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Old 08-29-2017, 05:22 AM   #1
1eqinfinity
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Default Visual Studio for Mac

Hi guys,

did anyone succeed in building AU in VS for Mac?
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Old 08-29-2017, 05:59 AM   #2
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No, because Visual Studio for mac does not support c++.
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Old 08-29-2017, 06:14 AM   #3
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No, because Visual Studio for mac does not support c++.
...You got to be kidding me.
I thought it wasn't mentioned because it's obviously a must have.
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Old 08-29-2017, 06:56 AM   #4
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...You got to be kidding me.
I thought it wasn't mentioned because it's obviously a must have.
Well it is not..
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Old 08-29-2017, 07:24 AM   #5
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That's a pity. After VS15 Xcode feels very unintuitive.
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Old 08-29-2017, 10:57 AM   #6
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It helps to think about Microsoft's motivation to support Mac development.

Are they nice guys? No, MicroSoft has never been nice.

Do they intend to make money off the development system? No, they can't compete with Apple giving theirs away.

Do they want to promote open, industry standards like c++, java, javascript? That would fall under the "nice guy" category.

Do they want to promote .net to create more dependency on MicroSoft? and mobile apps for Windows phones? Now we're getting somewhere...
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Old 08-29-2017, 11:41 PM   #7
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Haha, true However, Apple has never been nice too. So you never know what to expect from the two not-nice giants. Endless Yin and Yang of assholes with great products.
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Old 08-30-2017, 09:59 AM   #8
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Haha, true However, Apple has never been nice too. So you never know what to expect from the two not-nice giants. Endless Yin and Yang of assholes with great products.
Right, but that's my point. You can't assume "nice". It's about motivation. Apple has motivation to support Mac—you'd have to be skeptical if they announced Xcode for Windows.

But, we know that wouldn't happen. Microsoft has been the one over the years that has proven to be the clever one in devising ways to poison the well for competitors. Apple likes to lock you in, Microsoft likes to modify the game to make competitors fail, including subverting open standards. When MS embraces an open standard like Java, it's because they want to modify it till it's incompatible with everyone else's and assume the market by default due to their size (in that case they were eventually chased off by Sun, and created C# instead). They tried to own the html browser market before that by "enhancing" html until websites wouldn't work with other browsers, but eventually lost that battle too. Apple has been a bit better about open standards.
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Old 08-30-2017, 09:15 PM   #9
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When MS embraces an open standard like Java, it's because they want to modify it till it's incompatible with everyone else's
That's an interesting way to think about their strategy. Never heard of Java and html stories before btw. And html bit is very funny because Internet Explorer is the most ridiculous piece of software I have ever encountered in this universe.
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Old 08-31-2017, 12:43 AM   #10
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Visual Studio Code is available for Mac and has C++, Git and other good extensions. It's not the full-featured IDE, but may be useful for editing anyway.
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:54 AM   #11
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That's an interesting way to think about their strategy. Never heard of Java and html stories before btw. And html bit is very funny because Internet Explorer is the most ridiculous piece of software I have ever encountered in this universe.
Ah, you are young then.

Microsoft was late to the internet, and had to chase Netscape. They came out with IE, and extended the html with special features—they were enticing features, but of course if you use them, only user with IE can use your site correctly. To folks that think there is no need for any other OS that Windows, that works. Image if Apple or Google alone came out with html5—if they got enough people to use the html5 video features, they would dominate the browser market.

As part of that strategy, Microsoft extended Java. Think about that—an relatively open language, but if you can change it to the point where people must you your version, incompatible with others, then you essentially taken a platform that belongs to everyone and taken it proprietary. Sun Microsystems, originator of Java, took Microsoft to court, and Microsoft had to leave the Java business—they developed C# and .net.

One of the most annoying things, to me, Microsoft ever did: In the early days of Mac, there were few development languages. Microsoft ported MS BASIC to the Mac. I owned it, it really sucked. Meanwhile, Apple was developing an amazing BASIC—MacBasic. Much more part of the new GUI environment, it was incrementally compiled on the fly, had a built-in debugger, worked with Mac features, looked awesome—it had keyword highlighting, automation-indenting, etc. It made MS BASIC look pitiful, there would be absolutely no reason to buy that pos. it came time to renew the license for Applesoft BASIC, for the Apple II. The II was in its final days, but the plug couldn't be pulled yet. Microsoft said, we'll renew that license if you throw in MacBasic. Microsoft acquire it, shelved it, then let their own MS BASIC go away.
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:58 AM   #12
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Microsoft was late to the internet, and had to chase Netscape. They came out with IE, and extended the html with special features—they were enticing features, but of course if you use them, only user with IE can use your site correctly.
To be fair the internet was new and standards were loose then so most everyone was doing non-standard stuff trying to own the market (hoping they would gain enough share that their extension of the language would become part of the standard), including netscape such as their god awful layer tag - I tired of dealing with such and I eventually stopped supporting netscape altogether. Which turned out to be a wise choice looking back.
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Old 08-31-2017, 03:15 PM   #13
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I think C++ on the OSX would be too Apple-ish for MS to support.

On the other hand, they open sourced .NET Core and that runs excellently on Linux, OSX and Windows. That is highly supported on OSX of course.

MS maybe not nice, but at least they're open source and are doing good things for the community at large (Typescript e.g.)

Well, MS haters will be MS haters I guess, but sometimes it's good to reset your defaults (not only in your favorite app, also your mind can use that )
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Old 08-31-2017, 03:59 PM   #14
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I think C++ on the OSX would be too Apple-ish for MS to support.
Though Apple hasn't been a C++ house in decades (in fact, their use of C++ was short-lived—it was object Pascal for the earlier Mac development). It's simply a popular language, not their preference.

Internet Explorer was derived from Spyglass Mosaic. I'm not saying it was terrible that IE killed Netscape (though Netscape ultimately helped in IE's demise via Mozilla/Firefox). But the difference was that IE was a Windows-only application (yeah, there was a Mac IE, but MS always wounds its Mac products, even when they were a Mac product first, like Excel)—the inter-dependence of IE and webpages was a play to kill the democratization of the internet. You were at a distinct disadvantage if you owner a Mac or unix box. Maybe it would have worked better if IE didn't mostly suck for its whole history, and some of their work caused security, giving some reason for others to do better. Ultimately, the DOJ got involved and helped bust the lock IE had. Their market share 10-12 years ago was about 95%.
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:59 PM   #15
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I'm relatively young, but I've seen enough low behaviour from both sides so that I can't be a hater of only one of them
All this could be a source for a new multiseasonal series.
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Old 09-01-2017, 02:21 PM   #16
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Over the course of personal computer development, Microsoft most easily deserves the moniker "the evil empire" (I remember in the early days of dial-in—long before internet—using a bbs system that had macro capabilities. One of the built-in macros was to substitute "the evil empire" when you typed "Microsoft"). And despite dominating, their innovation was always poor. (Late to the internet, late to smartphones, late to windowed operating systems...but always focus on putting the others out of business and becoming the owner) It's annoying when people refer to Bill Gates as a "software genius"—he was a marketing genius. He wrote a tiny BASIC for The Altair 8800. After that most everything was acquired (MS-DOS, IE, Excel...) and developed by their programmers.

Because IBM didn't think there was much of a market for PCs when they made their first one, they—incredibly—agreed to let Microsoft maintain control of MS-DOS, which Gates had just bought for $50k from its original developer, as well as pay them about 10x that to use it. It was initially the only game in town, which gave MS clout. Later, they were able to crush their superior competition (Microsoft is not a driver of innovation—they add features and improve things only when forced to) by forcing computer vendors to pay for MS-DOS whether the enduser wanted it or not. Having already paid for MS-DOS users were unlikely to shell out immediately for a second OS, superior or not. There were a few attempts, but everyone else went out of business. You may view Apple as annoying today, but they don't have the long history of crushing competition and innovation like Microsoft.

I'm just yakking about the past, for a little color. The industry is different now, because it's mature. If you don't like MS, you can run unix with a fancy GUI (ubuntu, etc.). The internet and time has a changed a lot of things, especially access to open source.

For that matter, Google is perhaps becoming the evil empire. I'm not a hater there either, and I like many things Google does. But some of it is pretty dam creepy, including modifications to the search for company-favored politicians and goals.
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Old 09-01-2017, 09:26 PM   #17
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In every big company sooner or later appear some brilliant people with really good ideas. And every major player does good things. But compared to their resources these good things take up only a small fraction of it. That's the natural way I guess. Don't even start me on Google I'll just say that I prefer having my phone rooted
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