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Old 08-11-2017, 04:26 PM   #1
olilarkin
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Default removing RTAS, updating minimum OSes

I am thinking about removing RTAS support from WDL-OL and setting minimum OS to macOS 10.7 and Windows 7. Projects for visual studio 2017 and Xcode8+. This means we can move to c++11.

comments please!
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Old 08-11-2017, 06:01 PM   #2
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RTAS is going
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:14 PM   #3
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Why remove RTAS? Is it a dead format now? Is AAX replacing it?
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Old 08-11-2017, 11:38 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by olilarkin View Post
I am thinking about removing RTAS support from WDL-OL and setting minimum OS to macOS 10.7 and Windows 7. Projects for visual studio 2017 and Xcode8+. This means we can move to c++11.

comments please!
Most of your suggestions are fine with me but I hope that you stay with the Xcode 8 version requirement on the last version that is supporting El Capitan (instead of Sierra) because older systems can't be updated to Sierra (what is a shame that Apple decided so). I have never compiled RTAS, and my first steps were to set the projects to 10.7+ and c11.
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Old 08-12-2017, 05:48 AM   #5
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Why remove RTAS? Is it a dead format now? Is AAX replacing it?
Pro Tools 10 was the last version to support RTAS, PT is now at 12.8, so it is a dead format, and many vendors dropped support for it a while back. I've already removed the code from my fork of WDL-OL, same for 32bit support which removes all the annoying if/else for OSX Carbon code.
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Old 08-12-2017, 09:29 AM   #6
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I think that c++11 is a must, thought I still haven't switch to it in my fork.

RTAS should go, but can we remove 32bit on mac too? I am building universal binaries only on mac and nobody complained so far...

What is very confusing to me if this thing with setting target os vs using older sdk. As far as I understand we can use latest sdk and target 10.7 without a problem. Right? Can we be safe doing that?
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Old 08-16-2017, 07:54 AM   #7
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I always am sitting on the fence about RTAS. I still provide it and once in a while someone thanks me for doing it, but it would be nice to be able to have my dev system up to date.

If RTAS goes, I wouldn't be sad.
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Old 08-16-2017, 11:02 AM   #8
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I develop for Line 6. Their requirements to me for the past two years are Mac OS X 10.8, Windows 7, 64-bit only (no RTAS). My branch requires c++11 (mainly to support arbitrary parameter control curves in an elegant manner, but I'm just not going to code in pre '11 anymore in general).
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Old 08-16-2017, 02:43 PM   #9
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Thanks for your comments everyone. As you can see I have pretty much decided already to get rid of rtas :-) . Youlean - we should be okay to use the latest Mac SDK and target 10.7, although I think lib C++ requires 10.9 . personally I don't think it is yet time to get rid of 32 bit support on OS X, although I would really like to. I haven't tried it yet but 10.13 /Xcode 9 May finally remove carbon and audio unit version 2 /component manager, which means there might be some work to do
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Old 08-16-2017, 07:28 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by olilarkin View Post
Thanks for your comments everyone. As you can see I have pretty much decided already to get rid of rtas :-) . Youlean - we should be okay to use the latest Mac SDK and target 10.7, although I think lib C++ requires 10.9 . personally I don't think it is yet time to get rid of 32 bit support on OS X, although I would really like to. I haven't tried it yet but 10.13 /Xcode 9 May finally remove carbon and audio unit version 2 /component manager, which means there might be some work to do
libc++ requires Mac OS X 10.7 or later, according to multiple references on web. However, I know the warning "clang: warning: libstdc++ is deprecated; move to libc++ with a minimum deployment target of OS X 10.9". I can't reconcile that difference at the moment. But I target 10.8, and libc++ works fine for me...

Add:

https://developer.apple.com/library/...roduction.html

"Projects created using this Xcode release use the new libc++ implementation of the standard C++ library. The libc++ library is available only on iOS 5.0 and later and OS X 10.7 and later."

Last edited by earlevel; 08-16-2017 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 08-19-2017, 10:25 AM   #11
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I've started removing RTAS support lately mainly because PT10 don't work anymore on latest osx and I don't have access to 10.6 system anymore and this makes impossible to offer support for RTAS when a problem arises.

Regarding the minimum version, I'm still building everything against 10.6 and windows XP for two reasons:

1. if ain't broke don't fix it
2. some PT users on mac I have have asked for 10.6 support, i have a couple that also asked for PPC support O_O

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Old 08-19-2017, 02:15 PM   #12
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I've started removing RTAS support lately mainly because PT10 don't work anymore on latest osx and I don't have access to 10.6 system anymore and this makes impossible to offer support for RTAS when a problem arises.

Regarding the minimum version, I'm still building everything against 10.6 and windows XP for two reasons:

1. if ain't broke don't fix it
2. some PT users on mac I have have asked for 10.6 support, i have a couple that also asked for PPC support O_O

Saverio
Audio units entry point method changed in 10.7 (a lot of things changed in 10.7 that make 10.7 and forward "modern" and 10.6 "legacy"). It's not just an arbitrary choice to choose 10.7 over 10.6.

As long as your base SDK is 10.7 or later, a macro takes care of support for 10.6 on the audio unit entry, but the idea is that 10.6, despite being 64-bit, is at a disadvantage and subject to eroding support beyond just the number of years (six years since the final 10.6 update).

Last edited by earlevel; 08-19-2017 at 02:20 PM.
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Old 08-19-2017, 04:23 PM   #13
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has anyone implemented the new au entry point for iplug yet? think the old one might be going in high sierra
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Old 08-20-2017, 01:19 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by olilarkin View Post
has anyone implemented the new au entry point for iplug yet? think the old one might be going in high sierra
Not me, it's in my task list but I'm always late on my schedule 😀
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Old 08-20-2017, 01:22 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by earlevel View Post
Audio units entry point method changed in 10.7 (a lot of things changed in 10.7 that make 10.7 and forward "modern" and 10.6 "legacy"). It's not just an arbitrary choice to choose 10.7 over 10.6.

As long as your base SDK is 10.7 or later, a macro takes care of support for 10.6 on the audio unit entry, but the idea is that 10.6, despite being 64-bit, is at a disadvantage and subject to eroding support beyond just the number of years (six years since the final 10.6 update).
I know that bu nobody is going to be left behind by my support as long as I'm able to do it
BTW I have the 10.6 ask and still build with that.
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Old 08-20-2017, 07:49 AM   #16
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Thanks earlevel and oli.

Are you sure about high siera removing AU v2? I think I have read somewhere that Apple removed warning about AU V2 because nobody was adopting V3. Also here u-he said that there is some kind of build in wrapper for V3...

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewt...?f=33&t=482362
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Old 08-20-2017, 09:39 AM   #17
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Not removing au v2 but removing component manager
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Old 08-21-2017, 01:29 AM   #18
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Not removing au v2 but removing component manager
Yep wdl-ol doesn't even use v2

Btw I have a few users stuck with logic 9.1 does au v2 works there?
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Old 08-25-2017, 01:19 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by olilarkin View Post
I am thinking about removing RTAS support from WDL-OL and setting minimum OS to macOS 10.7 and Windows 7. Projects for visual studio 2017 and Xcode8+. This means we can move to c++11.

comments please!
Fully agree!
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