devs!

explodingPSYCH · 10-19-2023, 09:27 AM

THEY FIXED IT! I LOVE THIS!

Gumphrey · 11-02-2023, 10:03 PM

I'm either doing something wrong, or this doesn't work as I expect. There is no combination of settings I can find that will clamp CC 64 to 0 and 127 when recording. Nor can I figure out how to clamp and remove duplicates after the fact. Is this different than the CC shape controls? And if so, is there a place I can set that up?