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Old 10-12-2019, 10:44 AM   #5201
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Originally Posted by rothchild View Post
Is there any sense of when folder diving and advanced navigation will come on to the menu?
Yup, haven't forgotten about it, it's next up after modifiers are sorted.
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Old 10-14-2019, 07:28 AM   #5202
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Originally Posted by tdc View Post
Hi Folks, new CSI user who is looking to move from the Avid walled garden to Reaper. Key to my workflow a function control surface, and so I am of course drawn to Geoff's CSI. At present I have an Avid S3 and Transport, and am trying to build a Reaper based solution. I suspect that the S3 will be sold and replaced by a 16-24 fader bank as it is not well supported via HUI / MCU. (the top 16 encoders are not addressable it seems)

I have created some surfaces using Lemur and its worked as expected, apart from data being dropped somewhere in Reaper/CSI. I have created a simple Patch that has a Fader and a button, and is successfully switching focus on selecting a new track. My Test Reaper session has only three tracks and one audio file so CPU is 1-2%. When I am recording automation I was noticing that the response was a little laggy at times and seemed to drop data.

To rule out Lemur and Wifi, I built a MaxMSP Patch that generates a sinusoidal ramp and spits this out at 14bit. CSI is happily receiving this via internal MIDI routing (so no Wifi) but the results are the same as the Lemur-Wifi input. Inconsistent data being received and recorded as you can see in the screenshot. I tried changing the 15hz rate up and down and this didnt remedy the inconsistency.



Any thoughts? Is this a byproduct of the various scripts that CSI needs or something else do you think? I should note that this machine is my performance machine and is usually running Ableton and MaxMSP with oodles of internal MIDI, and until Reaper/CSI, I have not seen this dropping data issue before.

Thanks for your thoughts, tdc.

MacOS 10.14.3 / MBP / Reaper 5.983 / CSI latest.

I've run tests on my own setup and now I realize why I don't like doing fast fader movements with MCU controllers in Reaper (or CSI which gets the same pitchbend data). I'd presumed midi controllers are no good for that, unlike ethernet-based controllers in Protools. I could mix dialogue without a compressor with the Procontrol's optical faders. Midi faders have always been slower but the data was never this bad in PT.

Reapers capture is somehow uneven and may need work or require better interpolation and perhaps thinning. I've posted about this in the bug report forum section here : https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=226074 .
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Old 10-14-2019, 07:51 AM   #5203
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Originally Posted by airon View Post
I've run tests on my own setup and now I realize why I don't like doing fast fader movements with MCU controllers in Reaper (or CSI which gets the same pitchbend data). I'd presumed midi controllers are no good for that, unlike ethernet-based controllers in Protools. I could mix dialogue without a compressor with the Procontrol's optical faders. Midi faders have always been slower but the data was never this bad in PT.

Reapers capture is somehow uneven and may need work or require better interpolation and perhaps thinning. I've posted about this in the bug report forum section here : https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=226074 .
Apparently it's not just CSI, or control surfaces in general, but is inherent in Reaper, do you also see this behaviour ?

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Originally Posted by tdc
Yes, I tried various modes. The freq was tried across many frequencies (0.001 hz to 10hz) to try and see if there was some aliasing occurring with an internal Reaper refresh rate or something like that, but there appeared to be no pattern, and the errors look randomly placed.

I also tried direct connection using Reaper, and not CSI and the behaviour was the same. Even using a mouse and the Mixer fader shows this behaviour so I am beginning to think its an inherent aspect of the design coupled with my (perhaps too fastidious) expectations.

Leaping back to my Pro Tools rig, all movements were recorded as I would expect, so perhaps I am just expecting too much.
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Old 10-14-2019, 09:22 AM   #5204
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The data in the session I put up indicates that moving the faders in the mixer is recorded with MUCH higher frequency.

That particular bad behaviour may me MacOS specific, since I'm on Windows 10 and have good data on my mouse-driven volume envelope recordings.

That session is here for anyone to inspect:
https://stash.reaper.fm/37319/MCU%20...automation.rpp

CSI is the exact same. Same data. So CSI is working just fine, but something is not working well enough right now in Reaper itself. That's what it looks like to me.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:44 AM   #5205
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Originally Posted by airon View Post
CSI is the exact same. Same data. So CSI is working just fine, but something is not working well enough right now in Reaper itself. That's what it looks like to me.
Here's a couple from me on Windows 10. The upper track in each case (ProTools/Reaper) is using the MCU fader (HUI on ProTools, CSI on Reaper). The lower track is moving the on screen fader with the mouse (well, trackball) Thinning is turned off in ProTools

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Old 10-15-2019, 04:11 PM   #5206
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Thanks for taking the time.

How fast are those moves ? I can't quite see the ruler. I did moves that equated to around one up/down move per second.

I have point reduction turned off in Reaper and usually turned to "Some" in Protools. I turned it off in Protools when I did the mouse move tests, which were pretty much like those in Reaper for me. PT 11.3.1 on Win10. I just didn't show them because I couldn't get the FP16 HUI mode working in PT.
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Old 10-15-2019, 06:30 PM   #5207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
Thanks for taking the time.

How fast are those moves ? I can't quite see the ruler. I did moves that equated to around one up/down move per second.

I have point reduction turned off in Reaper and usually turned to "Some" in Protools. I turned it off in Protools when I did the mouse move tests, which were pretty much like those in Reaper for me. PT 11.3.1 on Win10. I just didn't show them because I couldn't get the FP16 HUI mode working in PT.
Actually not that fast, the whole lot is ~ 30s. Should I do faster ones? Also, I think I may have had 'Reduce envelope point data' checked in Reaper. I'll check tomorrow. These were both done on Win10/ ProTools 12.7 and current Reaper.

I have to say the 'feel' of the HUI/PT combination is much better than Reaper in terms of the scaling of the physical fader matching what you see appear on the screen- although this is meaningless because you judge by what you hear, not what you see

I think we should probably check the real effect these points actually have on the level of some audio...

Reaper seems to accelerate dramatically above unity, but slows down at the bottom of the fader travel. HUI/PT seems to be more linear above unity, with no slowing at the bottom.

I did try messing with the options in the Reaper prefs briefly, with no improvement. It may well be that ProTools has a more sophisticated smoothing algo than Reaper, even when thinning is turned off.

I had a quick check with MIDI Monitor on OSX and the MCU definitely produces 14bit fader data. The values go from -8192 to +8192.
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Old 10-18-2019, 12:44 AM   #5208
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I'm starting to think Reaper should either up the capture rate or introduce more sophisticated interpolation to produce MORE data to keep it smooth.
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Old 10-20-2019, 01:09 PM   #5209
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Is the FX params auto write to ZoneRawFXFiles broken?

Doesn't seem to work here anymore, (even with ShowFXParams in LearnMode checked)
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Old 10-20-2019, 03:13 PM   #5210
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Is the FX params auto write to ZoneRawFXFiles broken?

Doesn't seem to work here anymore, (even with ShowFXParams in LearnMode checked)
It's changed a bit.

You now generate Raw FX files by generating a new ZoneFile with an FX focused.

Should we also put back generation when ShowFXParams is checked ?
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Old 10-20-2019, 03:54 PM   #5211
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It was handy for the configurator,
I did use the new file route which of course works, but I wouldn't want to need to be do too many that way.
Maybe even a button to create raw files of currently loaded fx.
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Old 10-20-2019, 05:43 PM   #5212
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Maybe even a button to create raw files of currently loaded fx.
+1
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Old 10-21-2019, 07:02 AM   #5213
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Here's some scripts I've been messing around with:

i) Show_track_receives.lua - this script shows the selected track and it's associated receives and hides all other tracks. Before it does this, it saves the current mixer 'visible' and 'selected' status in SWS snapshot#12.

ii) Return_from_receives.lua - this script re-loads the original mixer status (by recalling SWS snapshot#12) and then (should) scroll to the originally selected track.

I say 'should' because the on screen scrolling works on Mac, but not Windows and I can't seem to get the surfaces to scroll back automatically on either platform. The snapshot recalls correctly (the correct tracks are visible and the original track is selected) but the auto scroll won't work. Suggestions welcome

iii) Scroll_mixer_to_selected_track.lua - does what it says on the tin. This can be used to scroll the on screen mixer to the originally selected track, but won't force the surfaces to scroll (sometimes) What's irritating is this is exactly the same command that's at the end of the 'return-from-receives' script, where it doesn't work. Confused.

I think there's some potential here for navigation enhancements - having the receive track FX appear next to the send track makes adjustment of FX easy without having to scroll back and forth. The same would obviously apply to any send/receive arrangement.

Also the SWS snapshot system seems to work fine in lieu of the stack concept - it lets you store a mixer status, do some stuff, and then return to where you were initially.
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Old 10-21-2019, 10:13 AM   #5214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Yup, haven't forgotten about it, it's next up after modifiers are sorted.
Awesome, really looking forward to seeing it. I hope my small contribution will be of some use (in fact I just hope it made any sense at all!)
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Old Yesterday, 02:51 AM   #5215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freex View Post
It was handy for the configurator,
I did use the new file route which of course works, but I wouldn't want to need to be do too many that way.
Maybe even a button to create raw files of currently loaded fx.
A button to create raw files of currently loaded fx sounds like a good idea, but comes with considerations of its own.

If you had a large track count loaded with VSTi's you could be waiting a while...

So, a little more awkward, but simplest (design free and bug free) thing to do is put the old behaviour back -- if "Show Params when FX Inserted" is checked, Raw FX files are generated.

Is that too primitive ?
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Old Yesterday, 03:31 AM   #5216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
A button to create raw files of currently loaded fx sounds like a good idea, but comes with considerations of its own.

If you had a large track count loaded with VSTi's you could be waiting a while...

So, a little more awkward, but simplest (design free and bug free) thing to do is put the old behaviour back -- if "Show Params when FX Inserted" is checked, Raw FX files are generated.

Is that too primitive ?
If it works, it works.
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Old Yesterday, 10:30 AM   #5217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
A button to create raw files of currently loaded fx sounds like a good idea, but comes with considerations of its own.

If you had a large track count loaded with VSTi's you could be waiting a while...

So, a little more awkward, but simplest (design free and bug free) thing to do is put the old behaviour back -- if "Show Params when FX Inserted" is checked, Raw FX files are generated.

Is that too primitive ?
Old behaviour is fine How are the modifiers going?
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Old Yesterday, 04:33 PM   #5218
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sidebar: Do you know that Softube has a Console One Fader bank device they just released, and I swear they are have taken some queues from you, Geoff.

check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N5a3RBjNKo
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Old Today, 06:03 AM   #5219
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Old behaviour is fine How are the modifiers going?
Not -- busy putting roof overhead, food on table, that sort of stuff

Will get back to it soon...
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Old Today, 06:05 AM   #5220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post
sidebar: Do you know that Softube has a Console One Fader bank device they just released, and I swear they are have taken some queues from you, Geoff.

check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N5a3RBjNKo
Yeah, looks like a quality unit, as you would expect from Softube !

Haha on the queues -- flattered they thought there was something here good enough to lift, if that is the case
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Old Today, 01:05 PM   #5221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Not -- busy putting roof overhead, food on table, that sort of stuff

Will get back to it soon...
No worries Current version working smoothly here.
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Old Today, 01:38 PM   #5222
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curious: is there a way to control Monitoring FX from CSI? I normally work in Selected Track Nav, so obviously that won't work. And selecting a focused FX is not an option either, looking for a more static solution.
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Old Today, 01:39 PM   #5223
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Yeah, looks like a quality unit, as you would expect from Softube !

Haha on the queues -- flattered they thought there was something here good enough to lift, if that is the case
dude there's tons of good stuff here! most notable that they showcased was the pan knob: push for width control.
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