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Old 02-12-2010, 07:26 PM   #41
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Well there is a little club based out of Yale that has been producing American "players" on the world stage for some time.

If you want faces look up both the directors and the agents in the CIA. Google will bring back some photos. That's just the short list, quick and dirty but it's something.

Its all there if you want it. Don't expect me to do it all for you.
Next you will want me to write your music too.
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:29 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
BILDEBERGER!!!

do i get a point?
That's an event. I need pictures, preferably audio of two guys whispering stuff like: "Look at those lemmings! Little do they know that...." etc.

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Old 02-12-2010, 07:33 PM   #43
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Well there is a little club based out of Yale that has been producing American "players" on the world stage for some time.

If you want faces look up both the directors and the agents in the CIA. Google will bring back some photos. That's just the short list, quick and dirty but it's something.

Its all there if you want it. Don't expect me to do it all for you.
Next you will want me to write your music too.
I don't think that even YOU are doing it for yourself. There are guys in the CIA who don't do the dirty stuff. Others who do. Which are which?

My point is that it's usually a few indivduals with privileged access. And they always come and go every few decades. It's just a banquet for gluttons. But to say that it's organized is like saying that greedy people like to share their power ( (or Olympic athletes their gold medals.)

Human nature says the odds are against.
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:33 PM   #44
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"What do you get for pretending the danger's not real.
Meek and obedient you follow the leader
Down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel.
What a surprise!
A look of terminal shock in your eyes.
Now things are really what they seem.
No, this is no bad dream."
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:41 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by foweler View Post
"What do you get for pretending the danger's not real.
Meek and obedient you follow the leader
Down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel.
What a surprise!
A look of terminal shock in your eyes.
Now things are really what they seem.
No, this is no bad dream."
There are better things to do in life than be afraid of things which I cannot see. If you want to fight the power, go to Walmart and debate them about quality of life versus discount prices. That's what I call progress. But talking about boogie men does squat if you can't flush them out and bring them to the table. And those that are flushed out always play naive.

So where does one go from there? Keep complaining? Keep "them" ing?

Do something.
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:48 PM   #46
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I agree there is a bit ambiguity whether the "organizational structure" responsible for the phenomenon is purported or organic. And should it be purported, whether there are a bunch of guys in a smoky room chomping on cigars tweaking plug-ins to perfection or a chimpanzee banging on the bongos is in question. Should it be organic, well this is the natural course of civilized sentient beings I suppose and can't be helped?

It is hard to doubt that a privileged group recognizes what keeps them privileged and will do what they think they can to remain so, to build upon it where possible. To try even when impossible. Whether they are virtuosos or hacks. One thing has been admitted "Never let a crisis go to waste."

There are evil men operating in the shadows and control of the money is the greatest source of their power. End the Fed(here anyway), go back to gold (or something scarce) and we cut up their credit cards. They can only sell so much heroin and cocaine and if we stop the ridiculous "war on drugs" we can take the profitability out of that too.

Your old buddy Mayer said "Give me control of a nation's currency and I care not who makes her laws." Or maybe he didn't, I wasn't there with a laptop loaded with Reaper to record it.
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:53 PM   #47
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Don't worry too much about Walmart. China is moving to disconnect their currency from ours. They upped their central bank reserve requirements today. Should be interesting to watch.

When China, and other producing nations realize they should protect their own economies, which they will soon enough,they are, their standard of living will skyrocket and ours will plummet.

The good part is we can go back to producing and exporting. Its just going to hurt like hell for a while.
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:58 PM   #48
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...There are evil men operating in the shadows and control of the money is the greatest source of their power.
Big leap again. I know about the monetary system. The Medici cartel of old, usury, and all of it.

Show me where to go and what to do beyond being an angry victim bystander. That's all I'm saying. Where's the call to action? There is none. There's just this legend/myth perpetuated complaining about people who have more than us poor slobs. Sounds like pre French Revolution grumbling, but without the revolution.
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:10 PM   #49
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I just did, cut off the funding. The money created out of thin air that by its very creation devalues all of your cash holdings (well, you are a musician so maybe you don't have any)effectively redistributing the real wealth (what the money can buy, then and now) into the hands of the first users of this new money, before the inflationary effects take place.

But you said you know this. Then why are you not calling for a hard currency?

And I AM doing something, I'm talking to you.
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:34 PM   #50
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...devalues all of your cash holdings (well, you are a musician so maybe you don't have any)

And I AM doing something, I'm talking to you.
You never quite know who you're talking to. I wish you luck in doing your part. My position on the matter doesn't come from ignorance but from insight. And so I no longer worry. I just create, as is intended, because that's what makes me happy. Joy defeats everything. Or so I have found.
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:18 PM   #51
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Anyone here ever hear of Major General Smedley Butler? You should google him if you haven't. He had a lot to say about how his wartime excursions in the early 20th century were by and large missions to make the world safe for certain American corporations to do business and little more.
...
You want the root of the problem look no farther than govt itself and the tails that actually wag that dog. Look at the financial tools they have been using to fool us for decades and don't believe it when they try to marginalize or otherwise distract from men who have done nothing but speak the truth and vote their conscience for 30 years like Ron Paul.
Believe it or not Smedley is in my family tree, or so says one aunt that's into such things, I have no idea, honestly.

As for "the gov't itself", perhaps it bears some thought as to exactly who "the gov't itself" is.

Can't say I know for sure, but certainly seems the line from Apocalyse Now applies, "You are nothing but a clerk, sent by shopkeepers, to collect the bill".

But at the same time, business owners *are* citizens, and America's financial interests are it's citizens' interests, so it's a hair ball to be sure.

One thing is for certain, lots of folks were raised believing that investment was the way... when their main investment, their homes, looked like it was finally paying off... well we know the rest.

As to fault, yeah, I blame the financial "gurus" that built the whole house of cards. Certainly working folks who finally had a chance to taste "the good life" can't really be blamed when even Greenspan was saying at one point, "Go ahead, jump in" in so many words.

Ah well, you can't deny basic physical principles. A system based on infinite growth can only go so long on a finite planet before we hit the edges of the petri dish, LOL!

For me, at my age, and the way it has confronted me, even though I had no investments at the time of the crunch, no exotic mortgage, etc. I will probably have to work the rest of my life, as despite not being in the game in that way, being a worker bee, I've certainly been hit.

In the end, I think the only reason folks aren't picking up torches and pitchforks is that the majority are still making it through.

If it gets bad enough though... well, should be interesting to see what sort of scenario evolves. Too soon to tell. I'll be hoping that someone comes up with a sustainable system before then, that's for sure.

Hopefully a sustainable system that still has some semblance of the concept of personal freedom, but of course without the Mad Max setting.
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:22 PM   #52
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Big leap again. I know about the monetary system. The Medici cartel of old, usury, and all of it.

Show me where to go and what to do beyond being an angry victim bystander. That's all I'm saying. Where's the call to action? There is none. There's just this legend/myth perpetuated complaining about people who have more than us poor slobs. Sounds like pre French Revolution grumbling, but without the revolution.
Well, I think the deal is, folks still want that "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" for themselves. No one *really* wants what a true blood-in-the-streets Revolution means.

The average schmoo really just wants to live well. As long as it looks like there might be a chance of that to enough people, revolt likely won't occur.

Revolution is pretty much the last resort of folks with nothing left to lose, right?
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Old 02-13-2010, 05:36 AM   #53
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Well, I think the deal is, folks still want that "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" for themselves. No one *really* wants what a true blood-in-the-streets Revolution means.

The average schmoo really just wants to live well. As long as it looks like there might be a chance of that to enough people, revolt likely won't occur.

Revolution is pretty much the last resort of folks with nothing left to lose, right?

Agreed...and the average person wants to be left alone to do their thing.....but if one isn't involved at least in their surroundings one will not know whats going on.
Plans have been hatched by powerful people for a very long time that have/had/shall complete their agendas.....that isn't a secret, it's not a conspiracy....just check out the local news or do some research on the web. There is a plethora of info out there, just gotta weed thru the bullsh1t and do research on facts. This takes time....time away from what you would like to do... but if one cares about what is going on...one will research and come up with an informed conclusion.
If a person feels you have an obligation to have your voice heard on these things...it's good to have a post about it, but it would be great to do it thru music...( we do have an awesome recording system to use! lol)....Many have done that...Dave Mustaine, Iced Earth, KSR, and a myriad of others that have expressed this info thru music. Give it a shot! Express it!
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Old 02-13-2010, 04:32 PM   #54
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If a person feels you have an obligation to have your voice heard on these things...it's good to have a post about it, but it would be great to do it thru music...( we do have an awesome recording system to use! lol)....Many have done that...Dave Mustaine, Iced Earth, KSR, and a myriad of others that have expressed this info thru music. Give it a shot! Express it!
Yes! Not to mention old bands like Consolidated and Bad Religion.
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Old 02-13-2010, 11:58 PM   #55
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Agreed...and the average person wants to be left alone to do their thing.....but if one isn't involved at least in their surroundings one will not know whats going on.
Plans have been hatched by powerful people for a very long time that have/had/shall complete their agendas.....that isn't a secret, it's not a conspiracy....just check out the local news or do some research on the web. There is a plethora of info out there, just gotta weed thru the bullsh1t and do research on facts. This takes time....time away from what you would like to do... but if one cares about what is going on...one will research and come up with an informed conclusion.
If a person feels you have an obligation to have your voice heard on these things...it's good to have a post about it, but it would be great to do it thru music...( we do have an awesome recording system to use! lol)....Many have done that...Dave Mustaine, Iced Earth, KSR, and a myriad of others that have expressed this info thru music. Give it a shot! Express it!
Ah well, I lack the talent to express it musically, and well, the economy is biting my derriere sufficiently that I can't really indulge in the luxury of the emotional content required to write good tunes at the moment.

Unfortunately I have to stay as focused on surviving this part of the journey as I can. As per the usual, my desire to craft great tunes has to be back burnered for the time being.

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Old 02-14-2010, 11:38 AM   #56
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Perhaps the most useful information for keeping our heads on straight comes from Canada's own RUSH. Neil seems to hit just about everything of importance in life and offers some good advice along the way.

The next revolution will be silent. Shhhh. Keep it to yourself.
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Old 02-14-2010, 05:34 PM   #57
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@ Kundalinguist ::

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nD7dbkkBIA

interesting interview with interesting informations...
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Old 02-14-2010, 07:22 PM   #58
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Perhaps the most useful information for keeping our heads on straight comes from Canada's own RUSH. Neil seems to hit just about everything of importance in life and offers some good advice along the way.

The next revolution will be silent. Shhhh. Keep it to yourself.
Take off, eh?
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Old 02-15-2010, 02:07 PM   #59
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@ Kundalinguist ::

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nD7dbkkBIA

interesting interview with interesting informations...
Hey there.

IMO, That's not really insight. It's old info that's been around since the early 90's. Furthermore, a now dead guy talking about events (hearsay) that have already happened, quoting someone (hearsay) whose name shows up in books about conspiracies...hmmm. You know, I can't convict on that evidence.

However, there's no doubt that bankers are getting the breaks, at least in the USA. But then, they're the ones feeding the credit pipeline that allows me to use my credit card. It's a weird love hate thing. I've bought gear on credit. Can't say that I'll be tagged soon though.

Thanks for the thought. I've been hearing and reading about this for nearly 2 decades.
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Old 02-15-2010, 02:08 PM   #60
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"They say there are strangers who threaten us..." Witch Hunt, RUSH.
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Old 02-15-2010, 04:28 PM   #61
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Believe it or not Smedley is in my family tree, or so says one aunt that's into such things, I have no idea, honestly.
So you can't get me a copy of "War Is A Racket" for free then? I'm too leveraged to buy one right now

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A system based on infinite growth can only go so long on a finite planet before we hit the edges of the petri dish, LOL!
That is actually a fallacy, usually brought up by that those who believe if you have wealth then by necessity someone else must not. After all it is a closed system right? (I'm not saying you think that way, just that the way this concept get used irritates me) That's not really how true wealth creation works.
It would be similar to saying the biosphere can't have infinite growth. It does (at least until the Sun burns out, but even then life may have left the Earth by then= growth.) The growth is always in motion but there is death to balance it, recirculating the materials of life. It's not expansion, its growth.
The economy works the same way, even better if you don't screw with it.

True, one must be willing to change to roll with the economic punches,(bankruptcy, going out of business sale-everything half off) but left to grow, the economy will always provide in some way (hey there's a half off sale- now we can afford to start that new business we've been saving for), even if it isn't exactly what one wants at that moment. (change of career, change location, less pay, etc...) The payoff in the end is the costs of living eventually come into balance with what one actually tries (working, thinking about changing trends and how they might effect one, being prepared) is able to make.

True cases of poverty result from the meddling, usually some form of protectionism that is invariably answered by some form of counter-regulation, and so on... Artificial economic forces that actually perpetuate the poverty. Without said forces the poverty would be absorbed by the market. People would on average be wealthier. Wealthier people are more charitable people when they are not being robbed to provide a safety net for others to abuse. Those who are truly down will find help back up.

That would leave only those who actively seek unemployment being out right impoverished as they would be the only ones left to perpetuate their situation.

Sorry, that might have wandered off where we were heading a bit.


Hail Peart!
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Old 02-15-2010, 04:33 PM   #62
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"just because you're paranoid.... don't mean they're not after you"
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Old 02-15-2010, 04:41 PM   #63
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Wealthier people are more charitable people when they are not being robbed to provide a safety net for others to abuse.
I have never seen anything close to that behavior in my entire life. Or better, the closest was the occassional bone thrown to someone to make the wealthy feel less guilty but that bone in no way remotely resembles not being poor anymore. Wealthy people do whatever it takes to keep themselves wealthy, period; anything else is second place. The idea of "bar stool economics" is complete fallacy perpetuated by the wealthy to keep the poor quiet and waiting on something that will never come, and it never has nor ever will. Wealth condensation is very much as real as wealth distribution and it's being able to recognize the right balance of the two, not assuming one or the other is wrong. Left untouched, wealth condensation would result in a small minority holding 99% of the money and the remaining huge majority working for them. Ever heard the lyric "Owe my soul to the company store" ? It's not just a lyric.

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Old 02-15-2010, 06:09 PM   #64
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Its govt meddling, one way and the other that stacks the odds in favor of those 99% as they are controlled by them.

Break that up (GREATLY weaken the govt) and then you would see what freedom can do. We have never had freedom.

And when I say "wealthy people" just imagine I'm referring to you and everyone else, not the conniving 99% that had a mind to stack the deck against you. How charitable would YOU be with means beyond your needs, especially if you knew there was no govt net to catch the TRULY needy?

Charity has been shown to respond inversely proportionately to the level of govt welfare available. Seems obvious it would.
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Old 02-15-2010, 07:31 PM   #65
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Hey there.

IMO, That's not really insight. It's old info that's been around since the early 90's. Furthermore, a now dead guy talking about events (hearsay) that have already happened, quoting someone (hearsay) whose name shows up in books about conspiracies...hmmm. You know, I can't convict on that evidence.

However, there's no doubt that bankers are getting the breaks, at least in the USA. But then, they're the ones feeding the credit pipeline that allows me to use my credit card. It's a weird love hate thing. I've bought gear on credit. Can't say that I'll be tagged soon though.

Thanks for the thought. I've been hearing and reading about this for nearly 2 decades.
The fact is that there can be more or less NO evidence of any kind about all this stuff. If one day History talks about it, it will be at least in 50 years - may all this be true or not. We don't have - and can't have - the necessary distance (in time and space) for that.

So we are more or less condemned to do without evidences, may all this be true or not. What I choose to do in such case is to use my intuition and feeling. As the cold and scientific reason can not find its need, instinct is what is left to discover something about all this.

And I have the intuition that this man speaks true. That he is sincere. That there is a scent of authenticity coming from his speech. That he reports conversations, if not as they actually were in detail, at least the best and most accurate he remembers them. Especially when you consider how it fits to the world we live in as it is shown to us.

Even in trials, there is nothing like undeniable evidences. history of justice is full of cases that were absolutely sure to be this, since 10 years later a new element shows that on the contrary it was that. It's always a matter of faith. A witness is nothing more than someone to be trusted - or not -, may he tell the truth or not. You believe him or not and try to figure out truth with it. And the risk of mistake can NEVER, NEVER be eradicated.

In those domain - as in many more - truth is an unreachable goal. Knowledge is an illusion - and a proof of pride. There is only faith in things that one has more or less reasons to believe depending on one's experience about a certain matter.

I accept with that. I deal wit that. And I fear that if evidences is what you claim to need in order to give faith to such things - which can be easily understandable by the way - you will wait for a long time, far after all that is feared and said to be in reparation by those people happen. And you may wake up too late.

BTW, I agree with you about the "I just create, as is intended, because that's what makes me happy. Joy defeats everything. Or so I have found." words of wisdom to me...
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Old 02-15-2010, 08:41 PM   #66
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How charitable would YOU be with means beyond your needs, especially if you knew there was no govt net to catch the TRULY needy?
I tend to expect substance to back anyone's claim that left untouched, he who has all the toys carefully takes care of those whom he took the toys from. I see it as a human behavior issue and it's not really a great choice to not have limits on that behavior. We'll... its a great choice for those with all the power, oops, I mean money. power=money Like I said, balance.

Peace

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Old 02-15-2010, 08:44 PM   #67
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The fact is that there can be more or less NO evidence of any kind about all this stuff. If one day History talks about it, it will be at least in 50 years - may all this be true or not. We don't have - and can't have - the necessary distance (in time and space) for that.
I'm also addressing the state of mind itself - the constant fear and adversarial atmosphere of the conspiracy theory itself. It leaves room for nothing else because it becomes so consuming. And yet, the same is true of UFOs, which I have also studied to no end and no definitive conclusion.

And so I say, when it is time to march, I will put on my shoes. Before that, Reaper.

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Old 02-15-2010, 08:48 PM   #68
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And so I say, when it is time to march, I will put on my shoes. Before that, Reaper.

I will call you this day if I have the luck to be among those who will manage to give to the people the will to raise, stand up and walk .
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Old 02-15-2010, 08:53 PM   #69
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I will call you this day if I have the luck to be among those who will manage to give to the people the will to raise, stand up and walk .
I love to walk. But I hate running.
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:17 PM   #70
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And yet, the same is true of UFOs, which I have also studied to no end and no definitive conclusion.
Dealing with UFOs, another testimony which is of some interest to question while using intuition to find out whether this is authentic and sincere or not...

Personnally, I'm troubled. I have no conclusion, but Im troubled.

http://www.vidoemo.com/yvideo.php?i=...emons-must-see

One thing about fear : its best weapon and refugee would be denial. I see fear in some people's will not to want to even question 911. I'm not sure conspiracy theories can be understood as a logical answer to fear...
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:56 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Iokanaan View Post
Dealing with UFOs, another testimony which is of some interest to question while using intuition to find out whether this is authentic and sincere or not...

Personnally, I'm troubled. I have no conclusion, but Im troubled.

http://www.vidoemo.com/yvideo.php?i=...emons-must-see

One thing about fear : its best weapon and refugee would be denial. I see fear in some people's will not to want to even question 911. I'm not sure conspiracy theories can be understood as a logical answer to fear...
The guy in Sixth Sense who shot Bruce Willis (Wahlberg's bro) did a very convincing "psychological distress" imitation, too. That doesn't mean the movie was real.

I've heard that phone call before. I don't consider it as evidence.
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Old 02-16-2010, 05:13 AM   #72
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The guy in Sixth Sense who shot Bruce Willis (Wahlberg's bro) did a very convincing "psychological distress" imitation, too. That doesn't mean the movie was real.

I've heard that phone call before. I don't consider it as evidence.
Right. As I said, nothing like an "evidence" can be found considering all this, may it be true or not. Only testimonies of witnesses that one does trust or not. We won't have more to build a point of view - and maybe to hear the call of the siren before the bombing.

BTW, was the imitation of the guy in 6th sense accompanied by a complete breakdown of the phoning system ? :-)

Anyway, i don't say "hey, here is the truth". I just say "here is something that, to me, asks questions. Questions that NEED to be asked. And intuition that NEEDS to be used". But yes, maybe it's another manipulation.
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Old 02-16-2010, 07:09 AM   #73
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Right. As I said, nothing like an "evidence" can be found considering all this, may it be true or not. Only testimonies of witnesses that one does trust or not. We won't have more to build a point of view - and maybe to hear the call of the siren before the bombing.

BTW, was the imitation of the guy in 6th sense accompanied by a complete breakdown of the phoning system ? :-)

Anyway, i don't say "hey, here is the truth". I just say "here is something that, to me, asks questions. Questions that NEED to be asked. And intuition that NEEDS to be used". But yes, maybe it's another manipulation.
IM JUST ASKING QUESTIONS!

http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/251890/



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Old 02-16-2010, 08:59 AM   #74
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"The fact is that there can be more or less NO evidence of any kind about all this stuff. If one day History talks about it, it will be at least in 50 years - may all this be true or not. We don't have - and can't have - the necessary distance (in time and space) for that.

So we are more or less condemned to do without evidences, may all this be true or not. What I choose to do in such case is to use my intuition and feeling. As the cold and scientific reason can not find its need, instinct is what is left to discover something about all this."


I respectfully disagree...there is alot of documented proof...I absolutely love the internet! Ha!
Again, as I stated before, one has to wade thru the bullsh1t...but there are alot of documents ( official government), videos (C-Span, AP, etc.) and people on the inside that have provided actual evedince but then are merginalized by media. Again, it takes time to research, but if you want to really know whats going on, the proof is there.
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:47 PM   #75
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"The fact is that there can be more or less NO evidence of any kind about all this stuff. If one day History talks about it, it will be at least in 50 years - may all this be true or not. We don't have - and can't have - the necessary distance (in time and space) for that.

So we are more or less condemned to do without evidences, may all this be true or not. What I choose to do in such case is to use my intuition and feeling. As the cold and scientific reason can not find its need, instinct is what is left to discover something about all this."


I respectfully disagree...there is alot of documented proof...I absolutely love the internet! Ha!
Again, as I stated before, one has to wade thru the bullsh1t...but there are alot of documents ( official government), videos (C-Span, AP, etc.) and people on the inside that have provided actual evedince but then are merginalized by media. Again, it takes time to research, but if you want to really know whats going on, the proof is there.
San Antonio, you should know Whitley Strieber then. Yet even he, a first hand UFO close encounters of the fourth kind guy still struggles with what to make of his own experience. Sometimes he doubts that it's real, other times not. I figure if he's confused, then we all have a right to be.

I think the greatest crime that we can commit toward ourselves, the truth and humanity, is to force the available evidence or hearsay to fit into our existing beliefs. That serves no master but ignorance. We have all done it, not just about conspiracies, but about our innocence.
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:12 PM   #76
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I see it as a human behavior issue and it's not really a great choice to not have limits on that behavior.
It never ceases to amaze me how people can point to the manipulative ways of human nature as a potential source for grief if too much power is allowed to condense and then praise the good and just condensation of power of the collection of humans we call government all in the same breath.

Where did the cautious cynicism suddenly go?
Politicians are not only made of the same evil stuff every other human is made out of but their personalities actually are DRAWN to that kind of authority. Just like the evil capitalist would-be despots.

These people usually defend their position with the claim that at least they have some say in the whos and hows of the management of this power as they head off to the polls holding their noses while voting for someone they neither like nor trust in a choice of the lesser of two evils.

Public Choice Theory goes a long way to explain how politicians are just like any other actors in the market, making choices for the exact same reasons, regardless of their claimed motives. Even if they start out pure as snow they must play the game to survive.

And people believe concentrating power in these people's hands is somehow going to lead to a better outcome than the "natural evolution" of robber barons, who if they did some research, they would see were actually enabled by the "official" power structures in place in history and are even more so today.

They fear monopolies but don't mind throwing their weight behind an institution that currently holds a monopoly on the making of law, the use of force, the last word in conflict resolution and control of a fiat currency. And of course, the monopoly on choosing who ends up on the ballots that provide us that false sense of involvement beyond being made subservient and being subsequently fleeced.

Balance my ass.

Not very logical thinking if you ask me.
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:32 PM   #77
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That must correctly be spelled as chINeese.
Is it the chinese, or those that decided to send their manufacturing work to China, consumers who choose lower cost chinese goods, something else?

I mean, if you put yourself into the shoes of each actor, they all made rational decisions based on their own pocketbooks, right?

So maybe the real question should be, "Why are labor costs so different from one place in the world and the next, and should it be that way? If so, why?"

The underlying thought being, well, maybe if we focused on bringing the entire world standard of living up, such regional issues wouldn't exist.

Perhaps then other issues would become determinant though, can't say I've thought it out fully.

But, seems that if everyone worldwide, including our financial leadership were focused on real world gains in standard of living, vrs. on paper gains, perhaps these games could be done away with?

In the interim, it is what it is and each actor has to act according to the situation he finds himself in. Unless he's so well of he can act with impunity.

Since we've structured the whole thing as a competition, this is how things go. However, trying to structure it as a collaboration (e.g. communism, or perhaps Soviet style communism) has also proven a failure.

It will likely take something beyond what has been in the past to really elevate the world and, at the same time, preserve some semblence of person freedom.

Unfortunately, "engineering everything" runs counter to "individual freedom" or as Alexis de Toqueville pointed up around 1835-ish "Majority Rule" and "Individual Freedom" are the two ideals of American Democracy that are interstingly, at complete odds with each other. As clearly anyone in the 49% loses his individual freedom, if majority rule is in effect, LOL!

Will likely take a complete world calamity, the appearance of a God, or Alien Beings, for folks to really step back and ask, "Just what the heck are we trying to do here anyway???"
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Old 02-24-2010, 06:39 AM   #78
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You know, on any other forum I can think of, this very topic would have turned into a partisan flame war in nothing flat. Here people are thoughtful and don't start stepping on toes or poking ribs.

Newfound respect for the Reaper people.

If I can sort a punch in/out foot switch solution, I'll probably be joining your ranks, but the quality of souls that populate this place is truly impressive.

Cheers to you all!
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Old 04-16-2010, 07:45 AM   #79
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You know, on any other forum I can think of, this very topic would have turned into a partisan flame war in nothing flat. Here people are thoughtful and don't start stepping on toes or poking ribs.

Newfound respect for the Reaper people.

If I can sort a punch in/out foot switch solution, I'll probably be joining your ranks, but the quality of souls that populate this place is truly impressive.

Cheers to you all!

Yeah? That's just what a leftist softee, elitist, death-panelling, seed-eating, veggie burger loving, overspending, welfare state creating, tree hugging, pot-smoking, gay-marrying, "expert"-hiring socialist communist liberal would say.



EDIT: I forgot to add "pro-amphibian."
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