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08-12-2015, 08:11 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New York
Posts: 387
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Reaper Installer Hangs Like Forever
I know it has been documented before, but I'd like to draw attention to it once again:
The 64bit installer takes about 10-15 minutes (yes!) to start working (after double-click) on windows 10. Had the same behavior on windows 7. Pretty weird and annoying.
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08-12-2015, 08:12 AM
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#2
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,676
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Windows Defender is to blame.
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
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08-12-2015, 08:18 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 492
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Yep- Windows Defender to the rescue! NOT.
I've been dealing with this one for some time, too. Used to be if I rebooted just prior to installation (and not start Reaper) it would run pretty quick. Not anymore I fear.
It's ok. Just taking a deep breath and getting another cup of coffee while I wait for the installer.......breathe.......breathe.........
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08-12-2015, 08:19 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 8,062
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Right click on the installer file and "Run as administrator", works here to circumvent the long wait...
__________________
I am no longer part of the REAPER community. Please don't contact me with any REAPER-related issues.
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08-12-2015, 08:21 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New York
Posts: 387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenakios
Right click on the installer file and "Run as administrator", works here to circumvent the long wait...
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Thanks. Tried it - it does not work for me, unfortunately.
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08-12-2015, 08:22 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New York
Posts: 387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro
Windows Defender is to blame.
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I'm not so sure, to be honest. No other installer hangs...
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08-12-2015, 08:25 AM
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#7
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvin
I'm not so sure, to be honest. No other installer hangs...
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Trust me, it's Windows Defender. Disable it and try it for yourself.
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
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08-12-2015, 08:28 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 83
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I had that problem also.
I rebooted and it worked as usual except for the VT3 search.
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08-12-2015, 08:31 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New York
Posts: 387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro
Trust me, it's Windows Defender. Disable it and try it for yourself.
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I have not doubt it has to do with Windows Defender. That does not mean it's windows defender's fault, though.
We know that their interaction causes the problem, but we don't know who is at fault here. Very weird because no other installers hang like that. It could be faulty coding in Reaper or a bug (or something else) in Windows Defender.
In any case, I'd like to see the Reaper developers working on this issue. The good news is, once installed, Reaper is nearly flawless, as always. Best value for a DAW.
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08-12-2015, 08:31 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 8,696
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Run as admin worked for me too.
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08-12-2015, 08:33 AM
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#11
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvin
I have not doubt it has to do with Windows Defender. That does not mean it's windows defender's fault, though.
We know that their interaction causes the problem, but we don't know who is at fault here. Very weird because no other installers hang like that. It could be faulty coding in Reaper or a bug (or something else) in Windows Defender.
In any case, I'd like to see the Reaper developers working on this issue. The good news is, once installed, Reaper is nearly flawless, as always. Best value for a DAW.
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Usually within a short time Windows Defender gets to recognize our installers and then will operate more quickly.
I've investigated this a bit, can't come up with much, other than perhaps us detuning the compression used by our installers (increasing their size by 30-40%) would help. I suppose we could do this.
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08-12-2015, 08:34 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 83
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Admin did not work for me. Only reboot.
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08-12-2015, 08:35 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Make sure it is not an internet zone flag causing the block. Right-Click > properties > unblock if the unblock button is there. FYI that is a check that happens at the time of download and it sets the flag accordingly.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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08-12-2015, 08:35 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New York
Posts: 387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Usually within a short time Windows Defender gets to recognize our installers and then will operate more quickly.
I've investigated this a bit, can't come up with much, other than perhaps us detuning the compression used by our installers (increasing their size by 30-40%) would help. I suppose we could do this.
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Sounds like a good plan. Thanks!
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08-27-2015, 04:38 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New York
Posts: 387
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Version 5.01 misses the biggest bug....
The Windows installer takes about 10-15 minutes to start (sometimes more). The general assumption is that very heavy compression of the executable is responsible for the bizarre behavior.
Well, it's time for Cockos to stop pretending Reaper is a 10-12 mb program and do things right. Make it 100 or whatever size allows for a normal install routine. It's a total pain in the ass to deal with this s**t every time a new version or update comes out.
It's bad enough we have to deal with the ugliest default interface in the business....
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08-27-2015, 04:59 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 83
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That's weird and has most certainly little to do with the compression of the executable.
First (theoretical answer): you cannot decide to compress beyond a certain point, and hide as much as you want in 10 MB.
Second (experimental answer): I downloaded and installed it this morning before going to work while drinking my coffee. It took me less than 1 minute.
Seems that the problem is on your side.
franzwam
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08-27-2015, 05:02 AM
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#17
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Scribe
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Van Diemen's Land
Posts: 12,167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvin
The Windows installer takes about 10-15 minutes to start (sometimes more).
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That's horrible. Which version of Windows? I'm getting no probs with XP or 8 or 8.1.
If it's 10 that's just given me another reason to avoid it ....
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08-27-2015, 05:03 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 151
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sounds like a problem with the "msi"service or your userprofile. you can try this: log in to a other administrator account (if you dont have one, create one) and try it there - if the install works without problems with the other account your Windowsprofile is broken.
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08-27-2015, 05:09 AM
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#19
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,721
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To be clear, this issue affects some systems on all OSes from Windows 7 to Windows 10, with Windows Defender and/or Microsoft Security Essentials. A google search reveals that it also affects many decent-sized executable installers (though perhaps MSI installers are not affected).
We did a lot of experimentation during the 5.01 cycle with the installers to see if we could reduce this: improving the signing used (to use sha256 hashes and a newer signing tool), using bzip2 compression instead of LZMA, etc. We haven't been able to eliminate the problem. I will look at what it would take to use an MSI installer instead, however I am hesitant to do this, because the user experience for users who do not have this issue would certainly be degraded, and also I feel this is a bug that Microsoft really needs to address!
Workarounds:
1) If you can, open a command prompt and execute the installer from there. This will work 100% of the time, instantly.
2) Try right clicking on the installer, selecting properties, then choosing "Unblock" near the bottom of the properties page. Hit OK, then run the installer.
3) If you ran the installer and it hangs, download it again while you wait and run the new copy. It will run instantly.
There are others, too.
Quote:
That's weird and has most certainly little to do with the compression of the executable.
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After experimentation, it doesn't appear to have anything to do with the compression.
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08-27-2015, 05:10 AM
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#20
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvin
It's bad enough we have to deal with the ugliest default interface in the business....
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BTW, mixing this in with this thread is inappropriate.
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08-27-2015, 05:52 AM
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#21
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Workarounds:
1) If you can, open a command prompt and execute the installer from there. This will work 100% of the time, instantly.
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That's handy to know!
And a tip for Win 7 users, not sure about later versions, shift+right click on any folder brings up a menu and you will see "Open Command Window Here".
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08-27-2015, 05:58 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New York
Posts: 387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franzwam
That's weird and has most certainly little to do with the compression of the executable.
Seems that the problem is on your side.
franzwam
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Justin Frankler himself, Reaper's developer, is the one who spoused the theory. I'd imagine he is right.
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08-27-2015, 06:02 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New York
Posts: 387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
BTW, mixing this in with this thread is inappropriate.
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Fair enough - my apologies for that.
I was just pissed by having to deal with 15 minutes of wait on something that is clearly a problem with Repaer. Literally thousands of other software installers run without a hitch.
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08-27-2015, 06:03 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NWPA
Posts: 172
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He said "Frankler"!
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08-27-2015, 06:03 AM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New York
Posts: 387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
To be clear, this issue affects some systems on all OSes from Windows 7 to Windows 10, with Windows Defender and/or Microsoft Security Essentials. A google search reveals that it also affects many decent-sized executable installers (though perhaps MSI installers are not affected).
We did a lot of experimentation during the 5.01 cycle with the installers to see if we could reduce this: improving the signing used (to use sha256 hashes and a newer signing tool), using bzip2 compression instead of LZMA, etc. We haven't been able to eliminate the problem. I will look at what it would take to use an MSI installer instead, however I am hesitant to do this, because the user experience for users who do not have this issue would certainly be degraded, and also I feel this is a bug that Microsoft really needs to address!
Workarounds:
1) If you can, open a command prompt and execute the installer from there. This will work 100% of the time, instantly.
2) Try right clicking on the installer, selecting properties, then choosing "Unblock" near the bottom of the properties page. Hit OK, then run the installer.
3) If you ran the installer and it hangs, download it again while you wait and run the new copy. It will run instantly.
There are others, too.
After experimentation, it doesn't appear to have anything to do with the compression.
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Thank you for the suggestions! That said, I'd expect Reaper not to require all these workarounds.
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08-27-2015, 06:05 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 300
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What I do to overcome the long wait...
Right click on downloaded file and "run as administrator"
Opens and runs immediately.
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08-27-2015, 06:06 AM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Polandia
Posts: 3,578
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Had the same problem since migrating to Windows 7 and never associated it with security essentials. Pretty decent excuse to change the antivirus to something better, as Microsoft ones have pretty awful detection rates.
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08-27-2015, 06:09 AM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Argentina
Posts: 326
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For me works right click, "run as administrator".
__________________
Living la vida loca
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08-27-2015, 06:37 AM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: St George, UT _ USA
Posts: 2,881
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Never, EVER had this problem from Win 7, thru 8, 8.1 Pro, now to Win 10 Pro. Clearly others have had similar issues.
The tone of OP's post could be more of a genuine question first, and not attacking Reaper and its capable devs for individual system issues.
General troubleshooting and sharing of system configs will sort this and little doubt it will be resolved. I run three desktop systems, all different configs, and none have the problems OP describes.
BTW .... often use 'Run as administrator' for some things, but never had to for Reaper and very quick install or update.
Last edited by sostenuto; 08-27-2015 at 06:43 AM.
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08-27-2015, 06:40 AM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Spain
Posts: 7,239
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I would not change the installer. It is super quick and easy. I don't have any issues installing/upgrading in seconds.
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08-27-2015, 06:43 AM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronmac
What I do to overcome the long wait...
Right click on downloaded file and "run as administrator"
Opens and runs immediately.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pasajeromoronmoreno
For me works right click, "run as administrator".
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It will/should force admin by default just by clicking on it unless it is a portable install.
Otherwise, I'd really like the OP to right-click > properties and see if the unblock button is there. It would be great to confirm this and most helpful to the devs.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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08-27-2015, 06:45 AM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvin
That said, I'd expect Reaper not to require all these workarounds.
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It's a Microsoft problem, not Reaper. Some other installers (Inno) have issues on the same systems that have problems with NSIS, too.
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08-27-2015, 06:48 AM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Sure would be nice to know if the unblock button was visible in the file's properties, just sayin'... Might save you guys lots of grief and arguing.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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08-27-2015, 06:52 AM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 20
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I'd definitely say something is wrong on your computer. 5.01 installed for me as fast as I could click it. Reaper upgrades are always insanely bizarrely fast for me.
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08-27-2015, 06:57 AM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: St George, UT _ USA
Posts: 2,881
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Well ..... maybe a simplistic way to separate MS/in & Reaper, but not getting to the OP's problem. My three (3) Win desktops were all updated to Win 8 with (3) legitimate disks from Staples (USA) and all three have behaved differently in subtle ways. All updated to Win 10 Pro day of release.
Likely the issue is different mother boards and bios. Two are Asus (Intel i5), and one Intel (i7). all 8 GB, all SSD. The behaviors are subtle but evident.
Reaper must deal with these incredible hardware variations, plus so many OS choices .... for sure. Just need a bit more understanding from Users when their system has issues?
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08-27-2015, 07:23 AM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvin
Justin Frankler himself, Reaper's developer, is the one who spoused the theory. I'd imagine he is right.
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Don't worry I also think (and hope! ^^) he knows the deal 'a bit' better than both of us do, but I don't see where our answers are incompatible.
He just confirmed that - contrary to what you said - compression is certainly not the cause to your trouble.
Additionally, the problem is still on your side, since a lot of people (majority ?) do not face the problem.
__________________
franzwam
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08-27-2015, 07:35 AM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 8,696
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5.01 installed virtually instantly for me with Win 7 64bit.
Sadly Channel aftertouch (sometimes known as channel pressure) still does not work in this .01 update with VST3i (note: it does work with VST3i in Sonar Artist). I have reported this elsewhere on the forum.
At least POLY aftertouch is working.
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08-27-2015, 08:35 AM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
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I had MSE on Win7 laptop and had no any installer problem. With Win7 PC is the same situation.
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08-27-2015, 09:06 AM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeekat
Had the same problem since migrating to Windows 7 and never associated it with security essentials. Pretty decent excuse to change the antivirus to something better, as Microsoft ones have pretty awful detection rates.
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Indeed!
I also never had any problem updating. It is always very, very fast. All it takes is blinking with my eyes and it's done!
But what strikes me most of all is that Justin already explained to the OP, when he complained his update to v5 to last 10-15 minutes, that MS Defender was the cause of this problem. (see post 12 August 2015: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=164835
No I wonder, will we see a new post from OP when updating to v5.02? ;-)
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08-27-2015, 09:55 AM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Essex, England.
Posts: 561
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Irvin, has Microsoft paid Justin to fix Window OS bugs??
__________________
'Retired technician - not a musician' and registered Reaper user since July 2008
'Excellence is not a skill, It is an attitude' Ralph Marston quotes.
Music at http://soundcloud.com/fixerdave
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