Old 10-01-2014, 11:13 AM   #1
manley
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Default mixdown using hardware console & Reaper

Can anyone give me a heads up here as im kinda stuck

Im using an Allen & heath gsr-24 console & not sure how to best set up Reapers routing for mixdown & mastering

Also im not sure whether to route via Reapers Master/parent send OR the hardware outputs ive been told it's best to turn Master / parent off

for mixdown ive been routing via the console & back into a stereo ch in Reaper with OK results

The problem im finding is that im pegging meters in the analogue chain & anything i place on Reapers Master bus within the project effects the analogue meters in a bad way unless i turn down the mix to a very low level

My mixing levels are not over loud OR ridiculous

Im sure this is just a routing issue that im not getting to grips with

Anyone that can help me here would be much appreciated

Last edited by manley; 10-01-2014 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:26 PM   #2
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What's your interface?
Do send out buses only,
or every individual track?

I guess you sum on your analog board?
Disabling parent send for every track you send out makes sense.
And those will be routed to pairs of your interface, 16ch needed for 8 stereo buses out.
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:48 PM   #3
manley
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Originally Posted by G-Sun View Post
What's your interface?
Do send out buses only,
or every individual track?

I guess you sum on your analog board?
Disabling parent send for every track you send out makes sense.
And those will be routed to pairs of your interface, 16ch needed for 8 stereo buses out.
Interface meaning console

Allen & heath gsr-24 great hybrid console can't get to grips with Reapers routing though especially for Mastering

everything goes through the console either master buss or valve buss
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:34 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by manley View Post
Interface meaning console

Allen & heath gsr-24 great hybrid console can't get to grips with Reapers routing though especially for Mastering

everything goes through the console either master buss or valve buss
Mastering - I would send stereo track hardware out into the console (Master/Parent send unchecked) and then record the console Mains back into Reaper while only monitoring this single track.
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:45 PM   #5
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Hello Manley, I've not read the manual for that console, but I reckon the levels will be something like -20 to -16 dB FSD for 0dB on its channels. That might seem low, but it's actually normal levels and you'll actually need some gain on your monitoring to bring that up to a decent sound level.

Given me a little while and I can get on the web and look at the manual for you, but I bet I'm in the ball park.

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Old 10-01-2014, 01:54 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by planetnine View Post
Hello Manley, I've not read the manual for that console, but I reckon the levels will be something like -20 to -16 dB FSD for 0dB on its channels. That might seem low, but it's actually normal levels and you'll actually need some gain on your monitoring to bring that up to a decent sound level.

Given me a little while and I can get on the web and look at the manual for you, but I bet I'm in the ball park.

>
Hi Nathan

Great!! i appreciate that once i get the basic setup i'll be fine,at the moment im going around in circles

wanted to mention that ive been routing my mix through the valve channel on the console with the valve knobs off reason being if i go via the master bus with vu the meters are slamming can O worms & headaches

im waiting for a response from heath regarding another issue but that's another story LOL

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Old 10-01-2014, 11:38 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by manley View Post
Interface meaning console

Allen & heath gsr-24 great hybrid console can't get to grips with Reapers routing though especially for Mastering

everything goes through the console either master buss or valve buss
Ok, I see. I'm not familiar with such a pro setup
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Old 10-01-2014, 11:45 PM   #8
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A picture of your Routing Matrix is always helpful.

And your actual send levels in dbfs.
Then it's a matter of gain-calibration.
Your analogue out/inn 0dbvu should have an an equal in dbfs digital, stated in the manual.
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manley View Post
The problem im finding is that im pegging meters in the analogue chain & anything i place on Reapers Master bus within the project effects the analogue meters in a bad way unless i turn down the mix to a very low level

My mixing levels are not over loud OR ridiculous
I do it that way:
- I set up folder tracks (with icons/colour) with the respective hardware outputs - NO master/parent send of course
- I then just drag the tracks that I want to route to e.g. console channel 5-6 into the folder track

I don't understand why levels are culminating that much. What is a "non-ridicoulous" level for you? And what is a "very low level"?

EDIT: why do you place anything at all on Reapers MASTER bus??? Your master is the console's stereo buss!?!?
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:43 PM   #10
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I do it that way:
- I set up folder tracks (with icons/colour) with the respective hardware outputs - NO master/parent send of course
- I then just drag the tracks that I want to route to e.g. console channel 5-6 into the folder track

I don't understand why levels are culminating that much. What is a "non-ridicoulous" level for you? And what is a "very low level"?

EDIT: "why do you place anything at all on Reapers MASTER bus??? Your master is the console's stereo buss!?!?"
Ive been mixing in the daw & then routing out to the console during mixdown
I have the Klanghelm vumt meter at -18dbfs for mix levels

Ive then summed the mix through the console & back into Reaper with OK results

Ive recently taken up a mastering course which is great BUT can't work out how id process the mix in the daw & master it & configure this in Reaper
I want to use plugins during the mastering process

"why do you place anything at all on Reapers MASTER bus???"

This was during Mastering & experimenting

Im not claiming to be any sort of expert here just looking for help

Im experimenting & getting to grips with everything at the moment

Last edited by manley; 10-01-2014 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:53 PM   #11
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OK - how hot is the input gain on the console channels? When I am monitoring a close-to-0dbFS limited master, I turn down my gain pots to the minimum. That way the channels won't clip.

If this is what you mean.
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:58 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by beingmf View Post
OK - how hot is the input gain on the console channels? When I am monitoring a close-to-0dbFS limited master, I turn down my gain pots to the minimum. That way the channels won't clip.

If this is what you mean.
Hi

Sorry i don't follow
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:29 PM   #13
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I use my 32 channel desk for analog summing and mixdown. I can tell you what I do but I will say that this is a very personal issue based on one's personal workflow.

I route all audio OUT of the Reaper via the Hardware Outs with the Master/Parent send unchecked on the channels that are hardware out. This allows me to use the console for EQ, Panning, and Summing, but still utilize Reaper for automation. The way that I have my system setup, I route out to desk channels 1-28. Those feed the stereo mains on the console, which feeds an additional channel on the console. This channel is used as an INPUT in Reaper which is monitored and sends to the Master/Parent to the Reaper Master. So on Mixdown, I record the incoming channel as a stereo track.

(I enjoy the opportunity use hardware and software with this arrangement. Some will argue about the hit that I take on conversion. I take that hit gladly because I feel that the benefits of summing and recall abilities outweigh the issue. That's my opinion though.)

Let's say that I have lead vocals, I would uncheck the Master/Parent and send it hardware out to Channel 1.

If I have a group of instruments that I want to buss togther, you can go about it in a variety of ways. I use this setup on drums:
Kick, Snare, Toms, OH, etc... hardware outs to lay across the desk. I do not uncheck the Master/Parent send. Then I take the DRUM buss in Reaper and send it hardware out and uncheck THAT Master/Parent send.

Another option would be to send them to the desk and THEN route the drums to a desk buss. Whatever you need for your project.

You mentioned your gain structure... this is CRITICAL when going in and out of hardware. I check EVERY channel with a tone to line up Reaper's -18dBfs to the hardware 0VU. When mixing, I set my faders to unity and use the Reaper faders to control the output.

I'm not sure what you mean by: "anything i place on Reapers Master bus within the project effects the analogue meters in a bad way unless i turn down the mix to a very low level" Could you explain more?

In my setup above, the only thing hitting the Reaper Master is the single Stereo track from the desk. If I need to make an adjustment to hit -18dBfs on the Reaper Master in order to use some emulation plugins at appropriate levels.

Keep asking questions. I love using Reaper this way.
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:52 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by jpanderson80 View Post




I'm not sure what you mean by: "anything i place on Reapers Master bus within the project effects the analogue meters in a bad way unless i turn down the mix to a very low level" Could you explain more?



Keep asking questions. I love using Reaper this way.
Hi This was happening during my mastering experimenting course i had the parent / send checked & any plugin on the mst bus caused the analogue mast bus to clip hence my confusion as to how id do this

Im kinda pretty confused with it all
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Old 10-01-2014, 02:39 PM   #15
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Hi This was happening during my mastering experimenting course i had the parent / send checked & any plugin on the mst bus caused the analogue mast bus to clip hence my confusion as to how id do this

Im kinda pretty confused with it all
So, you are inserting a plugin on the REAPER Master... then the audio is routed out to your console on a channel, say 1-2. And Console Channels 1 & 2, are still routed to the Console Master which is getting slammed. Is that correct?

If so... you are so close to a solution! If the above is correct try this: turn the Reaper MASTER hardware output down to -18dBfs (or whatever you need for your console specs). This will drive Console channels 1 & 2 to 0vu and THEN it will push your Console Mains into the sweet spot at unity as well.
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Old 10-01-2014, 02:54 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by jpanderson80 View Post
So, you are inserting a plugin on the REAPER Master... then the audio is routed out to your console on a channel, say 1-2. And Console Channels 1 & 2, are still routed to the Console Master which is getting slammed. Is that correct?

If so... you are so close to a solution! If the above is correct try this: turn the Reaper MASTER hardware output down to -18dBfs (or whatever you need for your console specs). This will drive Console channels 1 & 2 to 0vu and THEN it will push your Console Mains into the sweet spot at unity as well.
Hi

regarding Mastering i had the stereo mix in reaper which was routed out to the console master buss ch 29/30
Also i had vst plugins on the master bus which made the analogue channel unhappy

I returned the stereo mix back into reaper & noticed clipping noise

so i guess im saying im trying to master my mix which makes the analogue ch unhappy but i need to raise the level to get a decent master but im not sure how configure this yet

Alot of head scratching

Last edited by manley; 10-01-2014 at 03:00 PM.
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Old 10-02-2014, 07:13 AM   #17
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Hi

regarding Mastering i had the stereo mix in reaper which was routed out to the console master buss ch 29/30
Also i had vst plugins on the master bus which made the analogue channel unhappy

I returned the stereo mix back into reaper & noticed clipping noise

so i guess im saying im trying to master my mix which makes the analogue ch unhappy but i need to raise the level to get a decent master but im not sure how configure this yet

Alot of head scratching
From what I can tell, your issues are associated with gain staging. The Reaper channel hitting at -18dBfs is roughly equal to 0dBvu on your console. So any plugins that you have on your channel that boost the signal to just under zero dBfs inside Reaper would be likely beyond what the console likes to see. You'll have to set up the send level to take this into consideration.

If you are using hardware in your mastering chain, then the gain staging is worth the battle. If you are only using plugins in your mastering chain, then I recommend staying ITB for the process.
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