Old 12-22-2017, 11:26 AM   #1
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Default Windows 10 and Asio drivers

Hello, everyone!

I've got a question about the behavior of Win 10 with Asio drivers for external audio interfaces. It is critical for me to hear more than one sound source during the work in Reaper (e.g. system sounds, as well as note edior, such as Guitar Pro).

So, here's the problem: when I tried to work on Win 7 with ASIO4ALL, it only allowed me to hear one source - the DAW or GP, depending on what was started first. How it behaves with extarnal audio interfaces and their Asio drivers I don't know.

But I wish to upgrade to Win 10 (I'm still on XP) but, as I said, it's critical to hear everything while DAW working with Asio driver (I'm using Behringer UMC 404, BTW). So, is there anyone who works on Win 10 with external audio interface? Your help is much appreciated!
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Old 12-22-2017, 10:59 PM   #2
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Firstly, the audio interface you are using has it's own ASIO driver, so no need to use ASIO4ALL anyway.

Voicemeeter or Voicemeeter Banana (Yes, that's what it's actually called) should be able to do what you want, but the price is added latency compared to what can be achieved with with the native ASIO driver for your audio interface.

https://www.vb-audio.com/Voicemeeter/index.htm


Another possible way to do things would be to use Reaper's ReaRoute feature which emulates an asio driver, so if guitar pro supports ASIO, you can tell it to use the ReaRoute asio driver, and get the audio into reaper that way.

The downside of that is that it doesn't solve the problem of wanting to hear audio for other general windows programs, and it still adds latency.

So, there are your options.

If you want the best latency performance, you can only run one program at a time, unless the behringer drivers are multi-client which I doubt.

If you are willing to sacrifice latency, Voicemeeter can do exactly what you want.

Depending on exactly what you are doing latency may not be a problem.
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Old 12-23-2017, 04:46 AM   #3
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Yeah....you should try the Behri official driver first.

Also worth a try:
Open Windows Manage Audio Devices - properties for your interface - Advanced - And untick Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device.

This can help in some cases but depends on the driver too.
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Old 12-23-2017, 05:11 AM   #4
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Briefly, I have a Xeon-based system running Win10 that I built in 2016. I had some trouble with older MOTU ASIO interface and drivers, and finally decided to go with a Windows-centric interface, an RME Fireface.

I’d been through a pretty detailed investigation of driver and latency issues, but at the end of all the fiddling, I realized that my Invidia and Realtek audio drivers were still installed. The Realtek stuff is disabled, the Nvidia stuff plays output from Firefox, etc. out my monitor speakers, and the RME ASIO is just as happy as could be. I have my computer sounds turned off, but I can run Reaper and YouTube at the same time because they’re separate audio systems.

So I’ve just left things alone, as none of the above seems to effect my work. HTH.
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Old 12-23-2017, 06:18 AM   #5
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Drumphil, Stella645, yes, I'm using Behringer's Asio driver right now, ASIO4ALL was just an example of how Win 7 behaves with Asio drivers, the way that I don't want Win 10 to beheve =) So, usually I'm using Reaper and Guitar Pro at the same time because I'm capturing many of my bass riff ideas that way. And I want my bass and note editor to sound from headphones. There's an option of direct monitorig on UMC 404, but it's very silent cuz it is a mix knob - fully left is direct, fully right is playback. So if I turn it fully left I won't b able to hear Guitar Pro anyway. And the bass will be heard only from left channel, which is not really good (it's annoying and not so good for your ears cuz that is unequal burden for them). That's why I'm putting bass through Reaper when writing my riffs. So yeah, that Banana or ReaRoute stuff may do a thing in this case, but I'll be glad to hear other options or somebody's personal expierence with Win 10 and Asio drivers.
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Old 12-23-2017, 07:25 AM   #6
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My personal experience.
I am using ASIO in Reaper on W10 and can play any other audio at the same time through the same device. it is not a limitation of W10 or of ASIO.

You read the rest of what I wrote in my previous post? Did you try it?
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Old 12-23-2017, 07:33 AM   #7
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Oh wait.....I think I missed something..is guitar pro also trying to run on ASIO drivers?

That would certainly be a problem unless you have a true multi client driver.

You would need to use a different driver in this case.
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Old 12-23-2017, 07:52 AM   #8
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Stella645, yes, Guitar Pro using UMC 404 as a midi output, alongside with programm Win XP synth. I'm currently on XP where I have no problems with Asio at all (one of the reasons I'm still using it), I'm just curious what's happening on Win 10 I'm considering to upgrade to.
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Old 12-23-2017, 02:31 PM   #9
Rick Settle
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Question UMC-404

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keeper View Post
Drumphil, Stella645, yes, I'm using Behringer's Asio driver right now, ASIO4ALL was just an example of how Win 7 behaves with Asio drivers, the way that I don't want Win 10 to beheve =) So, usually I'm using Reaper and Guitar Pro at the same time because I'm capturing many of my bass riff ideas that way. And I want my bass and note editor to sound from headphones. There's an option of direct monitorig on UMC 404, but it's very silent cuz it is a mix knob - fully left is direct, fully right is playback. So if I turn it fully left I won't b able to hear Guitar Pro anyway. And the bass will be heard only from left channel, which is not really good (it's annoying and not so good for your ears cuz that is unequal burden for them). That's why I'm putting bass through Reaper when writing my riffs. So yeah, that Banana or ReaRoute stuff may do a thing in this case, but I'll be glad to hear other options or somebody's personal expierence with Win 10 and Asio drivers.
I don't know why, but your UMC 404 must operate different than mine does. I use the phones jack to monitor also, but the phones knob only acts as a volume for the phones. The mix knob is a different knob that does act as a fader for In and PB.
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Old 12-23-2017, 03:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Settle View Post
I don't know why, but your UMC 404 must operate different than mine does. I use the phones jack to monitor also, but the phones knob only acts as a volume for the phones. The mix knob is a different knob that does act as a fader for In and PB.
That is exactly what all those knobs do. But try to turn Mix knob all the way left - you'll hear only input sounds and no playback. At least mine does that.
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Old 12-23-2017, 03:43 PM   #11
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Most ASIO drivers aren't multi-client. It's possible to make multi-client asio drivers, but few interfaces actually have them. That's not a windows xp vs windows 10 issue. It's down to the drivers. Also, it usually requires the applications to all be using the same sample rate.

Voicemeeter will let you run multiple asio apps and normal windows apps through one audio device. You even get mixing and routing too.


Another option in situations like this is to use the on board sound as the default windows audio device, and connect it's output to two channels on the behringer. So you have your guitar + two channels of on board sound entering the umc404, and then you make a monitor mix however you like in reaper.

This also gives you the best possible latency for real time monitoring of your live guitar playing through reaper, which is problematic when you start using applications like Voicemeeter.

Also lets you hear your guitar through both headphone channels which is a limitation of using the mix knob on the audio interface for monitoring.

I think that doing it that way would be the simplest and most practical way to do things without compromising the latency when monitoring live through reaper.

Last edited by drumphil; 12-23-2017 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 12-23-2017, 05:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keeper View Post
That is exactly what all those knobs do. But try to turn Mix knob all the way left - you'll hear only input sounds and no playback. At least mine does that.
I don't get why this is a problem? You use the knob to balance the input and playback level however you want.

There is apparently a stereo/mono switch for direct monitoring on this device so you don't have to hear your bass in left channel only.
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Old 12-23-2017, 08:22 PM   #13
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Drumphil, I know this is not about what OS is better, but the fact is that on XP I use only one audio interface and can hear everything. But you gave me a bunch of useful information, so if there are any problems after upgrade I have multiple options of what to do. Thanks much!

Stella 645, technically it's not a problem, but Guitar Pro goes to playback channel, and when Mix knob turned to monitoring only, obviously, there's no any playback. And when that knob is 12 o'clock, the signal from direct monitoring is quite silent. Well, I still can crank input signal up with one of the inputs knobs. And it seems that I forgot about mono swithcer (usally don't use it, cuz when mixing I toggle the mono in Reaper's master channel), should chek it out. Thanks as well!
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Old 12-23-2017, 10:28 PM   #14
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It's all good I'm just pointing out that the difference is caused by the way the drivers are written, not how the OS works. You can have multi client ASIO in XP or windows 10 if the drivers are written to do it, and that's up to the audio interface manufacturer.
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Old 12-26-2017, 08:47 AM   #15
Juan D'Fall
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I have win 10 pro 64 and the latest reaper. I have a Steinberg UR 242 interface. Both Reaper and media player will play at the same time. I, too, was under the impression that only one could use the interface at a time. I am only using default settings, so I don't know how it does it.
Jim
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Old 12-26-2017, 09:12 AM   #16
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Juan, thanks!
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Old 01-02-2018, 03:28 PM   #17
Geoff-h3o
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Default Haven't tried it myself

I suspect this may be a pain to set up but it looks like it might do what you want:
http://jackaudio.org/faq/jack_on_windows.html
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Old 01-02-2018, 04:19 PM   #18
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Quote:
Drumphil, I know this is not about what OS is better, but the fact is that on XP I use only one audio interface and can hear everything.
That's not an XP thing. Point the OS to the interface outs then all other apps to Sound Mapper or WaveOut (I forget which) which will handle the multi routing for you.

Ideally, you want a sound card who's onboard mixer allows you to route higher channel numbers to the main outs. this is the ideal situation so then you would do as above to handle all non DAW audio then point reaper to 3/4 and route that over to 1/2 in the sound card mixer. I've done it this way since Win98 starting around 1998 and at this point, if the SC can't supply a mixer with this routing, I simply won't buy it. That could be a fancy explanation for multi-client ASIO support minus my confirming but if so, I've had it for 20 years now making an interface not having it in 2018 a bit unacceptable.
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Old 01-03-2018, 02:49 AM   #19
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^^^^ THIS...
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