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Old 03-15-2012, 01:36 AM   #1
Fabian
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Default “Pirating” UK Student to be Extradited to the US...

http://torrentfreak.com/pirating-uk-...the-us-120313/

What he did (link to sites with links to copyrighted material) is apparently legal in the UK, but illegal in the US. So now they send him to US to be sentenced to prison...

I don't gettit...
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Old 03-15-2012, 02:56 AM   #2
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Yes, and neither do a lot of people here(UK)either.

Even if he did something stupid -- who hasn't when you're young; he could be criminalised and spend over 20 years in prison.

This will affect his mental health, not to mention what horrible fate awaits him as a young man in a jail full of hard men who haven't seen a woman in years.

The UK government is out of touch with the people on this one -- they seem to go along with the US without question.(not for the first time -- remember Blair as a Bush sock puppet).

If he committed any crime at all, which is highly debatable, he should be tried in the UK and if found guilty, spend prison time in the UK.

The US government seems to have got the bit between its teeth and now consider themselves the guardian and protector of the internet.

The biggest shame is upon the UK government --- strong when it comes to Europe, weak when it comes to the States.

As in many countries, a lot of people have lost total faith in the buffoons that run the country -- of any political persuasion.

The paranoia that runs rife in America vis-a-vis the internet reminds me of the Big Red Scare in the 40's and 50's when there was a "red" under every bed.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:10 AM   #3
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It's ridiculous. If someone does something in the UK that doesn't break UK law then that is that.

He should go the the European Court of Human Rights with this one.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:12 AM   #4
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Yes, it sure is ridiculous. Rather worrying how it's played out so far :-/
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:57 AM   #5
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An absolute disgrace.

I'd be interested to find out whether UK police act on behalf of other nations corporate interests?
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Old 03-15-2012, 07:30 AM   #6
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I think the servers were located in the US.


......btw, this is the 'spam trap'
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:31 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzathedrummer View Post
I think the servers were located in the US.
The servers he was using? Ahh, so the message is not to buy hosting services from US companies.
Quote:
......btw, this is the 'spam trap'
Interesting, this is also the nickname for the UK->US extradition treaty in the DOJ.
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:53 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabian View Post
I don't gettit...
Maybe this helps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradi...03#Controversy
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mich View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition_Act_2003#Controversy
John Reid:[14] "The treaty is an important measure in our fight against serious international crime".
Nope, sorry but I still don't get it...
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:04 PM   #10
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Nope, sorry but I still don't get it...
The UK can extradite their citizens (and also non citizens for that matter) to other countries in which the person is suspected to have committed a crime.
End of story.
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:22 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Mich View Post
The UK can extradite their citizens (and also non citizens for that matter) to other countries in which the person is suspected to have committed a crime.
End of story.
The whole thing had to do with "serious international crime", as I quoted. Linking to web-pages that link to copyrighted material is a "serious international crime"? I don't gettit...
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Old 03-16-2012, 05:10 AM   #12
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The whole thing had to do with "serious international crime", as I quoted. Linking to web-pages that link to copyrighted material is a "serious international crime"? I don't gettit...
It has nothing to do with the seriousness of the crime if any other state can prove reasonable suspicion (as in "we think he did it") instead of provide prima facie evidence (as in "we have prove he did it") like it was the case before the new Act, the UK can and must extradite. But it seems you don't want to get it.
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:06 AM   #13
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Here's a full edition of Mickey Mouse's Clubhouse hosted by YouTube for over a year with nearly 37,000,000 views/profit making traffic for Google.

Mickey Mouse's Clubhouse

To say that I am responsible for any sort of crime for posting that link is just ridiculous. Google/YouTube are just as responsible for hosting that as MegaUpload are.

It really does seem like it's one rule for the corporate US and one rule for everybody else. Shame on the UK government(s) (and NZ) for participating in this blatantly imbalanced application of the law.
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:57 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by captain_caveman View Post
Here's a full edition of Mickey Mouse's Clubhouse hosted by YouTube for over a year with nearly 37,000,000 views/profit making traffic for Google.

Mickey Mouse's Clubhouse

To say that I am responsible for any sort of crime for posting that link is just ridiculous. Google/YouTube are just as responsible for hosting that as MegaUpload are.

It really does seem like it's one rule for the corporate US and one rule for everybody else. Shame on the UK government(s) (and NZ) for participating in this blatantly imbalanced application of the law.
Well the fact that I get a "Unfortunately, this video is not available in Germany because it may contain music for which GEMA has not granted the respective music rights." makes me think YouTube has their behind covert in terms of copyrights regarding this video.

However I agree that it is quite ridiculous ... like many other laws, say e.g. the DMCA which makes YouTube not responsible for the video.

Anyway I must personally say I'm much happier with the current laws getting applied to their full extend (which really shows just how bad current laws already are) before new even worse laws are ratified. Because this way people might finally realize just how bad we (or better said people in some jurisdictions) already have it today.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:54 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Mich View Post
But it seems you don't want to get it.
Well, you may find this whole thing reasonable, I don't. Each to his own, I guess...
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:29 PM   #16
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Default USA = hijacked by evil

I really think this is simply to set examples (it happened before), because 'they' fear alternative channels for people to get their, uncensored, sensitive information.

Since Julian Assange & his Wikileaks certain parties have been working double time to give torrent sites and users a hard time.

In my opinion, the USA is making itself extremely unpopular all over the world. I'm Dutch and all my bank account transaction information goes to USA for review. They do this with all Dutch citizens, not just me. And of course, it's a one way street: we don't get USA bank info for review.

Several USA soldiers have come forward and explained they are NOT defending America - they are invading other peoples countries. John Perkins says the same (and more).

I've heard that, according to your constitution, it's ILLEGAL for the Federal Reserve to print USA money. What are they doing about that? Nothing. Several 'acts', like the Patriot Act and the Super Bullshit Congress, are also UNCONSTITUTIONAL. What's Obama doing about it? Or the American justice system? NOTHING. Don't you think that's kinda strange? Same thing for all these high power leaders coming together to discuss important matters in secret (Bilderberg Group), which is, again, I-L-L-E-G-A-L (seems I need to spell it out for some folks out here).

And yet, this British dude has to go to an American prison because he put a that link online....

So now that we put that in perspective, perhaps you'll understand how extremely hypocrite this extradition stuff is, which leads me to my final statement:

In comparison with those real criminal activities (invading other people's countries, illegal laws/acts, fluoride in drinking water, etc.) ANY torrent user AT ALL is a freaking SAINT. A SAINT A TELL YOU!!!

Last edited by megalodon; 03-16-2012 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:38 PM   #17
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Well, you may find this whole thing reasonable, I don't. Each to his own, I guess...
"finding something reasonable" != "getting it"

One implies acceptance the other comprehension.

And just for the record I don't find it reasonable, but I understand what is going on.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:04 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Mich View Post
"finding something reasonable" != "getting it"

One implies acceptance the other comprehension.

And just for the record I don't find it reasonable, but I understand what is going on.
OK... I also understand what's going on. What's reasonable about it, is what I don't get. So I guess we agree after all
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:45 PM   #19
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And whilst the US takes with one hand, it... erm...takes with the other.....

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/0...82F0TF20120316

:speechless at all this shit:
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Old 03-17-2012, 04:39 AM   #20
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Whilst I am hesitant to use such an expression, I suspect that these events and many others like them are the last dying throes of the "old guard".

The so-called powers that be in both government big business and above all holders of copyrighted material see their old business model and the absolute power it conferred on them being eroded away and are apparently willing to do whatever it takes to keep the status quo.

I am fascinated to see how the US Staff Sergeant who supposedly single handedly massacred 16 people and then dragged their bodies into ONE room & incinerated them plays out. Another gassy knoll conspist theory in the making if ever I saw one, but yeah me too.

IF you are going to extradite UK nationals for breaking US laws OUTSIDE the US, how come this soldier isn't being tried IN the country where he supposedly committed his crimes?

I lived and worked in the US for many many years as a legal resident alien, paid my taxes and now receive a partial Social Security pension. But I find the sort of things being done in the name of the US people to be utterly abhorrent of late.

And I for one do not blame Obama - I think he has little or no control over what is happening.
More's the pity.
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Old 04-03-2012, 03:34 PM   #21
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Meh. He (the website) earned $30k a month by being a "conduit" for something he had no legal right to provide. I wom't lose any sleep over it, The ironic thing is that anyone that bright could easily make money without getting into trouble.

And I'm sick of the Google argument. They do actually have things in place to try to protrct some copyrights, joke or not, they're not just being passive. Upload a video with any commercial music and watch what happens, You get a warning and/or it gets stripped out.

What happens when someone - a copyright owner - complains to YouTube? Content gets removed. What happened when the TV networks or movie owners asked this guy to stop linking to their material as they always do as a first step legally? Nothing.

He thought they couldn't touch him. Surprise.

Let's see. Help people get free illegal shit and make money. Get caught, whine about the corrupt system.

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Old 04-04-2012, 11:12 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabian View Post
http://torrentfreak.com/pirating-uk-...the-us-120313/

What he did (link to sites with links to copyrighted material) is apparently legal in the UK, but illegal in the US. So now they send him to US to be sentenced to prison...

I don't gettit...
Isn't that exactly what search engines like Google etc do?
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Old 04-06-2012, 06:27 AM   #23
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And I'm sick of the Google argument. They do actually have things in place to try to protrct some copyrights, joke or not, they're not just being passive. Upload a video with any commercial music and watch what happens, You get a warning and/or it gets stripped out.

What happens when someone - a copyright owner - complains to YouTube? Content gets removed.
Same with Megaupload... they even gave content creators direct server access with file deletion priviledges. They also removed on request.

Goose/gander.
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:07 AM   #24
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So, if I say something stupid about something in Norway, should I be sent to Iran and be judged by their laws?
I don't get it.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:09 AM   #25
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Same with Megaupload... they even gave content creators direct server access with file deletion priviledges. They also removed on request.
That might well be true. However that was never the point the indictment makes other claims. Here are the highlights:

* Persons indicted have "instructed individual users how to locate links to infringing content on the Mega Sites ... [and] ... have also shared with each other comments from Mega Site users demonstrating that they have used or are attempting to use the Mega Sites to get infringing copies of copyrighted content."

* Persons indicted, unlike the public, are not reliant upon links to stored files, but can search the internal database directly. It is claimed they have "searched the internal database for their associates and themselves so that they may directly access copyright-infringing content".

* A comprehensive takedown method is in use to identify child pornography, but not deployed to remove infringing content.

* Infringing users did not have their accounts terminated, and the defendants "made no significant effort to identify users who were using the Mega Sites or services to infringe copyrights, to prevent the uploading of infringing copies of copyrighted materials, or to identify infringing copies of copyrighted works"

* Defendants explicitly discussed evasion and infringement issues, including an attempt to copy and upload the entire content of YouTube.

Also:
The superseding indictment cited the case of one alleged infringer referred identified only as "VV."

Over six years, VV had uploaded nearly 17,000 files to Megavideo.com, which resulted in more than 334 million views, it said. Though VV had been the subject of numerous takedown e-mails, none of those files had been deleted, it said.

etc.

EDIT:
http://www.digitaltrends.com/web/doj...fringer-no-1/:

"As part of the wire fraud charges, there is additional information regarding the alleged steps to falsely represent to rights holders that infringing content had been removed, when it was never removed."

"The Mega Conspiracy created a computer system architecture which kept its most frequently downloaded files in memory (rather than in storage) on a number of dedicated high-end servers. Most of the files on these servers were infringing copies of copyrighted works."

... seriously what they claim they do and what they actually did are two very distinct things. Ask any good mafiosi what he does and he will tell you: "Pizza!"
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:45 AM   #26
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Think 1984 ( George Orwell's book) . The system creates a way out, a way that promises freedom but that in fact is used to pin down all activity againstthe system. The Internet works in two directions. You're allowed to come into the open, but that does make you visible.

This said: Personally I think that grabbing things does not add to the quality of one's life. I prefer to use what I have paid for.
But I can well understand that publicity (you really *neeeed* this and that to be happy and make lots of money...) is too strong for many so they grab what they can. And then get punished for not being able to cope with a system that creates a need but takes away the means to satisfy that need.
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:41 PM   #27
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"And then get punished for not being able to cope with a system that creates a need but takes away the means to satisfy that need."

In my part of the world movies, music, and tv shows are not a need.....
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Old 07-10-2012, 04:18 AM   #28
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He lives in the UK, so he needs to live by UK laws. It should be as simple as that. What if let's say Yemen makes a new law that says people can't have dogs as pets, and then people from all over the world are taken to Yemen jail. That doesn't make an sense at all, however it's not too far off from what's happening here.
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:26 AM   #29
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He lives in the UK, so he needs to live by UK laws. It should be as simple as that.
It is.

In case you missed it the UK law has a clause where it can extradite their own citizens for whatever the UK judicial system finds appropriate.

Regarding the pet thing it is off by one not so little detail, namely Jurisdiction.

If Yemen made pets illegal. You could still have pets in countries (jurisdictions) where pets are legal. However having a pet in Yemen would still be illegal. Now this case here would be the equivalence of having a bet in Yemen while not actually having a physical presence in Yemen ... so let's stop the stupid analogies.

The real problem here is the UK law, namely the Extradition Act 2003, which de facto makes US law UK law and allows the US to extradite any UK citizen without prima facie evidence but only reasonable suspicion.

So yes it is as simple as that UK laws a screwed.
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:56 PM   #30
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The USA is Oceania. The UK is Airstrip One. When current events are viewed in this context, much makes sense. Just imagine what happened in the 20 years or so leading up to the beginning of the novel, and don't get hung up on specific dates/years.
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Old 09-15-2012, 12:07 AM   #31
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As for pirating...

3 parties involved in the music business:

1) Software developers who make what we need to make music
2) Us, music producers/artists
3) Consumers

Consumers pirate our work relentlessly so that it is well-nigh impossible to make a decent living just by selling our product. It is so bad that it is considered passe to BUY music at all.

Software developers are totally protected against us doing to them what the consumers do to us, by law.

The only people harmed by piracy is US. We alone bear the costs of the consumers piracy without being able to pass on any of those costs to the software developers we buy from.

Software developers need to recognize that they are part of the music industry too, and so need to share the loss-of-sale burdens that we have. If they don't share these costs, we eventually will all go out of business except for the top 100 or so people in the industry. That will cause the software developers to go out of business too, eventually.

All in all, the whole situation is incredibly unfair and ridiculous.
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Old 09-16-2012, 09:21 AM   #32
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If someone does something in the UK that doesn't break UK law then that is that.
Not quite - the UK Extradition Act 2003 allows UK citizens to be extradicted to the United States for crimes committed under US law.

Making US copyright protected content available for download without permission from the coyright owners, is illegal under the US copyright act. So, technically, it is a violation of US law, for which Richard O'Dwyer can be extradicted legally.

That said, I think this is a good example of the MPAA and Hollywood overreaching and using a sledge hammer to kill a mosquitoe. I mean, we're not talking about a massive internal fraud scheme where millions of $ were milked from US investors, or a massive $$ making copyright piracy operation like megaupload. This is just a 24 year old college kid who, although he did make money from his website, used it to treat his college pals to free movies (does someone realize the irony of this btw?).

The UK Extradiction Act is also very unbalanced: there is very little in the way of protection for people like Mr. O'Dwyer who will face huge legal expenses in his US lawsuit.

That memo from the MPAA about how to manage the PR fallout is telltale -- this is a public relations disaster, and they have themselves to thank for it.

Why couldn't they just shut down the website, fine him one Pound by way of slap on the wrist, as a learning lesson, and leave it at that?
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