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Old 08-28-2008, 08:39 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
where is this progress you speak of?
Sadly, nowhere even close but hey ! I play guitar and bass some keyboards and I sing... so I'll try and maybe achieve more than just a band's reference demo.
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Old 08-28-2008, 09:04 PM   #202
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and on it goes.
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Old 08-28-2008, 09:20 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by Tallisman View Post
and on it goes.

Is that a good thing ?
A french ''word to word'' translation would wear a negative value.....
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Old 08-28-2008, 10:51 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
Descartes: I think, therefore I am not sure.
Nietzsche: A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that milk does not prove anything.
Magritte: This is not a glass of milk.
Zeno: Hey, did it just move?
Kant: Hmmm, it' reasonably pure, but that's not an imperative.
Einstein: Depends on how fast it is.
Socrates: I know that I don't know that. You tell me.
nightscope: It nulls OK.
gofer: Now it's empty, thanks.
Smart people makes me laugh in a good way..... I wish I was there


Gofer: To drink the glass of milk was the right thing to do, I have my moments, , , sure..... But you made yourself a friend out of me.

Last edited by Zee; 08-28-2008 at 11:29 PM.
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Old 08-28-2008, 11:54 PM   #205
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Your welcome, zee.

Please figure that I chose to drink the full bit of the glass. I left the empty part in there...

Perception is a matter of (unconcious) choice. And: Do some music with whatever you got, not with what you wish you had.

cheers
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Old 08-28-2008, 11:56 PM   #206
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I am on to it

Thanks for aknowledging.... darkness makes me blind sometimes.
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Old 08-29-2008, 04:39 AM   #207
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http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewto...er=asc&start=0


This guy has the same problem you do.
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:48 PM   #208
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Vouse etes francophone?
Sinon, pourqui tous les fautes d`Anglais?


Translation for all you Americans:
Hey, get with the program!

Obsessing over nulling has very little at all to do with making music, ol` son.
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Old 09-12-2008, 05:46 PM   #209
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This topic kinda not good for experienced REAPER users.
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Old 09-27-2008, 06:01 AM   #210
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Just wondering, can we have this thread moved to a permanent forum section instead of the spam trap? There is some really hysterically funny stuff in here, and I for one would hate to lose it.

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Old 09-27-2008, 06:44 AM   #211
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Did a Poo,
Compared the two.
Listened carefuly.
The poo made no sound whatsoever which wasn't very surprising really, but there you go.
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:19 AM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedwood View Post
Zee is right folks Reaper does sound like shit.

My dog had a shit earlier today and I recorded it. When I play back the recording of the shit through my hifi and disco speakers, and then listen carefully to the turd in an isolation chamber I can state that they sound so similar as to be indistinguishable.
The evidence is irrefutable.

Just to make certain It was not psycho-acoustics or pilot error I made another recording of the shit on another track and reversed the phase, sure enough when I pressed playback guess what - nothing, the two shits nulled - proving that Reaper does indeed sound like shit.

How bout that?
Now, see, this is an example of what happens when things are not thought out carefully enough. This test has a certain emotional appeal, but suffers from a false basic premise.

To remedy this defect, I hired the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, and had them sing "Reaper" in four parts into track one.

I then had them sing "Shit" into track two, using identical harmonies through the same setup, microphones and all, from Track One.

When compared, the two tracks did not null. "Reaper" emphatically does NOT sound like "Shit".

Edit:
To be fair and complete, I just tried the same test in "Cubase". "Cubase" doesn't sound like "Shit" either. It does, however, sound like "Boullabaise".

-p
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Last edited by flight; 09-27-2008 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:34 AM   #213
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since i am using reaper, my mixes definitely sound better. i guess, if your mixing skills suck, then your mix will sound like shit. whatever daw you use.
so don´t blame reaper for a weak mix.
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:39 AM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulOne82 View Post
since i am using reaper, my mixes definitely sound better. i guess, if your mixing skills suck, then your mix will sound like shit. whatever daw you use.
so don´t blame reaper for a weak mix.
yes, i only blame it for rashes and constipation
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Old 09-27-2008, 04:27 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flight View Post
Now, see, this is an example of what happens when things are not thought out carefully enough. This test has a certain emotional appeal, but suffers from a false basic premise.

To remedy this defect, I hired the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, and had them sing "Reaper" in four parts into track one.

I then had them sing "Shit" into track two, using identical harmonies through the same setup, microphones and all, from Track One.

When compared, the two tracks did not null. "Reaper" emphatically does NOT sound like "Shit".

Edit:
To be fair and complete, I just tried the same test in "Cubase". "Cubase" doesn't sound like "Shit" either. It does, however, sound like "Boullabaise".

-p
Well I can see your point Flight, you assertion seems to be valid, which would prove my own to be erroneous. Being a simple layman I find the evidence hard to dispute, but I have a very unsettling suspicion I have been outwitted by crafty wordplay and scientific jigerypokery beyond my own comprehension.

Although I can't say I find your argument totally overwhelming, since your experiment does seem to substantiate Reaper sounds like shit 50 per cent of the time.

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Old 09-27-2008, 05:10 PM   #216
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There is this magical thing called "vibe" in the audio world. Sometimes it is also called a "mojo".

I was as unconvinced by CD-audio HiFi claims as I am by "all DAWs sound equally well because rendered wavs cancel to zero".

But where is the difference hidden ?

1) Is it in the attractive GUI of one DAW that inspires some of us better, changes the state of consciousness if we perceive sound coming out of speakers, when looking at the screen ?

2) In the way sliders, meters or knobs are scaled/calibrated, that invites certain mixing/production decisions ?

3) In the way a DAW clips signal or sometimes deletes "not important" frequencies because in mathematical theory they won't be heard by the listener (for instance quality changes between Waves REQ versions were sometimes drastic) ?

4) In some sub-digital (analog) differences caused by different application code in the computer itself (remember, the sound comes from a machine, not from an application itself) ?

One similar, very clear example is a primitive delay effect. After all these years I have found only *one* VST plugin delay, that has really good depth. It is the stock delay from UAD. Taps are clear and blend well, they have their own space. Well, another good stock delay is maybe found in PT. So how come, no other company is able to release a simple digital delay that sounds good ?

And, do we remember the early VST plugins ? They were said to be "100% as good as hardware": in fact compression is nothing but a VCA, EQ is also easy to program? Yeah, right.

I think that what we hear, the change of sound from one DAW to the other is based on very small differences in sound, that should be measured not within single machine domain, but using full D/A + A/D conversion route, recording the signal on another machine, playing @44.1 but captured at highest available sample and bit rate, and then checked for harmonic distortion, dither etc.

One final thought: I think Reaper sounds very, very well. In fact, that was the first thing I have noticed when testing this DAW, even before I have read about its high internal bit rate. I love its smooth sound ! And yes, I also appreciated Saw sound, for instance the way faders move or how sound the changes in envelopes. I think Saw was one of the first DAWs to implement steep-less value changes, wasn't it ?

Last edited by sebas777; 09-27-2008 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:56 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedwood View Post
Well I can see your point Flight, you assertion seems to be valid, which would prove my own to be erroneous. Being a simple layman I find the evidence hard to dispute, but I have a very unsettling suspicion I have been outwitted by crafty wordplay and scientific jigerypokery beyond my own comprehension.

Although I can't say I find your argument totally overwhelming, since your experiment does seem to substantiate Reaper sounds like shit 50 per cent of the time.

Egad, I am undone. I blame it all on double-blind study protocol. By putting a black patch over both eyes, I failed to note that Reaper does sound like shit half the time!

I still get the grant funding tho', yes? I mean its not cheap flying the bloody Choir around and putting them up in hotels and whatnot. Dang.

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Old 10-21-2008, 05:29 AM   #218
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Default Taste it

I have tried this and so far it seems very capable within internal bit rate processing. No lag or clicks, its fast loading, fast moving, low cpu, has enough features and looks good.

Will continue to experiment with Reaper and stay up to date with it's release versions... might even get better

Last edited by Soniqlab; 01-02-2010 at 10:29 PM. Reason: off topic slightly
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Old 10-21-2008, 07:26 AM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans View Post
Gentlemen, and ladies if any be present,

From time to time in every forum someone comes along whose posts are, intentionally or unintentionally, disruptive or timewasting or just below the standard of the rest (which here is pretty high).

As worthwhile and rational discussions with such individuals are never productive and simply encourage more timewasting posts, it's essential to ignore them. Getting drawn in is empowering to the disruptive poster and can only assist them in lowering the overall standards of discussion.

Zee has repeatedly stated his opinion, and forum members have repeatedly disagreed. He is not going to accept the views of others and others are not going to accept his.

So that would appear to be the end of the matter in this and whatever other threads Zee cares to begin or add to. Turn on your personal 'ignore' filters and move on to more productive matters.

+1 for that, Art!

These "Reaper-sounds-like-shit"-posts get boring more and more and lead nowhere. I wonder, what these Ultragods, 2beeprnot2beeps and Zees are up to. Must be an extremely pitiful life to live, trying to get at least some reaction, making these superfluous noises here.



-Data

Last edited by Mr. Data; 10-21-2008 at 07:54 AM.
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Old 12-14-2008, 04:30 PM   #220
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Isn't the plural of software, "software". User error.
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Old 09-04-2009, 07:54 PM   #221
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Default Saw VS Reaper----Coda

Howdy,

I started on Vision years ago, then Studio Vision, Digital Performer, Garageband, and then finally Logic- all on the Mac.

Last year I decided to check out Reaper (on the PC) and was very impressed. But I did notice the same cloudiness when trying to play back a lot of tracks that I sometimes got in Logic 7/8 until you back off the mix bus level.

Yesterday I tried out SAW Studio. SAW does seem to have a little more dimension in general. I took the same three .wav files that come with the SAW demo and loaded them into SAW and Reaper at the same time. I was able to run both apps at the same time using the Soundmax card. When using ASIO with the new M-Audio Profire 610 the sound would cut out when trying to run both apps at once. I was able to hear down into the mix ever so slightly better in SAW. When switching back to Reaper I perceived a slight phase shift in the sound.

If you try different pan law settings in Reaper you can get it closer to the sound of SAW or Protools HD if you want. For those who think there is not a difference in the sound quality of DAW's or most digital devices, I respectfully remind you of the late '80's when Sony and Mitsubishi were battling for market share in the digital tape wars: The Mit was 32 tracks, the Sony was first 24 then 48 tracks. To my ears- and many others- the Mit had a slightly punchier sound- not a necessarily better sound. Listen to the Tears For Fears song "Woman In Chains" which I recall as being recorded on the Mit, and then compare it with the song "Let It Go" from the Japanese band Loudness, which I recall being done on the Sony. If you do not hear a difference- oh well- keep stepping and don't concern yourself. I do hear a difference. I like the sound of SAW, but I struggle justifying the cost of purchasing SAW. The interface is not even close-IMHO-to the clean layout of Reaper. Different worlds... but I do hear a slight difference in dimension of sound. So be it. There is a difference in sound between a Millennia Media Mic pre and a Forsell mic pre, yet on paper they should sound the same. They do not. A Studer 16/24 track analog tape deck sounds different than an Otari- on paper they should not, but in real world use they do. I have recorded professionally released albums on the Studer and Otari machines. I recorded to digital tape during a session in France- each machine definitely had signature sound.

Reaper is a great product and I will continue to use it. Overall, if you compare features and usability, Reaper actually (IMO) wins the war at much less cost with constant upgrades and improvements.

Keep making beautiful music and try to keep things civil as we discuss these details. (Gearslutz.com forum...hee hee) Music, love and compassion will hopefully overtake the fear, apathy and hate that too often dominates this modern era.

Best wishes,

Jay Thompson
www.JayAlanThompson.com

Last edited by jayalanthomp; 09-05-2009 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 09-05-2009, 01:22 AM   #222
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MHO;
0s and 1s are all made equal.
Is what you place after them and how you place it. That makes the difference.
Sound engines are the same but all progrmas add things before the rendering path like Reason which places compression by default.
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Old 09-05-2009, 02:11 AM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayalanthomp View Post
I took the same three .wav files that come with the SAW demo and loaded them into SAW and Reaper at the same time. I was able to run both apps at the same time using the Soundmax card. When using ASIO with the new M-Audio Profire 610 the sound would cut out when trying to run both apps at once. I was able to hear down into the mix ever so slightly better in SAW. When switching back to Reaper I perceived a slight phase shift in the sound.
Hi Jay - it's intriguing stuff. I'm hoping you will post a render/bounce of the same mix of WAVs in both SAW and REAPER so we can hear the difference that you have mention.
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Old 09-05-2009, 03:35 AM   #224
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I really can't be bothered to deal or read through this but if not already mentioned why not just create a "null file" (google search) from the two different programs and be done with it!

Surely these guys are not company reps for saw in disguise! Lol that would be very desperate.
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Old 09-05-2009, 11:07 AM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew View Post
Hi Jay - it's intriguing stuff. I'm hoping you will post a render/bounce of the same mix of WAVs in both SAW and REAPER so we can hear the difference that you have mention.
Thanks Drew

But folks can do the test themselves- that way I don't have to endure having my methods questioned or argued about. I did not render because I normally mix to 2 track digital. I just did a simple playback test in each DAW with the levels matched.

Here are the steps:

1) Go to the SAW site and download their demo: http://www.sawstudio.com/downloads_demos.htm

2)After installing, be sure to start a new project in SAW to make sure that you are not using any effects.

3) Import the three .wav files from the demo project located here: C:\SAWStudioBasicDemo\Audio

RadioAd_Country_Music.wav

RadioAd_Country_Vocal.wav

RadioAd_Country_Sfx.wav


4)Load the same demo files into Reaper and any other DAW you have. Compare.

Thanks again for taking the time to contribute your thoughts

Peace,

Jay
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Old 09-05-2009, 11:46 AM   #226
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Personally, I really like the way Reaper sounds. I just don't like the smell.
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Old 09-05-2009, 03:22 PM   #227
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Zee, if your music sucks then what difference does it make how good the sound quality is?
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Old 09-05-2009, 07:33 PM   #228
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According to Jay's Post. If Saw does have more dimension, Just use that, instead of complaining about reaper. you know?

we all use the D.A.W's we do for a reason. For me, Ease of use, price, ect. This, is my first, i haven't had a chance to experiment.

Last edited by Amber.City; 09-05-2009 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 09-05-2009, 07:40 PM   #229
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This thread is over a year old and was dead for 9 months ... a hex on whoever resurrected it.
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Old 09-10-2009, 09:15 AM   #230
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Quote:
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This thread is over a year old and was dead for 9 months ... a hex on whoever resurrected it.

That would be jayalanthomp, Thread-Necromancer.
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:02 AM   #231
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this is a super interesting thread, let's lock it
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:06 AM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zee View Post
Tape machine = no tools

What year is it ?
Well. Do you really now where the term cutting and glueing comes from?!?
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Old 09-30-2009, 12:06 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
awesome!!!

i would really like to know what i can do to improve, perhaps you can tell me a few songs you didnt like, and let me know what i could have improved.

my recent mixes were done in much less than ideal conditions, i have improved my setup much since

anyway, let me know here, or hit me up via pm!!!

(some mixes of your own to compare would be wonderful!!!!)


Jason,

I listened to some of your music after the insult - so at minimum it proves that even bad publicity is good publicity! I liked your vibe - I can hear some beatles influence in there. Keep up the good work. I enjoyed the listen!

Dave

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Old 04-16-2010, 07:52 AM   #234
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Zee, are you dead?
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:50 AM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kundalinguist View Post
Zee, are you dead?
He goes by the name Zeewavesurfer these days...
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Old 04-16-2010, 09:44 AM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicroom View Post
Jason,

I listened to some of your music after the insult - so at minimum it proves that even bad publicity is good publicity! I liked your vibe - I can hear some beatles influence in there. Keep up the good work. I enjoyed the listen!

Dave

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why thank you!!!

you must understand of course that my music on my website is from varying times over the past 10 years and may not be representative of my current work. However I am planning on getting at least one more album done this summer!!!

until then my most recent works have been covers. At least ones I have released

http://www.jasonbrianmerrill.com/coversongs.html
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Old 04-16-2010, 10:36 AM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenakios View Post
He goes by the name Zeewavesurfer these days...
Well, if he's still around then I'm guessing that he doesn't hate Reaper quite as much as in the old days.

Reaper 1, Customer 1. Everybody Wins.

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Old 04-16-2010, 02:07 PM   #238
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Before today, I thought this thread was dead and buried...(locked)
Honestly, I would have liked it better if it had remained that way.

Here is a few precisions :

Back then, I didn't dislike Reaper in particular but pretty much all the daws I had tried.

This thread is the result of a build-up from other threads where I asked questions about improving my overall sound and tone only to be ridiculed by some other members of the community.

If those people weren't able to hear what I meant back then, I fail to think of why they would now.

I chose not to give up and kept looking for workarounds in order to achieve the level of quality my brain and my ears agreed on calling ''pro-sound''

Once I had succeeded, Reaper proved to be the best of all options among all the DAWs I know of.

I chose to come back as part of this community.
I chose to come back under the same nick.
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Old 04-16-2010, 02:56 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zee Wavesurfer View Post
Before today, I thought this thread was dead and buried...(locked)
Honestly, I would have liked it better if it had remained that way.

Here is a few precisions...

As Stephen Colbert would say: "Apology accepted!"
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