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Old 12-21-2007, 06:36 AM   #1
dial99
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Default Poor dialup users - any hope?

Hi,

I just found out about ninjam and am blown away by its uber-coolness. I listened to a few jams from the office (fast internet connection) and it sounds like a blast. I'm on Linux BTW running the ncurses ninjam client.

However at home my connection is a 64kbps dialup connection with very poor upstream rates. When I try to connect I get kicked out after a minute or two.

I was wondering if there's any hope for low-bandwidth users. I can think of a couple of options:

1. A MIDI-only version (no idea about the needed bandwidth, but certainly less than ogg)
2. Listen-only access through server-side stream mixing plus a regular shoutcast/icecast streaming server, available in 24kbps (reducing client-side network bandwidth)
3. Don't kick out low bandwidth users, even with poor connectivity, through some sort of a "listen only" option

Any chance of any of the above happening?

Thanks. If I get desperate I may drag my gear to the office on the weekend
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Old 12-21-2007, 11:40 AM   #2
pljones
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Option 1 (MIDI) really doesn't work. You've no idea what your MIDI stream would do on someone else's system. (And I can think of some quite scary things that could happen...)

ninbot.com has option 2 covered. Both their servers have streaming live "radio" stations.

Option 3: have you tried turning off transmit?

Option 4: So long as they pay you for the overtime...
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...Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world.

Last edited by pljones; 12-21-2007 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 12-26-2007, 06:18 PM   #3
spuddle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dial99 View Post
Hi,

I just found out about ninjam and am blown away by its uber-coolness. I listened to a few jams from the office (fast internet connection) and it sounds like a blast. I'm on Linux BTW running the ncurses ninjam client.

However at home my connection is a 64kbps dialup connection with very poor upstream rates. When I try to connect I get kicked out after a minute or two.

I was wondering if there's any hope for low-bandwidth users. I can think of a couple of options:

1. A MIDI-only version (no idea about the needed bandwidth, but certainly less than ogg)
2. Listen-only access through server-side stream mixing plus a regular shoutcast/icecast streaming server, available in 24kbps (reducing client-side network bandwidth)
3. Don't kick out low bandwidth users, even with poor connectivity, through some sort of a "listen only" option

Any chance of any of the above happening?

Thanks. If I get desperate I may drag my gear to the office on the weekend
Ninjam is a bit hairy for those with poor connections. I don't think it's specifically booting people off because of it but rather Justins network code may be assuming that you've become disconnected?

Would be nice if it was more tolerant.

As for a MIDI only option, that'd be cool but likely for user satisfaction, Ninjam would have to be bundled with default synths / sample players so that everyone has access to the same sounds...
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Old 12-26-2007, 08:57 PM   #4
dial99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spuddle View Post
As for a MIDI only option, that'd be cool but likely for user satisfaction, Ninjam would have to be bundled with default synths / sample players so that everyone has access to the same sounds...
I agree. Still, this seems technically possible... I hope someone can look into this.

I found a similar project that streams sound parameters instead of live audio for online musical collaboration. http://auracle.org . The results aren't really "music" though.
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Old 12-27-2007, 06:08 PM   #5
AndyMc
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To get it working on Dial-Up the server would have to be set to 2kbps audio mono and peoples sources would need to be clean to keep the stream clear.
Its something some have asked for in the server, to have the option to set audio compression rate.
It could introduce new problems or make some servers sooooo full that it would be a few playing, rest listening or a total mess.

I suggested a possibility of maybe having radio spots at a lower rate, which would still allow people to talk text, mute who they didn't want to hear and give us an audience to play too, that would be cool IMO.
I think this would stop some spouting out wrong key overdriven out of sync stuff sometimes.
Would be wicked if
NINJAM had shoutcast servers again and maybe even a Second Life Venue.
I think having added features could incur a small sign up fee which could maybe have included a cut down version of NINJAM.
So people could still Jam but some features wouldn't be available. Like non broadcast to Shoucast/SL, shown but muted as non registered.
Costs may require more than a sign up fee but it would be a nifty way to push REAPER and help pay for costs of extra's.

People may say hey don't ruin the free'ness of NINJAM, but it could stay free so people using it now would have same as they do now but extra's would be there to be purchased.

I'm sure if NINJAM received funding it might get more effort put into it. We can't expect people to stop earning money on other projects to use all there time on a Free Project.

I think with payments people are happy with larger one off fee's, an reasonable annual fee's or smaller per month fee's. Big month;y fee's would push out most and only allow wealthier people. Also it creates a "ITS MINE I PAID FOR IT!" Attitudes so anyone new or who can not afford could be treated like they have no opinion or say.

TBH I like it at the mo, its perfect, I'd just love to see avatars and some other add ons and if it meant paying to see it then I'd be willing to open my wallet. I will have to travel the seven seas, clime mountains and run away from large Balls of Rock to get to it, but I think it would be worth the sacrifice.

Also it may allow people to get more in a server and run at lower kbps.

I'm babbling now, its late and I got bad indigestion and nothing to cure it.
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Old 12-28-2007, 01:41 AM   #6
pljones
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I'd rather pay for access to servers with extra features and keep the code fully open source, with all the features supported on all platforms... (And a VST plugin version. )
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Originally Posted by Tony Williams
...Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world.
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