No Master?

Spacemen Tree · 12-11-2018, 05:23 PM

Is anyone mixing in REAPER using no master track?
I mean, using a track as Sub Mix and just leaving the master untouched?
Drawbacks? What's your experience?

lucas_LCS · 12-11-2018, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spacemen Tree

Is anyone mixing in REAPER using no master track?
I mean, using a track as Sub Mix and just leaving the master untouched?
Drawbacks? What's your experience?

This is what I do
I may put a limiter on the Master, but I generally never touch the Master fader or other controls on it.
I use Master mostly for overall metering.
My needs are pretty simple, though.

Philbo King · 12-11-2018, 11:23 PM

Me too. The only drawback is that the Master track has RMS+Peak metering and the 'homemade' one doesn't. Not really a big deal for me, though because I use a LUFS meter in the monitor effects to watch levels.

Dr Bob · 12-12-2018, 04:51 AM

The main ADVANTAGE of using your own master is that the plugins you use can be distributed across your processors, whereas on the master track they are all on the same one as the audio thread.

This often cures some glitching for some people when their RT Cpu hits the roof!

Generally a good thing IMO and you can then put your metering and analysis on the master channel if you wish.

On caveat - not everyone sees performance increases (many do though), and it takes a bit more work to make sure everything is routed correctly to your own "master" (easy to get a doubling up of audio if you miss just one "master/parent send".

dB

bladerunner · 12-12-2018, 05:31 AM

I just use the master as a metering indicator. I don't have any plugins on it.

It's a good idea to never touch the master gain otherwise you've lost your reference for peaks for gain staging/rendering.

Dr Bob · 12-12-2018, 06:13 AM

^^^^^ this ^^^^^

dB

Spacemen Tree · 12-12-2018, 07:30 AM

Yeah, just what I thought. Thanks for confirming my thoughts on the matter. Always good to double-check in case something got overlooked.

Quote:

On caveat - not everyone sees performance increases (many do though), and it takes a bit more work to make sure everything is routed correctly to your own "master" (easy to get a doubling up of audio if you miss just one "master/parent send".

Had the same thought. Already wrote a new track script that takes care of it.

Cheers guys!

ashcat_lt · 12-12-2018, 11:27 AM

It's a good idea for a number of reasons, and when I record live or full band performances, I will have it set up with an FOH/control room bus and a Mon/phones bus during tracking, and then I use it in the mix cause it's already there. Things I record by myself "upstairs" usually don't start from that template, but I'd honestly ought to change that some day soon.

serr · 12-12-2018, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spacemen Tree

Is anyone mixing in REAPER using no master track?
I mean, using a track as Sub Mix and just leaving the master untouched?
Drawbacks? What's your experience?

Yeah, this is SOP. The master is supposed to be just a hardware send and best used for only that. The master stays at unity gain for studio work with no exceptions. Metering plugins are the only thing appropriate to insert on the master as well. I'll use it to dim the whole system as appropriate for live sound work as you do but that's the only exception.

ashcat_lt · 12-12-2018, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serr

I'll use it to dim the whole system as appropriate for live sound work as you do but that's the only exception.

Not sure what you mean by that (???) but I know how I'm gonna do it, and it's a damn good idea.

serr · 12-12-2018, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashcat_lt

Not sure what you mean by that (???) but I know how I'm gonna do it, and it's a damn good idea.

You typically set the amps for the system for what you're going to call your max volume. So unity on the master fader would be full volume for the PA. Sometimes you lower your system volume at shows from max. I suppose in a perfect world the most proper gain staging way to do that would be to readjust the amp levels to allow you to keep your master at unity... or just grab the master fader and lower it a little.

In the studio, you're mixing full scale into the wire and your monitor system volume is treated separately. So the master fader stays at unity.

ashcat_lt · 12-12-2018, 02:19 PM

Turning down the Master is easier than reaching for the hardware volume knob in my mix room and I have no problem doing that. It's also sometimes easier than turning down each individual "top level" track in a mix most of the time. These things you can do with a sub-master track fader of course. I have no problem doing either of them. When you said "to dim the whole system", I took to mean both FOH and Monitor. That is a great idea.

So what I'm going to do is delete the Hardware sends from the individual FOH and Monitor tracks, instead turning on their Parent sends but making sure they pass up to the Master on separate channel pairs. Then on the Master channels 1/2 go to one Hardware send and 3/4 go to the other. Then I can use the Master channel to adjust the entire system at once. Would mostly be for emergency situations, but a nice failsafe to have.

karbomusic · 12-12-2018, 02:32 PM

Quote:

The master stays at unity gain for studio work with no exceptions. Metering plugins are the only thing appropriate to insert on the master as well.

Metering plugins are often better served on the monitor FX and there is no reason not to put mastering FX on the master unless you are one of those who suffer CPU issues with them there (I don't). Also, there is nothing wrong with adjusting the master if needed, that "unity" advice is both a holdover from the analog days and more of a training wheel for newbs - albeit I typically don't have to adjust it since I'd imagine I know what I'm doing and because I just use one of the plugins I have on the master to compensate if needed.