Old 09-11-2017, 10:40 PM   #1
paspallum
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Default Rendering Song makes 'analog' drum hits out of time

Hi
I'm working on a song project - its 32 bit, 44.1
The song is less than 3 minutes and has under 24 tracks
It plays perfectly in Reaper, but when rendering, in the last third of the song, two snare hits are very out of time
I should say here - its all been recorded with mics - not a single VSTi or drum sample.
I tried rendering offline, online, fast offline etc - made no difference - the out of sync drum hits were in exactly the same place every time
I also tried freezing my Drum Bus and the freeze came in out of sync on the same two snare hits.
I managed to get the track rendered out with a work-a-round I thought up.
I set the snap to grid on (even though the song wasn't recorded to a click)
selected the 2nd half of the song, bounced that down (render selected part)
Then did the same with the beginning of the song from the same grid point
The 2nd half was now fine (its was 45 second long) I joined then seamlessly in Wavelab and all was good
But I don't want to do this every time I render a mix!
Any ideas anyone?
anyone had this issue?
Is there a fix?
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Old 09-12-2017, 06:17 AM   #2
serr
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This sounds like a challenge.

Try rendering that drum track again with all plugins disabled. See if we can pin the blame on a crashing plugin. (It's almost got to be that...)

The part where you had to go to another DAW to just to edit the halves together though... So it still screwed it up even trying to edit the two halves together in Reaper?! Did you check the box in the render window to import the renders? And are you saying that when you glued/rendered them together that the offset came up again in the 2nd half?

Can you try rendering a single track of something? Make a new project. Drag an audio file in. Render it (just to duplicate it).

Try to approach the thing one track at a time.

Can you post the .rpp file?

(I want to write a little aside about the unrelated Dynamic Split function and the bug in it that this reminds me of but I'll hold that thought for now.)

It's got to be one of the plugins...
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Last edited by serr; 09-12-2017 at 06:28 AM.
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:44 PM   #3
paspallum
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Default Thanks serr

Serr
thanks for your reply
I think you got most of it......... maybe my explanation wasn't too good

I did a freeze on the drum bus (as it was the snare drum that was going out of time in the last 40 seconds) when the bus froze - the issue was now in Reaper
as I'd mentioned. normally that bar (with the offending two out of time snare hits) played perfectly from reaper - only the rendered stereo bounces had issues
So.. it could very well be a plugin on the drum bus
I'll try bouncing today with the drum bus plugins off

When i 'stitched' the two halves of the song together in WAVELAVB (from rendering the front and back half of the song separately - it was PERFECT
So.... when I selected the 2nd half of this 3 minute song and rendered that out as a stereo file, the issue with the out of time snare hit was NOT present
EVERYTHING was perfectly in time - but on the full file rendered in one go.... glitches!
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:30 PM   #4
paspallum
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Default FIXED

Serr
Yes - with your help i fixed the issue
It was a plugin on my drum buss
A De-Esser
Crazy how a plugin can make 2 hits out of 200 out of time!
Thanks
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:34 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paspallum View Post
Crazy how a plugin can make 2 hits out of 200 out of time!
Any plugin is supposed to notify the DAW about the latency it introduces to the audio stream. The DAW then will delay all parallel audio streams accordingly. (AFAIR you can disable this in Reaper, but I suppose you did not do that.)

If that does not work correctly supposedly the plugin is done carelessly.

-Michael
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:55 AM   #6
serr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paspallum View Post
Serr
Yes - with your help i fixed the issue
It was a plugin on my drum buss
A De-Esser
Crazy how a plugin can make 2 hits out of 200 out of time!
Thanks
Paspallum
Great news!

This is an interesting crash scenario though. The bit where the crash (this must be some kind of PDC crash) is dependent on the length of the render.

This is the exact same scenario as the dynamic split bug!
see here: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=137729

Perhaps there's a clue to a PDC bug in all this?


I have a followup question about the editing the two renders back together though (the workaround done before the crashing plugin was discovered).

You rendered the song in 2 halves.
You used a time selection render and had the box checked to import the render to a new track right? So you ran both renders, dragged one into the other's track and then glued/rendered them to put them back together.

Now at this point you discover that the edited together file you just made has the out of time issue? (Even though by itself the 2nd half render sounded fine?) So you had to turn to Wavlab to do that edit?

Is that right?

What I'm getting at is that it sounds like just having that plugin in the project screwed things up. It didn't have to even be on the track that gets screwed up if that scenario is correct.

Or...
Did none of that happen and the reason you edited the two halves together with Wavlab was because you lost trust in Reaper at that point? ie. You never tried to make that edit in Reaper first?


Forgive my bluntness but we all know there has been a PDC related bug lurking in Reaper for a good while now. Could this be a clue that helps uncover it?

I hope the devs take a look at both this and the Dynamic Split issue together.
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