Multitouch Mixer

[Rico Sergeant]

Just as the title says I think reaper needs a multitouch capable mixer so we can mix with a touchscreen.

[foxAsteria]

It's in preferences>keyboard/multitouch.

[Dragonetti]

only multitouch for gesture
swipe
zoom
rotate

[TobyAM]

Right, only gestures and basic app navigation are implemented (I think some as native Windows functions). What Rico is asking for specifically is the ability to control more than one function, more than one touch, discreetly, and simultaneously in the mixer. For example, this would allow you to control more than one fader at the same time (amazing!), whereas right now you are limited to a one-finger mix.

I've been using Reaper exclusively on a touchscreen for months now and it's amazing. My carpel tunnel symptoms are subsiding, and it's very fast and organic feeling. Reaper has only just scratched the surface on implementing touch, though. You can only assign basic, general gestures to actions directly, such as (MultiZoom) gesture.

What would be a massive improvement is implementing more granular touch control, much like TouchMe Gesture Studio provides. I use this to create key command macros that then trigger Reaper, but it could be so much more immersive and responsive if Reaper tapped into the touch api a bit deeper on it's own.

+1 for multitouch control in the mixer (at least)
+1 for more granular gesture control (i.e. 'two finger swipe left')

In the meantime I'll continue having a blast with Reaper on my touchscreen.

[plush2]

+1 for this. It is very hard to go back once one is used to a touch screen. I'm envisioning being able to assign first touch as select, second touch as modifier one, third touch as modifier two, add pinch and scroll modifier options to those as well. Having multi touch in the mixer would obviously be very useful as well.

[TonE]

Are not hardware faders better? I could imagine following workflow: You touch a few tracks on screen, then those tracks are controlable via the hardware faders. Best of both worlds. In both cases you are using your hands, no mouse. Selection of tracks from the mixer or anywhere, e.g. up to 8, then control those selected tracks from the motorized hardware.

Web remote buttons, for track selection. Hardware faders for control. If you touch only a single track, it could automatically map the next 7 tracks as well to the other 7 faders. Only if you touch more than 1, it would map those tracks individually to the next available faders.

In short: Track to fader has to be as simple, easy, direct as possible.

[ijijn]

I heartily support this idea.

There are some slightly tricky decisions to be made regarding multi-touch: in particular, how do you support multiple independent single-touches/drags vs single/multiple multi-touch gestures? Here's a scenario to demonstrate...

In the mixer, I want to decrease the size of the tracks so I perform a pinch. What if these touches inadvertently land on specific controls, such as buttons or faders? Which do you prioritise? There are certain operations that transform the touch landscape considerably (resizing and the like) while others have much more local effects. Possibly the underlying question is how do you plan your touch zones for reliable operation in what could be a densely-crowded environment? Of course, this intersects strongly with the realm of theming.

As a slight tangent, I've started working my way through JUCE's GUI components adding multi-touch capabilities where applicable; if these pull requests are included we'll also be getting better multi-touch plugins (when built on JUCE) for free. Otherwise it'll just be the ones I make.

[TonE]

Simplest design would be probably the web remote. Having there only numbers 1..100 for example, for each track a number. Then colors could have meanings, drums, bass, synths, guitars, strings ... each using different colors. Also each having its parent group. Then selecting the numbers, controling on the hardware faders. Not good enough?

[foxAsteria]

Originally Posted by TonE

Are not hardware faders better? I could imagine following workflow: You touch a few tracks on screen, then those tracks are controlable via the hardware faders. Best of both worlds. In both cases you are using your hands, no mouse.

I definitely like the feel of hardware better. You don't need to see where your hands are as much.

Ideal for me would be a way for knobs and faders to track the controls under the mouse cursor, so that I could just point the mouse with my right and use the MIDI controller with my left.

That's actually what I do now, but I have adjust each control a little bit with my mouse first for the "adjust last fx parameter" action to work.

But for live, multitouch is going to be very helpful as it eliminates the need for a dedicated MIDI controller at shows.


On the touch subject: are you guys able to scroll with 2 finger gestures, because it doesn't seem to work for me?

[Dani Vallés]

Searching for this, it seems the first request for proper multitouch date back almost a decade ago and it's still being actively requested

I don't fully understand why this is not getting more attentionm from developers, maybe because this technology is still rare on big format screens.

Very tempted to buy a big Multitouch screen but not being able to use more than one finger at a time seems a like a huge drawback.

[X. O. Apodo]

I would love to see a multi-touch mixer in Reaper 6.
My multi-touch monitor is waiting.

Lack of ARA and multi-touch mixer are the only reason I do not use Reaper.

[TonE]

Are not pen displays much better?

[drummerboy]

It‘s not a question of „what is better“ IMO.
A hardware fader will always have haptic feedback that
a touch monitor lacks.

I think what the Thread starter is asking for is TUIO support for Reaper.

+1 from a happy slate raven user

[X. O. Apodo]

Does any one know if multi-touch for the mixer will be implemented in Reaper 6? For me the rest of the features need not be multi-touch.

There is the issue of using the mouse at the same time a touch. The Mouse pointer jumps to the touch point. The first finger to touch is considered the mouse pointer event creates this issue. Does anyone now how to fix this problem?

I am thinking of switching to Reaper 6 from S1 v3.

[foxAsteria]

Originally Posted by X. O. Apodo

Does any one know if multi-touch for the mixer will be implemented in Reaper 6?

There are no guarantees whatsoever. The mighty Cockos devs do not reveal their plans for the future.

[ivansc]

In practical terms, I would have thought that multi-touch on a large monitor would be a pain in the elbow, wrist, shoulder, hand and ass...

I don't know anyone who is using the Slate Raven or similar but I have always felt that the only practical way to use touchscreens would be to have one angled almost flat like a real desk and another screen above it where you can see what you are doing. Which I would have thought would negate any advantages to be gained by using a touchscreen setup with a DAW?
How would you envisage setting up a system and workflow to use this? On, say, a 32" monitor?

[X. O. Apodo]

Originally Posted by ivansc

In practical terms, I would have thought that multi-touch on a large monitor would be a pain in the elbow, wrist, shoulder, hand and ass...

I don't know anyone who is using the Slate Raven or similar but I have always felt that the only practical way to use touchscreens would be to have one angled almost flat like a real desk and another screen above it where you can see what you are doing. Which I would have thought would negate any advantages to be gained by using a touchscreen setup with a DAW?
How would you envisage setting up a system and workflow to use this? On, say, a 32" monitor?

My 43' non-touch is nearly vertical and y 23' multi touch is at about 15 degrees off the desk. The DAW is on the big screen and my touch midi controller and Mixer on the touch screen.

I am happy with this setup but would have liked to also have the 43" multi-touch as occasionally it would help the workflow. Up to now am happy to use the mouse on the DAW.

[ivansc]

Now that setup makes sense. How do you cope with the different scaling between what you are looking at and what you are touch-controlling?
Do you sort of get used to it with practice?

[X. O. Apodo]

Originally Posted by ivansc

Now that setup makes sense. How do you cope with the different scaling between what you are looking at and what you are touch-controlling?
Do you sort of get used to it with practice?

I use the Windows Xotopad as a midi controller. I also have an iPad that I also use as a midi controller.

The mixer can be the touch or the non-touch screen, but for maore serious mixing best to be on the touch screen.

As stated earlier I prefer to use the mouse and qwerty on S1 or Reaper on the big non-touch scree. But very often it would be nice to be able to click on something on the DAW without going for the mouse.

[White Tie]

Originally Posted by ivansc

In practical terms, I would have thought that multi-touch on a large monitor would be a pain in the elbow, wrist, shoulder, hand and ass...

And the research backs you up. Ish.

Touch is great, multi-touch is even more great, when designed specifically and exclusively for. I would love to be proven wrong, but my expectation would be that simply making the Reaper mixer multi-touch would turn out to be a disappointingly unsatisfying experience. Multi-touch scripts could, however, be potentially awesome.

[plush2]

Originally Posted by White Tie

And the research backs you up. Ish.

Touch is great, multi-touch is even more great, when designed specifically and exclusively for. I would love to be proven wrong, but my expectation would be that simply making the Reaper mixer multi-touch would turn out to be a disappointingly unsatisfying experience. Multi-touch scripts could, however, be potentially awesome.

Agreed. Being able to leverage hand-eye coordination so directly is the real advantage of touch and multitouch in my opinion. At the same time simulating any sort of interface built around tactile control is going to be tricky.

[Silventar]

+1 for multi-touch mixer. I get that gestures and multi-touch mixer implementation is tough to handle. In meantime, it could be a toggle option: MtitouchMixer Mode OR Guesture Touch Mode.

[mschnell]

I don't run Reaper on a touch enabled device, but I do run the control program for a Rack Mixer on a (Windows Tablet) touch screen and I find it hard to manage even a single fader without haptic feedback. So I never tried multiple at the same time.

-Michael

[ivansc]

Funnily enough this is where I join the touchy feely brigade.
I have TouchOSC on my 8" Android tablet which is great for remote control of transport etc when sitting on my drum stool.

Also bought an iPad to use Onsong setlist/lyrics irganiser which has liberated me when playing live.

But I still feel like - after having played with a friends touchscreen setup - we are a long way from a rational way to use multitouch with recording and editing software like reaper.

I bought a vertical mouse, which has taken care of all my rsi issues, btw.

[Not_Here]

Logic Pro has a great remote I ran on my iPad and it was very configurable and customizable. However.....

Here I am a very satisfied Reaper..

But it might make a good model for what could be done with the same for Reaper?

[mschnell]

Did you see -> https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...postcount=1160

Thy claim to support MultiTouch (seemingly on iPads and Android Pads), and Reaper compatibility out of the box.

-Michael

[Manight]

+1 for multitouch mixer and native touch friendly features (pinches, swipes, and so on... with action assignable).
I think an innovative DAW like Reaper is already late on this.

[poetnprophet]

+1 for this. I'm not a slate raven user, but I wish I was...except for the fact that this is unsupported with Reaper.

[TobyAM]

Originally Posted by drummerboy

It‘s not a question of „what is better“ IMO.
A hardware fader will always have haptic feedback that
a touch monitor lacks.

I think what the Thread starter is asking for is TUIO support for Reaper.

+1 from a happy slate raven user

The haptic feedback just happens in your ears instead of your fingers. Reaper could also create haptic feedback like a smartphone does by making reaper output some haptic sounds to the monitor speakers.

[TobyAM]

Originally Posted by Manight

+1 for multitouch mixer and native touch friendly features (pinches, swipes, and so on... with action assignable).
I think an innovative DAW like Reaper is already late on this.

Exactly this. People here are getting fixated on the mixer faders, but it's so much more than that.

I've been using Reaper exclusively with 3 touchscreens for years now (no mouse!) and it's amazing. Carpel tunnel is gone, but yes my shoulders are more toned now.

I've used 3rd party apps to create dozens of macros and scripts to make everything as Minority Report -esque as possible, and I'm pretty happy with it.

Yes, a key feature of this setup is that I have 8 motorized faders integrated front and center. It is necessary for a speedy workflow or reliable automation grabs. I don't think a touchscreen should be expected to replace the physical focus on a fader that motorized faders allow. It is just another option, in that case.

[Superfly76]

A big +1 for multitouch support and a multitouch mixer. I have been using a Dell P2714T 27" multitouch monitor for years. I have it set up at a 15 to 30 degree angle (like a drafting table), with a second non-touch 27" monitor above it at a 90 degree angle. TCP goes on the non touch monitor and and the MCP goes on the touch monitor. I also have motorized faders, but I love reaching out and grabbing a fader and controlling it on the screen in realtime.

Where it really shines is in automating plugin paramaters. Many plugins already support multitouch, so just enable touch on the automation setting and then reach out and tweak the knobs in realtime. It is smoother than using a mousewheel. It is a ton of fun. I've always been baffled why more people don't do this!

[Superfly76]

Here’s a few photos of my setup for the past 7 years:





Don't know why that bottom one is sideways, it's the correct orientation on my phone.

Edit:
Also, my mobile computer is a Surface Pro, which also has touch. I use it a lot out playing live. As you can see, every computer I have is touch enabled.

[TobyAM]

Originally Posted by Superfly76

Where it really shines is in automating plugin paramaters. Many plugins already support multitouch, s

Did not know that, ty!

[TonE]

Originally Posted by Superfly76

Here’s a few photos of my setup for the past 7 years:





Don't know why that bottom one is sideways, it's the correct orientation on my phone.

Edit:
Also, my mobile computer is a Surface Pro, which also has touch. I use it a lot out playing live. As you can see, every computer I have is touch enabled.

Looks cool, can you tell more about the single fader controller on the left, how you are using it? Where is it mostly useful, where not?

[moris]

+1 for multitouch mixer, please!

[poetnprophet]

+1

I have 16 physical faders and channel strips, but they suck. At the end, I barely use it, only for track selection, mute/rec/solo, and transport. Even the pan is unreliable. Plus the amount of space!

I figure, with at 24" screen I can get almost double the amount of visible tracks, access to all channel functions, setup toolbars and transport pinned, and have the same thing and more. And, it's just reaper I' messing with, not another peripheral...per se.

My studio has a similar setup as above except the large screen is really the only screen, and the lower screen is 16 faders mixer instead of touch. Looking to do similar, but probably have the screen a little more flat.

I have tried on my little laptop with a touchscreen, the mixer navigation was just terrible and awkward. Maybe there's a setting I need to implement, but it was impossible to navigate the mixer, scrolling, etc.

[otb]

Multitouch will actually be fun. I thought it was a waste, but no it’s going to be awesome.

I got a convertible idea pad a few months ago. Lots of fun.

First:
the VI synths could be so cool as you could play while performing the knobs on the screen. Better than midi controller because it’s a pia to setup controller for every VST and it takes brainpower to remember what knob is what; so it rarely gets done here for most. A few buttons that’s it. With touch you reach up and mess with stuff. Also the virtual keyboard is handy on touch even though there is no velocity. It’s a little easier to use the screen vs typing keys, but only one touch makes it’s useless. Apple figured it out, so it’s not impossible. But that’s not even my main want

Second;
Opening up 10 fingers for mixing changes the game. I avoid touch screens mostly, the only time I remember I have a touchscreen is when I want to automate faders/pans. And when that happens I ALWAYS prefer to lower fader level at same time as boosting echo sends. But that’s impossible without controller, which none of my controllers are accurate enough. I just go to analog or draw in the automation. Analog has been awesome, no complaints. During lazy times, it would be fun to have the same experience on the couch.