Old 03-12-2020, 09:38 AM   #1
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Default SSD5 for 60s sounds

I have very specific taste in drum sounds, as is evidenced by many of my posts. I'm getting to a point where I'm needing to customize what I currently use, so I'm looking at full Kontakt (which is $399 reg price right now).

I tripped over Steven Slate drums last night and found the workflow intriguing.

The main sounds are quite forward and modern sounding, which is not super useful for me. Does anyone know how flexible SSD5 is? Can I easily get 60s/vintage sounds? I'm talking Cream, Hendrix, The Beatles. I also like the tight, dry, tea towel style of the early 70s.

I do NOT want John Bonham. This is what most samplers think "vintage" means. That's cool if you like Zeppelin, but I just don't care for them. Personal taste.

Thoughts?
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Old 03-12-2020, 11:47 AM   #2
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EZDruumer2 on sale & add their 60s EZX at 50% off or sometimes free with purchase of EZD.

Works for me.
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Old 03-12-2020, 11:52 AM   #3
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What are you using now, Kirk?
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Old 03-12-2020, 12:30 PM   #4
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SM Drums for Sforzando and Karoryfer Gogodze Vol II for Sforzando. The latter is a muffled/tea towel style kit.

One of the defining characteristics of 1960s rock drums is the room sound. There's a fair amount of space around the kit. Most samples are very close sounding, which is great if you like that sledgehammer sound.

It does sound cool. I like that Chuck Ainsley recorded the samples at British Grove, but it's probably easier to just go Kontakt and keep my workflow as it is.
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Old 03-12-2020, 04:18 PM   #5
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This is their 60s preset here, it sounds pretty good but you can also go into the mixer and disable all close mics to dial in what you want. I also think it sometimes sounds better with just the overheads and room mics
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Old 03-12-2020, 04:50 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by pandabot View Post
This is their 60s preset here, it sounds pretty good but you can also go into the mixer and disable all close mics to dial in what you want. I also think it sometimes sounds better with just the overheads and room mics
That's cool.

I actually really like the sound of the vintage kits. I wish I could just have those. I don't need the heavier stuff.
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Old 03-12-2020, 05:28 PM   #7
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Sounds like Abbey Road 60's Drummer was made for you.

Nothing else will give you period correct techniques and gear.

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Old 03-12-2020, 06:41 PM   #8
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Sounds like Abbey Road 60's Drummer was made for you.

Nothing else will give you period correct techniques and gear.

Def worth looking at
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Old 03-12-2020, 09:47 PM   #9
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These guys do really great sounding stuff for dirt cheap to free:

https://gumroad.com/pasttofuturesamples?sort=newest

Motown kits, Beatles kits, Floyd kits, psychedelic kits, etc. Kontakt format.
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Old 03-12-2020, 10:29 PM   #10
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This is 100% what you're looking for- https://www.toontrack.com/product/decades-sdx/
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Old 03-13-2020, 02:46 AM   #11
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This is 100% what you're looking for- https://www.toontrack.com/product/decades-sdx/
I love Superior Drummer, but that is a big investment for someone who only wants to use a small section of what it offers. Pretty sure that I remember Kirk saying he doesn't like endless tweaking and option paralysis, too.

NI 60's drummer is a fraction of the cost of buying SD3 and the Decades expansion, plus it runs in the free Kontakt Player, so you don't have to pay for anything else. It is often on sale, too. It's a bit long in the tooth, but feed it good MIDI and I think it still holds up.
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Old 03-13-2020, 08:46 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
These guys do really great sounding stuff for dirt cheap to free:

https://gumroad.com/pasttofuturesamples?sort=newest

Motown kits, Beatles kits, Floyd kits, psychedelic kits, etc. Kontakt format.
I am aware of these guys. Strong contender.
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Old 03-13-2020, 09:09 AM   #13
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I love Superior Drummer, but that is a big investment for someone who only wants to use a small section of what it offers. Pretty sure that I remember Kirk saying he doesn't like endless tweaking and option paralysis, too.

NI 60's drummer is a fraction of the cost of buying SD3 and the Decades expansion, plus it runs in the free Kontakt Player, so you don't have to pay for anything else. It is often on sale, too. It's a bit long in the tooth, but feed it good MIDI and I think it still holds up.
I do like this too. The vintage recording techniques are very interesting. I can presently get it for $99CAD right from NI.

You're right, Judders, I do not like too much tweaking. I want it to feel like I've recorded an irl drummer, then I'm just mixing down tracks.

This is why I've stuck with Tod's sforzando templates for so long. I can trust the samples to deliver what I want to hear, then I can hone it in the mix.

I'd like to experiment a bit more with mono, add a secondary kick with minimal headaches, control how much space I'm getting, and mic techniques at source.

I like the Kontakt workflow, in terms of instrument GUI clarity. I can finally run Kontakt without worrying about CPU, so it's a strong contender.

I did pick up Arcana, so K6 is only $249. That's still a little more than I want to spend. Are there more discounts for every qualifying instrument you have?
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Old 03-13-2020, 10:54 AM   #14
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I did pick up Arcana, so K6 is only $249. That's still a little more than I want to spend. Are there more discounts for every qualifying instrument you have?
You don't need full Kontakt to run 60's Drummer. It works with the free Kontakt Player.
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Old 03-13-2020, 11:21 AM   #15
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I love Superior Drummer, but that is a big investment for someone who only wants to use a small section of what it offers.
Thats why I suggested EZDrummer2. I have SD2 and SD3 as well as WEZD2 & I still wind up using EZD a lot for the more straightforward stuff I do.

Sadly I cant see a TT sale on at present but of course the free version, although limited, would be ideal for 60`s stuff BECAUSE of the limited kit pieces.

FWIW I couldnt get on with SSD5, or in fact SSD4 Platinum, despite still having 3.5 (the Kontakt version) on my machine & occasionally using it.
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Old 03-13-2020, 12:00 PM   #16
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Thats why I suggested EZDrummer2. I have SD2 and SD3 as well as WEZD2 & I still wind up using EZD a lot for the more straightforward stuff I do.

Sadly I cant see a TT sale on at present but of course the free version, although limited, would be ideal for 60`s stuff BECAUSE of the limited kit pieces.

FWIW I couldnt get on with SSD5, or in fact SSD4 Platinum, despite still having 3.5 (the Kontakt version) on my machine & occasionally using it.
I'll tilt my hand and let you know I've ruled out SSD5. I knew within 5mins, it wasn't going to work for me.

I'm very tempted by Abbey Road 60s. They're offering it to me for $99. I'll bet that can cascade into crossgrade deals down then line on K6 Full.

Also I like the Kontakt stuff because it's not just drums. I have a separate life in theatre and film. I've done a bit of sound design and Kontakt instruments/libraries are very useful in that field. So many oddball samples, but in an industry standard package.

I also have the strong urging of the great and fearless Tod to aquire Kontakt. His recommendations must be consulted. A finer gentleman and mentor you would be hard-pressed to find.
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Old 03-13-2020, 12:12 PM   #17
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It's settled, then.
I picked up Kontakt in one of the autumn sales but haven't bothered to try the Abbey Road drums as I already have Superior Drummer 3. However, at 6 or 7 Gigs, it must be a fairly detailed kit and, if it'll run on the free Kontakt player, it's probably a bargain at $99.
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Old 03-13-2020, 01:35 PM   #18
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Hmm, the NI website is funky. Sometimes it'll show me $99, other times will be $129. Weird. I'm going to wait and see. Some companies are running covid-19 promos. I'm not kidding.

UPDATE: I bought AR 60s Drummer, but when I went to check out and it was suddenly $129 again. I went ahead and bought it, but I sent a polite message to NI support.
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Old 03-14-2020, 11:43 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by kirk1701 View Post
Hmm, the NI website is funky. Sometimes it'll show me $99, other times will be $129. Weird. I'm going to wait and see. Some companies are running covid-19 promos. I'm not kidding.

UPDATE: I bought AR 60s Drummer, but when I went to check out and it was suddenly $129 again. I went ahead and bought it, but I sent a polite message to NI support.
Aah, so you got the Abbey Roads 60 Drummer library. Ha ha, that will keep you busy for a while.
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Old 03-14-2020, 01:25 PM   #20
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Aah, so you got the Abbey Roads 60 Drummer library. Ha ha, that will keep you busy for a while.
Lol! I'm sure of it. Might need some tips on templates for Reapee.

I could see why EZDrummer is popular. It just wasn't sonically what I wanted. Though it came very close.
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Old 03-14-2020, 03:33 PM   #21
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kirk: The BIG THING with EZDrummer is that there is an adequate selection of kits/styles included with the basic plugin but then there is also a massive library of alternatives from a full orchestral percussion EZX to all points in between that & the Yamaha suitcase kit included with the basic EZD2!
However, I agree with you on getting into the Kontakt fold. I bought the full program at version 3 & have kept up to date but mostly use third party instruments, most notably Chris Hein Horns, which are fantastic.
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Old 03-14-2020, 04:38 PM   #22
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Lol! I'm sure of it. Might need some tips on templates for Reapee.
The main thing is getting the outputs of Kontakt setup with Reaper. Once they are setup
make a track template of it.

Let me know if you need any help.
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Old 03-14-2020, 04:58 PM   #23
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The main thing is getting the outputs of Kontakt setup with Reaper. Once they are setup
make a track template of it.

Let me know if you need any help.
Does Kontakt Player have multiple outputs? I thought it was just stereo out.
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Old 03-14-2020, 07:34 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Tod View Post
The main thing is getting the outputs of Kontakt setup with Reaper. Once they are setup
make a track template of it.

Let me know if you need any help.
I've started with this template:
https://youtu.be/lCUCqJfSbN0

However, routing the individual kit pieces to outputs in Reaper is proving a bit more difficult.

I mean, I can get the sounds to go where I want them, but I kinda want the names to go too.

I'd like to be able to save a tidy template like SM Drums. I learned that thing inside and out. It's very clear in Sforzando anyway.

I'll have to read the manual for Kontakt.
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Old 03-14-2020, 10:32 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by kirk1701 View Post
I've started with this template:
https://youtu.be/lCUCqJfSbN0

However, routing the individual kit pieces to outputs in Reaper is proving a bit more difficult.

I mean, I can get the sounds to go where I want them, but I kinda want the names to go too.

I'd like to be able to save a tidy template like SM Drums. I learned that thing inside and out. It's very clear in Sforzando anyway.

I'll have to read the manual for Kontakt.
Hi Kirk, it's very late here so I'll have to deal with this tomorrow. However, for drums in Kontakt I only use 2 midi tracks, one for kick, snare, toms and another track for all the cymbals. The reason I don't use just one track is because of the way the velocity's line up. By separating them up to 2 midi tracks works very well for this.

For the Kontakt audio outputs, it depends on the number of outputs that the Kontakt drum program instrument uses.

hopefully I can help more tomorrow.
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Old 03-15-2020, 10:24 AM   #26
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Hi Kirk, it's very late here so I'll have to deal with this tomorrow. However, for drums in Kontakt I only use 2 midi tracks, one for kick, snare, toms and another track for all the cymbals. The reason I don't use just one track is because of the way the velocity's line up. By separating them up to 2 midi tracks works very well for this.

For the Kontakt audio outputs, it depends on the number of outputs that the Kontakt drum program instrument uses.

hopefully I can help more tomorrow.
No problem, Tod. I actually have it mostly
sorted. I set it up with the two MIDI tracks like yourself. I also figured out the outputs.

The mapping is the last piece of the puzzle. I'd like to have the map visible in the MIDI editor/piano roll.
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Old 03-15-2020, 03:03 PM   #27
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The mapping is the last piece of the puzzle. I'd like to have the map visible in the MIDI editor/piano roll.
Pretty sure all the abbey road kit drum maps are in the stash under
Kontakt abbey road drum maps.

Cheers
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Old 03-15-2020, 03:40 PM   #28
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Pretty sure all the abbey road kit drum maps are in the stash under
Kontakt abbey road drum maps.

Cheers
Awesome!

All sorted! Now I can make music!
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