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Old 09-01-2017, 10:27 AM   #1
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Default Music Video - mixed by me, mastered by bladerunner

Just wanted to share this with you guys and girls. The music was tracked and mixed by myself in Reaper. @bladerunner did the mastering. I know he uses Reaper, but I'll let him comment if he wants as to what he did/used for mastering.

No question this time, I'm just happy this turned out as well as it did. This is my first Reaper project that I'm truly proud of.

Oh, in the brown guy in the video

https://youtu.be/VsJxFZeFoOE

Thanks for all the questions you guys have answered for me. I still got a lot of learning to do, but it's getting there.
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Old 09-01-2017, 11:00 AM   #2
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Hi mykrobinson.
This is not my preferred genre at all but it sounded great and absolutely felt a pro job with the visuals. Well done to you, the band and bladerunner.
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Old 09-01-2017, 11:04 AM   #3
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Hi mykrobinson.
This is not my preferred genre at all but it sounded great and absolutely felt a pro job with the visuals. Well done to you, the band and bladerunner.
Thank you
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Old 09-01-2017, 11:35 AM   #4
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I agree, the production sounds and looks good to me. I don't have any criticism to offer on that side. Instruments are well played, well recorded, and well mixed, to my ears anyway.

Contentwise it doesn't do much for me, but that's much more subjective, obviously. doesn't hit my headbang nerve. I didn't listen to the lyrics enough to know if he's agreeing with conspiracy theorists, criticizing them, or taking a neutral stance, but the video makes me lean towards the first one, which is, erm, challenging for me. Anyway. To paraphrase Mike Muir, just because I don't understand it, don't mean it ain't no good.
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Old 09-01-2017, 11:53 AM   #5
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Well done, Myk! That bass guitar sounds incredible! Tell me about it?
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Old 09-01-2017, 02:23 PM   #6
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Well done, Myk! That bass guitar sounds incredible! Tell me about it?
Hah! The bass is a poorly set up Jackson 4 string. I'll grab some screen shots of my signal chain. I ran the bass DI, sent that to another track through an amp sim aond some other treatments, and had both of those in a folder with some compression and EQ on the folder, best I recall. Details alter.

Thanks
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Old 09-01-2017, 02:26 PM   #7
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I agree, the production sounds and looks good to me. I don't have any criticism to offer on that side. Instruments are well played, well recorded, and well mixed, to my ears anyway.

Contentwise it doesn't do much for me, but that's much more subjective, obviously. doesn't hit my headbang nerve. I didn't listen to the lyrics enough to know if he's agreeing with conspiracy theorists, criticizing them, or taking a neutral stance, but the video makes me lean towards the first one, which is, erm, challenging for me. Anyway. To paraphrase Mike Muir, just because I don't understand it, don't mean it ain't no good.
It's all good, and thank you for the comments The lyrics are in the video description, but to summarize, on the surface, the song is just random babble about aliens, government coverups, new world order, that sort of thing. But underneath, it is about how people will cling to and whole heartedly believe dang near everything and anything on social media and the news media, yet refuse to even consider the possibility of God.

We are obviously not a "praise and worship" band, and our songs are just stories, but me as the primary writer, who I am will always come out in the songs in some form or fashion.
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Old 09-01-2017, 09:00 PM   #8
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Hah! The bass is a poorly set up Jackson 4 string. I'll grab some screen shots of my signal chain. I ran the bass DI, sent that to another track through an amp sim aond some other treatments, and had both of those in a folder with some compression and EQ on the folder, best I recall. Details alter.

Thanks
Look forward to it! Thanks! If my bass sounded like that I'd be in heaven. That's why I'm getting the Standard P Bass. But that tone you got, at least to me, is freakin' great!
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Old 09-02-2017, 03:40 AM   #9
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refuse to even consider the possibility of
The possibilities are infinite- multidimensional!

Yep-this is lively-- it's creating an excitement vibe here=)
I think the tones and lyrics suit this moment in history well-the video works hand in hand--very smart work peoples!!
Enjoyed it.Ty.
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Old 09-02-2017, 06:29 AM   #10
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Look forward to it! Thanks! If my bass sounded like that I'd be in heaven. That's why I'm getting the Standard P Bass. But that tone you got, at least to me, is freakin' great!
Hopefully you didn't see the post i previously made with bad information in it

anyways, here is a rough idea of my signal chain for the bass. As I said before, I have a folder with some processing on it, a DI track with amp/cab sim, and a parallel comp track the primary bass track is routed to. Tracks 2 & 3 are inside of the folder, which is track 1

https://i.imgur.com/N9tsY5b.png

Hope that helps a little. I don't honestly know exactly what i am doing. i watch a lot of tutorials and read a lot, and try to apply what i have learned.
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Old 09-02-2017, 12:05 PM   #11
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Wow, that seems like a lot of processing to me but the end result sounds great! Thanks!
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Old 09-02-2017, 02:26 PM   #12
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Wow, that seems like a lot of processing to me but the end result sounds great! Thanks!
Not really though. If you look at the primary bass track, I compressed the signal going in first. My bass player is actually a guitarist, so he doesn't have the right hand technique of a proper bass player. This helps smooth out his signal before it hits the second thing in the chain, which is a bass amp sim.

The third thing is a cabinet impulse response loader, because the virtual amp sounds better through a virtual cabinet.

And the fourth thing is another compressor to round out the overall tone.

So essentially I have just created something similar to a real rig.

The parallel processing on track three was to give me a separate control for sib frequencies and give the song more control over the bottom end.

The compression on the folder was to glue the other two tracks together better.

I assume this is fairly standard, but somebody with more experience may say what I did was stupid 😂
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Old 09-03-2017, 12:43 PM   #13
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Yeah, I suppose you're right. I do love the sound you ended up with. Nice job all around!
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Old 09-03-2017, 03:55 PM   #14
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Yeah, I suppose you're right. I do love the sound you ended up with. Nice job all around!
Thank you!
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Old 09-03-2017, 09:13 PM   #15
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Great mix, great guitar tones.
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Old 09-03-2017, 10:44 PM   #16
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My bass player is actually a guitarist, so he doesn't have the right hand technique of a proper bass player.
First thing I noticed was those wide picking swings - hope he didn't do them in studio, is it even possible to mute all the stray noises with playing like that? Half of time I spent bass tracking is desperate attempts at muting not used strings.

But it does sound good. Great, even. I'm endlessly amazed how big and wide things can sound if you know what you're doing. I think my stuff sounds decent, then I hear productions like this. And we amateurs don't even have excuse that the equipment is shit if you can do stuff like this on a bunch of freebie plugs.
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Old 09-04-2017, 04:56 AM   #17
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First thing I noticed was those wide picking swings - hope he didn't do them in studio, is it even possible to mute all the stray noises with playing like that? Half of time I spent bass tracking is desperate attempts at muting not used strings.

But it does sound good. Great, even. I'm endlessly amazed how big and wide things can sound if you know what you're doing. I think my stuff sounds decent, then I hear productions like this. And we amateurs don't even have excuse that the equipment is shit if you can do stuff like this on a bunch of freebie plugs.
Thank you!

Studio work is drastically different from filming and even live performance. The director needed exaggerated movements so that we would be "larger than life" on video. We didn't have to actually please while filming. The produced song was playing on loudspeakers while we fake playing.

So accuracy was not a factor during filming as much as it was during tracking the song.

That said, we still get pretty rowdy on stage, but accuracy is also important for live performance. I guess live is more of a happy medium between filming performance and tracking performance.

But I digress. Thank you very much for the kind words! I hope to be able to reproduce this type of work. I want to build consistency instead of coming up with a gem like this on occasion with a bunch of stinkers in between 😂
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Old 09-04-2017, 05:00 AM   #18
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Great mix, great guitar tones.
Thank you! The guitars were tracked using free vst plugins. Jesse's track was done with Ignite's Emissary amp and NadIR impulse response loader using some Marshall 1960A with greenbacks response files.

My guitar parts (more crunchy and melodic) used the now ancient LePou Legion amp sim and Ignite's NadIR cabinet loader. I think I used a tube screamer type of plugin as well as a clean boost in front of the amp.

Last edited by mykrobinson; 09-04-2017 at 05:01 AM. Reason: Typos
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Old 09-04-2017, 05:43 AM   #19
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Looks and sounds like a professional product, well done to all involved!

The bass is living a bit high up in the frequency spectrum for me, but that's perhaps a taste thing... or my monitoring setup; I can hear a resonance in the bass somewhere around 120-220Hz range that is a bit overpowering (we're talking subtleties here, nothing that would ruin listening to the song!). I do like deep bass with few low mids though, which isn't great for small speaker translation. Great job at clamping it down if it was as unevenly played as you suggest though, the dynamics are nice and solid.

Guitars sound great. I'd never guess they were sims. Funny how Ignite make some of the best amp sims out there, and give them away for free!

Anyway, all this production would be nothing without the song you wrote. I really like the chord sequence, it's got lots of energy that was well translated by the band.

Good work!
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Old 09-04-2017, 06:05 AM   #20
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Looks and sounds like a professional product, well done to all involved!

The bass is living a bit high up in the frequency spectrum for me, but that's perhaps a taste thing... or my monitoring setup; I can hear a resonance in the bass somewhere around 120-220Hz range that is a bit overpowering (we're talking subtleties here, nothing that would ruin listening to the song!). I do like deep bass with few low mids though, which isn't great for small speaker translation. Great job at clamping it down if it was as unevenly played as you suggest though, the dynamics are nice and solid.

Guitars sound great. I'd never guess they were sims. Funny how Ignite make some of the best amp sims out there, and give them away for free!

Anyway, all this production would be nothing without the song you wrote. I really like the chord sequence, it's got lots of energy that was well translated by the band.

Good work!
Thank you! All these kind words are making a brown man blush and believe he can actually do this stuff. Quite encouraging
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Old 09-04-2017, 06:09 AM   #21
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That seems unfortunately so true...

Well done! Great song! Good sound!

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Just wanted to share this with you guys and girls. The music was tracked and mixed by myself in Reaper. @bladerunner did the mastering. I know he uses Reaper, but I'll let him comment if he wants as to what he did/used for mastering.

No question this time, I'm just happy this turned out as well as it did. This is my first Reaper project that I'm truly proud of.

Oh, in the brown guy in the video

https://youtu.be/VsJxFZeFoOE

Thanks for all the questions you guys have answered for me. I still got a lot of learning to do, but it's getting there.
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Old 09-04-2017, 06:10 AM   #22
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Oh, there is a small amount of distortion on the bass, I used it to help accentuate the attack of the bass and allow the movements to cut through better. I "think" it worked for that purpose, but may be the high frequencies you're hearing.

I'm still studying techniques for getting bass to cut through.

It's an interesting topic. If you listen to older music, you can clearly hear every instrument, and the songs are typically well mixed without overdoing it in any frequencies. For example, bass in older music doesn't typically drive the subs like modern music, but that's fine because you can still hear what you need.

I want to go for a balanced sound without it sounding over produced and keep as much dynamics as I can. Probably sounds counterproductive for this genre of music, but I my opinion, most modern rock/metal and post hardcore type music is so polished that it has lost the soul of the music.

I like a raw but clean sound, if that makes sense, to try to retain the integrity and energy of the song while sounding better than a typical garage recording.
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Old 09-04-2017, 06:55 AM   #23
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I want to go for a balanced sound without it sounding over produced and keep as much dynamics as I can. Probably sounds counterproductive for this genre of music, but I my opinion, most modern rock/metal and post hardcore type music is so polished that it has lost the soul of the music.
I agree 100%.

Though I often think that's because I'm a grumpy old man who remembers "when metal was good".
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Old 09-04-2017, 07:54 AM   #24
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Default Some thoughts..

I hope you don't mind my thoughts ... - but I think there is a little thing that - even in Metal(Nu)- should be avoided in these days of EBU and LUFS and Loudness and Streaming Services who are the cash-cows of the big companies now (have you seen the results of Universal regarding streaming income?)

I've attached a screenshot of (in my opinion) the best analyzer around..

The overall curve compared to MetalNu is just great (also in my ears :-)

DR 7 is quite okay for your genre I think, as I'm not really active in that Metal genre...

The Pan - Balance (see 2-8k vs. 300-400) - not sure if you intended it to be like that? ..

And one thing that I really don't know - is it a special feature of the Metal genre still in these days that the compressed audio is peaking at 0dBFS showing heavy dirty ISPs or is that something that should be definitely and in all cases be avoided in any genre in these days of the streaming where the main streaming services turn down any music anyhow no matter what genre?...

Let me learn please...

Frank
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Old 09-04-2017, 08:25 AM   #25
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I hope you don't mind my thoughts ... - but I think there is a little thing that - even in Metal(Nu)- should be avoided in these days of EBU and LUFS and Loudness and Streaming Services who are the cash-cows of the big companies now (have you seen the results of Universal regarding streaming income?)

I've attached a screenshot of (in my opinion) the best analyzer around..

The overall curve compared to MetalNu is just great (also in my ears :-)

DR 7 is quite okay for your genre I think, as I'm not really active in that Metal genre...

The Pan - Balance (see 2-8k vs. 300-400) - not sure if you intended it to be like that? ..

And one thing that I really don't know - is it a special feature of the Metal genre still in these days that the compressed audio is peaking at 0dBFS showing heavy dirty ISPs or is that something that should be definitely and in all cases be avoided in any genre in these days of the streaming where the main streaming services turn down any music anyhow no matter what genre?...

Let me learn please...

Frank
All input is welcome, no worries there.

As to your question, I am not experienced in this sort of thing, it's just a side hobby I am trying to get better at. I said all that to say, I don't understand what you're asking or how to answer it 😂

@bladerunner did the mastering and understands the lingo, perhaps he can provide some insight.
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Old 09-04-2017, 08:36 AM   #26
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@skippertag, I suppose to summarize, all I have to go by is my ears. I could download the same analysis tool you have and not have a clue what I am looking at.

At this stage in my learning, I am experimenting with what I have learned and letting my ears by the final judge more so that what I might see in an analyzer.

Granted, with a better understanding of available tools, I'm sure this will all change in the future, but the ears should always be the final authority. I would be a fool to say that my (or any) mix is perfect, though. There is always room for improvement and I am here to learn as well.
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Old 09-04-2017, 10:52 AM   #27
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I'm still studying techniques for getting bass to cut through.

It's an interesting topic. If you listen to older music, you can clearly hear every instrument, and the songs are typically well mixed without overdoing it in any frequencies. For example, bass in older music doesn't typically drive the subs like modern music, but that's fine because you can still hear what you need.
A lot of that is good arrangement & playing, with no instruments getting in the way of the others.

I'd recommend reading some interviews of Carol Kaye, she recorded thousands of bass tracks like that. Back in these days studios didn't have much in the way of processing to put on a bass guitar, if any, so it was important to get it sounding right at the source.

- old strings, maybe even flatwound
- plectrum
- foam mute near the bridge
- record with mic through an old school amp & cab

All of this combines to remove the sub frequencies as you've already noticed, but also the overtones and highs, which are not required in old school playing, and just get in the way of other instruments in the mix.

It will also sound quite percussive and compressed if played well. Try it and see, it's a remarkable sound. Sometimes the basslines were doubled with a guitar playing an octave higher to cut through on really bad speakers. "Tic Tac Bass".

Nowadays people achieve something like this with EQ, compression, fake mid frequency generators and whatnot, but the old ways have a lot to commend them :-)

Great work on the mix and video by the way, sounding totally rocking!

Cheers,
Jennifer
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Old 09-04-2017, 11:59 AM   #28
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@endorka, thanks for the info and the kind words! You guys and girls are being very gentle with me and I appreciate it. I am very critical of my own work, and I honestly feel like this is the best I have ever done. I hope to be able to improve and get this down to a pseudo-science.
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Old 09-04-2017, 02:03 PM   #29
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Excellent work Myk, I'd be proud of it too. Congrats to Bladerunner as well.
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Old 09-04-2017, 02:39 PM   #30
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@skippertag, I suppose to summarize, all I have to go by is my ears. I could download the same analysis tool you have and not have a clue what I am looking at.

At this stage in my learning, I am experimenting with what I have learned and letting my ears by the final judge more so that what I might see in an analyzer.

Granted, with a better understanding of available tools, I'm sure this will all change in the future, but the ears should always be the final authority. I would be a fool to say that my (or any) mix is perfect, though. There is always room for improvement and I am here to learn as well.
Interesting point (let your ears decide) that so many people tell ya (people who are very very experienced and in the mixing mastering business for a very long time where the new digital standards haven't been present... and who have the best monitoring money can buy...) For me, personally, without analyzers I couldn't do my job like I do it.. especially when it comes to Inter Sample Peaks and the new loudness "rules"..

but anyhow ... funny thing ... just after I wrote my comment I received an email from iZotope with an interesting blogpost (in particular No. 4: "Use the meter instead of you ear" ;-)

https://www.izotope.com/en/community...d-but-did.html

Just to mention it again - I think you made a great song with meaningful lyrics and a top notch arrangement!
Congrats!
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Old 09-04-2017, 03:43 PM   #31
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The Pan - Balance (see 2-8k vs. 300-400) - not sure if you intended it to be like that? ..
I'm not familiar with this analysis tool, but one thing my ears picked up was the difference in tone between the guitars on the left and right. Sometimes they were quite different tonally, but they are different guitar parts with different sounds / players (?) - not doubled - so this might be a feature rather than bug?

If I would offer a criticism of the mix it is that in some sections, I would have preferred a more cohesive sound and perhaps slightly tighter playing from the guitars on either side. But I suspect most listeners won't notice this, so it's a small criticism.

How did you do the drums by the way? They sound really good.

Cheers,
Jennifer
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Old 09-04-2017, 03:47 PM   #32
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I'm not familiar with this analysis tool, but one thing my ears picked up was the difference in tone between the guitars on the left and right. Sometimes they were quite different tonally, but they are different guitar parts with different sounds / players (?) - not doubled - so this might be a feature rather than bug?

If I would offer a criticism of the mix it is that in some sections, I would have preferred a more cohesive sound and perhaps slightly tighter playing from the guitars on either side. But I suspect most listeners won't notice this, so it's a small criticism.

How did you do the drums by the way? They sound really good.

Cheers,
Jennifer
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Old 09-04-2017, 03:53 PM   #33
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@endorka my church has an X32 and a mic'ed drum booth.
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Old 09-04-2017, 04:33 PM   #34
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Nice job all around...

tg
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:15 AM   #35
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Was a pleasure to be a part of this. Myk's mixing has improved a lot since the first time we encountered each other here at the forum. Evidenced by the song in the great video

The mastering involved a few eq tweaks to remove some heavy low mid frequencies and to reveal the vocal (and drum transient detail) a touch more. A touch of de essing too. Apart from that it was all about using a few favourite tools to glue and polish things. SlickHDR and Waves Tonecentric were both used. Touch of an exciter on the high end (although it was actually low pass filtered too).
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Old 09-05-2017, 02:25 PM   #36
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@bladerunner, when you checked out my mix, was the right side of the stereo field louder to you? I think i need to get tested, I am starting to suspect I have some hearing loss in my right ear Granted I should get proper testing to assess that but a previous comment on here regarding an analyzer made me want to look into this a bit further.
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Old 09-05-2017, 02:53 PM   #37
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Was a pleasure to be a part of this. Myk's mixing has improved a lot since the first time we encountered each other here at the forum. Evidenced by the song in the great video

The mastering involved a few eq tweaks to remove some heavy low mid frequencies and to reveal the vocal (and drum transient detail) a touch more. A touch of de essing too. Apart from that it was all about using a few favourite tools to glue and polish things. SlickHDR and Waves Tonecentric were both used. Touch of an exciter on the high end (although it was actually low pass filtered too).
Hi Blade!
thank you for the insights to your work on that track!

May I ask where these heavy ISPs can possibly come from that I can see here when listening in youtube or also checking the extracted and then downloaded mp3? Is that due to the youtube converting algorhythms? I'm asking because I'm planning to upload a couple tunes and want to avoid that as far as possible..

Many thanks in advance for your response.
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:36 PM   #38
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It's an interesting topic. If you listen to older music, you can clearly hear every instrument, and the songs are typically well mixed without overdoing it in any frequencies. For example, bass in older music doesn't typically drive the subs like modern music, but that's fine because you can still hear what you need.
IMO in a way they had an easier job than people trying to jam (heh) a workable bass track into a more modern heavy track. At least there weren't any loud nasty guitars to fight with. I'm seriously amazed how some metal mixes fit distinct bass track in there.

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I've attached a screenshot of (in my opinion) the best analyzer around..
Neat little graph. Does it mean everything is highpassed above around 40Hz?
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Old 09-06-2017, 02:16 AM   #39
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IMO in a way they had an easier job than people trying to jam (heh) a workable bass track into a more modern heavy track. At least there weren't any loud nasty guitars to fight with. I'm seriously amazed how some metal mixes fit distinct bass track in there.



Neat little graph. Does it mean everything is highpassed above around 40Hz?
That's a question you may ask to the mixing and mastering engineers.
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Old 09-13-2017, 02:46 AM   #40
bladerunner
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@bladerunner, when you checked out my mix, was the right side of the stereo field louder to you? I think i need to get tested, I am starting to suspect I have some hearing loss in my right ear Granted I should get proper testing to assess that but a previous comment on here regarding an analyzer made me want to look into this a bit further.
I'm so sorry - I forgot to answer this. I don't think the mix sounds imblanced if that's what you're asking. Iirc the guitar on the right was a little louder than the one on the left but then that's the case in many classic, popular songs also. I certainly didn't hear anything pan related as a 'problem'.
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