SENDS: Linked surround pan sending best practise

[Aurasphere]

Hi
Ill try to make this a lot simpler as I try and establish signal flows like Im use to;

Stereo Audio Channel > 6 channel fx send

FX Channel

1 2 3 4 5 6
| | | | | |
Front L Front R | | | |
Side L Side R | |
Rear L Rear R

>>> DOWNMIX TO STEREO <<<

How is it done in Reaper?

Sorry the output formatting doesnt not respect the editor and looks like a mess, hope it makes sense

[Aurasphere]

Hmm...bit of a showstopper if I cant do basics...or am I not waiting long enough?
THis is one of my top 5 cannot do without :-( ie Global Stage Space

[fakemaxwell]

Downmix with another instance of ReaSurroundPan on the track. 5.1 input, stereo output. LR 0db, C -3db, LsRs -3db (move them to LR). Turn down Lfe all the way.

[Aurasphere]

Originally Posted by fakemaxwell

Downmix with another instance of ReaSurroundPan on the track. 5.1 input, stereo output. LR 0db, C -3db, LsRs -3db (move them to LR). Turn down Lfe all the way.

I did already have a go but I cant see you get a send to go to all 6 channels and how you insert reasurround pan on the send (esp when it seems can only send on stereo pari)
Im missing something oviouusly...but brand newb

Am I also missing something...as it seems you cant paste images inline in your post?

[Aurasphere]

Originally Posted by fakemaxwell

Downmix with another instance of ReaSurroundPan on the track. 5.1 input, stereo output. LR 0db, C -3db, LsRs -3db (move them to LR). Turn down Lfe all the way.

I spent some time on this...I think we may be on different pages
I need any track send to a surround channel (fx) to have independent surround panning into that track
If you put the surround pan on the input of the track then wouldnt ALL the tracks sent to that channel then be controlled by that pan?

[shawnb61]

I think this is what you were asking for... How to easily go back & forth between a multichannel mix & a 2-channel folddown mix.

First off, I think these videos may help - they helped me a lot, and are thankfully short:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRG8QrcUODo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq5Y-CsAXeg

I have not gone beyond 5.1. BTW, my understanding is that the standards are:
- Front LR, chan 1 & 2
- Center, chan 3
- LFE, chan 4
- Rear LR, chan 5 & 6

The folddown to stereo is covered in the 2nd video above. It does take a couple steps, there is no automatic folddown button like some other DAWs have.

The process requires that you setup a separate 2 channel output on your Master track. Yep, it lets you do define multiple hardware outs... But at any point in time you should only have one active, either your multichannel out or your 2 channel out. Having both active is probably not good.

There is a Reaper plugin called "8x Mono to 1x Stereo Mixer". Place that on your surround mixing bus, that receives all your surround outputs. In this plugin, you define the stereo downmix. It's usually along the lines of:
- Channels 1 & 5 are panned hard left at 0 DB
- Channels 2 & 6 are panned hard right at 0 DB
- Channel 3 is panned in the middle at -3 DB
- Channel 4 is panned in the middle at -10 DB

When you want a multi channel mix, you deactivate the 2-channel output on the master channel, activate the 6-channel output on master, and deactivate the "8x Mono to 1x Stereo Mixer" plugin on the surround bus.

When you want a stereo downmix, you do the opposite: you activate the 2-channel output on the master channel, deactivate the 6-channel output on master, and activate the "8x Mono to 1x Stereo Mixer" plugin on the surround bus.

Once setup correctly, save as a project template...

(Shameless plug: You might find this script I wrote fun & helpful: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=296481)

[Aurasphere]

Its not actually what it seems...

In those vids anyway...different application

I dont actually use surround for outputs. Its used for soundstaging...so you can position elements in virtual space.
Unfortunately not the same thing but thanks so much for the reply

[shawnb61]

I think I see what you're getting at...

It sounds like you want to use the panner to emulate the stage. So you can just position the players/sound sources where you want and have the rest calc'd.

I haven't done this. My initial thoughts on that are exactly as stated above, just never setup the multichannel master out, and keep the folddown on all the time. Any true multichannel fx can go on the surround bus. Other FX can go on the feeding tracks.

I haven't used it, but it appears the older ReaSurround plugin is better for that application than ReaSurroundPan, as it has adjustments for stage size and relative location, etc.

I don't think either ReaSurround or ReaSurroundPan automatically adjust delay or reverb, etc., based on distance. If that's what you're aiming for, I believe you'll need to do that manually on the feeding tracks.

I'm not sure this will give better output than a normal stereo mix... But it would definitely help visualize things much better.

Hope this helps.

[Aurasphere]

Originally Posted by shawnb61

I think I see what you're getting at...

It sounds like you want to use the panner to emulate the stage. So you can just position the players/sound sources where you want and have the rest calc'd.

I haven't done this. My initial thoughts on that are exactly as stated above, just never setup the multichannel master out, and keep the folddown on all the time. Any true multichannel fx can go on the surround bus. Other FX can go on the feeding tracks.

I haven't used it, but it appears the older ReaSurround plugin is better for that application than ReaSurroundPan, as it has adjustments for stage size and relative location, etc.

I don't think either ReaSurround or ReaSurroundPan automatically adjust delay or reverb, etc., based on distance. If that's what you're aiming for, I believe you'll need to do that manually on the feeding tracks.

I'm not sure this will give better output than a normal stereo mix... But it would definitely help visualize things much better.

Hope this helps.

Therein lays the problem. Its the actual pan position that feeds into the surround which manages the ER (using true stereo impulses, Front to back decorrelation etc). So I can figure out in a flow, looking at the dialogues and referencing those videos, how you can actually surround pan the actual send of the track unless its the actual insert fx which is then not visible in the route/sends etc. Is that how it works? Like I said, a flowchart says it all in a couple of seconds but its not making sense to me and cannot find anyone using it in Reaper. Its a built in for Cubase so yeah...just trying to make sure it has an equivalent which isnt to complex so I can commit to the next emulation issue.

Cheers

[Tobbe]

Can this be of any help: https://plugins.iem.at/