Old 10-27-2012, 10:23 AM   #121
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left handed here too... no macs. lol... is this even happening?
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Old 10-27-2012, 10:29 AM   #122
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No kidding.

Because Core Audio means I never have to install drivers or wonder if driver X is compatible with system update Y. Because it is based on BSD, so when I do need to do something bizzare, I can drop to a real shell and access bash, Perl, awk, sed, and all my other favorite tools without having to deal with cygwin or dual boot or some other bolt on hack that simulates the same thing.

Excellent! The single biggest objection I ever had to using a Mac was the closed nature of the OS.

I was an OS9/OSK (the Microware product) nerd decades ago, back when Sage was a 4gl database and not an acounting package and always felt McOS was never more than a hop skip and a jump away from being useable by non-consumer types. Now it apparently is. I should take more notice.

Maybe my next computer WILL be a Mac if they are still making desktops, or failing that a Hackintosh looms, it seems.
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Old 10-27-2012, 10:32 AM   #123
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Well I have. It's particularly bad for major version upgrades. And I've had to install various drivers for every single USB attachment I've ever picked up for my Win boxes as if the "U" in USB stood for something other than "Universal."

Core Audio has been plug and play for everything, without exception. In the time it used to take me to "install drivers" and ensure I've got the right patch level on my Windows machines, I'm recording and making music on the Mac.
FWIW my daughter got a free MacBook because of her dyslexia, complete with full Apple support.
She followed their advice and bought an upgrade to the OS which promptly killed off 90% of her applications software.
Took tech support a day of wrassling to get it all back to normal.
So not EVERYTHING in the orchard is always rosy.
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Old 10-27-2012, 06:01 PM   #124
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Well my experience has been after 10+ years of PCs - first DOS > Windows >OS2> Windows>Linux.
I got a Mac 15-16 mnths ago, G5 based powerbook - I got especially to run some MOTU software that was alleged to run on Mac's but not Windows (turned out to be wrong too - the software in question needed the pre-OSX Mac OS).

I was impressed with the ease of use of it, so earlier this year when I was looking at buying a dedicated sound computer I went for a 'factory refurbished' iMac - the price saving from the 'new' price meant that it was a lot closer to what you'd pay for a similarly equipped PC and I had the confidence that the firewire would would.
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:45 AM   #125
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I'm impressed that you found a G5 Powerbook! Was this one of the water cooled models?
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Old 11-23-2012, 07:13 AM   #126
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I’m not that knowledgable in the area of pricing, but I believe you can definitely build a state-of-the-art desktop PC for much less than something made by Apple. If I were to ever build a desktop, I would go PC all the way. For laptops however, I’m Apple all the way. For the time being, at least.
Maybe true once. But the MAC Mini brand has really made them more than affordable to everyone.

I use the "lowest" spec mini but I upgraded to 8GB of ram and it never drops in recording. It cost me £360 altogether. Of course I cheat and I also boot it up in Windows 7 64Bit for that software that I need and Apple provide all the native drivers to run as a Windows driven machine.

Though Apple have produced a 12 core beast! Using 4 x Intel XEONS running four cores each and can use up to 128GB of memory. Though starts off at $3000!
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Old 11-23-2012, 07:21 AM   #127
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They were just once far more reliable and you could be sure of getting pretty much the same level of performance and result each time you used them. That probably wasn't true of the PC running Windows.

BUT, the Windows operating system has grown a lot, as have machine specs, so you can get great and equal results these days in Windows.

Cost wise? This isn't true anymore (unless your comparing super machines), the MAC is exceptionally affordable if you go for something like a MAC mini which starts at around £300 for a specification that easily meets the recording I do. And doesn't make a sound, which I'm grateful for.

At work, two of our developers bought MAC minis and installed Windows 7 on them because the specification was better that an equally spec'd PC.
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Old 11-23-2012, 07:30 AM   #128
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[QUOTE=gregmartin64;1074562]They were just once far more reliable and you could be sure of getting pretty much the same level of performance and result each time you used them. That probably wasn't true of the PC running Windows.

Not unless you're running BlowTools Nah Seriously not for me since I'm too dependent on my PC for all our Media Productions, then there's the maintenance, I'm simply too old to start over, oh and there's APPLE, which I'll never forgive nor forget. But then again I even survived VISTA?! Talk about DIE Hard.. But wait, what are you all sitting around here for? Go and eat some Turky, or something
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:16 AM   #129
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[QUOTE=BorsingPhoto;1074566]
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Originally Posted by gregmartin64 View Post
They were just once far more reliable and you could be sure of getting pretty much the same level of performance and result each time you used them. That probably wasn't true of the PC running Windows.

Not unless you're running BlowTools Nah Seriously not for me since I'm too dependent on my PC for all our Media Productions, then there's the maintenance, I'm simply too old to start over, oh and there's APPLE, which I'll never forgive nor forget. But then again I even survived VISTA?! Talk about DIE Hard.. But wait, what are you all sitting around here for? Go and eat some Turky, or something
I'm sort of the same, because I still need to have my Mac MINI have a boot partition for Windows 7 for MS Access, and for my Game Development tools. Anyway from me in England, I hope all my American cousins are having and will have a great and safe Thanks Giving! Pass me some Turkey :-0
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:51 AM   #130
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[QUOTE=gregmartin64;1074585]
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I'm sort of the same, because I still need to have my Mac MINI have a boot partition for Windows 7 for MS Access, and for my Game Development tools. Anyway from me in England, I hope all my American cousins are having and will have a great and safe Thanks Giving! Pass me some Turkey :-0
Swedish here, remember us Vikings? , but I'm also a US citizen these days. Ah yes, those sweet O'l memories of my first Commodore VIC 20, then one day my first PC, a 6MHz 64K XT, and Apple's fuzz&Buzz (we had a Lund's University student neighbor back when, Bragging about "his" new free MAC, come to think of it, he's probably still a student and how you couldn't even get a Disc defrag utility for "your" Mac, cost of the then "Superior" mac, etc, etc. Makes me thinking about throwing up the Crab cakes and Sweet Potatoes we ate last night

Never forget, give up, and never surrender.. or, "it's not my fault Emund the Old helped introduce Christianity to Sweden"
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Old 11-23-2012, 07:30 PM   #131
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The mac is popular because Apple offers amazing Black Friday discounts...

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Old 11-23-2012, 08:33 PM   #132
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Oh had I but known.
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:55 PM   #133
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Hahaha
It's just amazing watching these fools line up to pay inflated prices. And they think they are saving money! Apparently never heard of the internet.
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Old 11-24-2012, 06:51 PM   #134
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The mac is popular because Apple offers amazing Black Friday discounts...

I know, I'm just an incorruptible windows user. Buying into Mac is not an option for us since we would have to start over re-purchasing all 3D, photo, video, audio, not to mention all other maintenance tools and other applications we use successfully. Nah Mac would at best replace one set of issues with a myriad of others in my case, not to mention the incredible cost that this concept would inflict on my business / clients. Cancel Christmas, declare the tooth-fairy a taxation hazard and tell all those BlowTools users out there, their so called Industry standard (Black Friday indeed ) doesn't even begin to compare with Reaper at least on a windows 64 bit system. Hooah!! and a happy New Year to Cookos and all their fans, HOORAY for Reaper!! - Sir Carl
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:51 AM   #135
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I have both a Mac laptop and a Windows laptop, and I love both of them equally...though OS X doesn't have Media Monkey.
How very true, I previously made a post mentioning a "Lunda" (Swedish university city) student neighbor of mine who was so deliriously excited bout his new free (student again) Mac that my most profound memory of him was that the guy himself indeed was a Media monkey and most likely still going through new generations of non backwards compatible Mac's since I expect him to still be a student
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Old 11-25-2012, 02:22 PM   #136
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Media Monkey runs in OSX with Wine.
See, with a Mac you have more software choices and you can still run any windows app. You don't need to install windows but you could do that too if you wanted.
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Old 11-25-2012, 02:39 PM   #137
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Media Monkey runs in OSX with Wine.
See, with a Mac you have more software choices and you can still run any windows app. You don't need to install windows but you could do that too if you wanted.
With windows 8 opinions on here being as positive as they are I still insist on staying with my PC workstation and Reaper, besides I'd be whining like a little worm, sitting in front of the mighty Apple, hated getting MAC support questions when I worked on Falk Care support many years ago (man I'm getting old ). Also Im becoming rather intrigued with Behringers smart production move lately (X-32 etc)- The Behringer Firepower FCA1616 - 16x16 USB/FireWire Audio/MIDI Interface with ADAT together with the PreSonus FaderPort and Behringers B1030A 5.25" 75W Active 2-Way Studio Monitors with Linkwitz-Riley Crossovers seems a better choice than M-Audios Projectmix and M-Audio BX5 D2 Active 70W 5" 2-Way Studio Monitor Speakers. I suspect that the Behringer monitors are slightly flatter than the M-Audio monitors but I have yet to listen to those Behringer monitors, perhaps there's someone here that has more input?

Some of the stuff I played around with MusicMaker Premium MX/SampliNude before I became dead Serious and registered Reaper.. Can't wait until I release my new Reapertoire
http://soundcloud.com/borsingphoto-com/aquacoustic

Steady as she goes Sir Carl, X-Mas is almost here
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:52 AM   #138
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I just read an article about car reliability and remembered that someone here made the analogy Mercedes = Mac, Asiatic cars = PC. Well, here is the list of the most and least reliable cars for you:
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/news...reliable%20car
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:06 AM   #139
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Mercedes (Mac) = Very desirable, over-priced, does what it's meant to.

Asiatic car (PC) = Utilitarian, inexpensive, does what it's meant to.

Horses for courses etc.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:27 AM   #140
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Mercedes (Mac) = Very desirable, over-priced, does what it's meant to.

Asiatic car (PC) = Utilitarian, inexpensive, does what it's meant to.

Horses for courses etc.
The total ownership and running costs of my MacBook, are now down to pennies a day..

BobM.

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Old 11-27-2012, 03:56 PM   #141
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I just read an article about car reliability and remembered that someone here made the analogy Mercedes = Mac, Asiatic cars = PC. Well, here is the list of the most and least reliable cars for you:
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/news...reliable%20car
Who me? I'll answer that.. I own a 2007 VW EOS 2.0-T, which is pretty much controlled by a inboard computer and not Two months has gone by without some light popping up in the dashboard telling me never to buy German engineering ever again (see where I'm going with this? ). I love driving this car, I mean in flat Florida I got either 35 mpg's or around 200 HP's, I bought it after my first test drive because I knew the transmission and engine was good. If I'm forced to buy another car it will be a used one, one that has easy access to spark plugs etc, and doesn't need a computer to run, or for the horn to work, and perhaps a big trunk in case my wife decides to become a "back seat driver" .
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:16 PM   #142
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If I'm forced to buy another car it will be a used one, one that has easy access to spark plugs etc, and doesn't need a computer to run, or for the horn to work .
Then I would suggest a 1993 Volvo 240. ;-) That is probably about as far back you need to go to get rid of the computer. And even those do have a little one-chip computer, for the distribution box or something.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:27 PM   #143
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Then I would suggest a 1993 Volvo 240. ;-) That is probably about as far back you need to go to get rid of the computer. And even those do have a little one-chip computer, for the distribution box or something.
I know all about Volvo since I'm Swedish had Two Volvo's and One Saab 900 EMS, both gas hogs, otherwise good cars. NNah I was thinking more in the lines of an older American car, besides if that ever comes up I will be too old for a sports car
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:57 PM   #144
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Two swedes talking English with each other about Swedish cars in a discussion about Macs. What a strange world we live in.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:20 PM   #145
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Two swedes talking English with each other about Swedish cars in a discussion about Macs. What a strange world we live in.
I agree, Insane might be a better word for it though, but what do I know I'm just an o'l Swedish fart, talking English with another Swede about Swedish cars in a discussion about Macs, perhaps my previous vehicle might be more suitable, a Japanese Suzuki Hayabusa 1300? We should be talking about Reaper, music and instruments though, Which reminds me I just ordered my first pair of M-Audio BX5 D2's (need Three pairs and the M-Audio SBX10 240W 10" Active Subwoofer as well) and a PreSonus FaderPort. I was thinking of the Projectmix I/O, but decides to wait for the Behringer Firepower FCA1616 instead
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:38 PM   #146
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Two Swedes who started with a Vic-20 even
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:50 PM   #147
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Two Swedes who started with a Vic-20 even
Right, man I'd rather forget.. I never purchased the Vic 20 came in contact with it during a Basic course. My first was the C-64, then the C-128, C-128-D, skipped the Amiga for my first XT, 128 (130?), 256, 486 later "upgraded" with a 486/Pentium CPU. Now I'm on a still modest HP410-y AMD X6, 16GB RAM, fire-wire/USB3 cards and loving it a bit better, time for the Win 8 upgrade

Reaper is even capable of multi-track recording (well 1 track at a time ) on my $250 Acer Netbook (2GB RAM from Walmart )
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:08 AM   #148
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The popularity must be something to do with the shape of the apple itself. Seems to inspire an irrational elitist fanaticism in the user.
This is exactly the mentality that turned me off to Apple for so long.

I've used mostly PCs because I like to tinker and customize. Finally got the chance to do the Apple thing at work though. I set up a video production studio with a Mac Pro, dual 27" Cinema displays, etc. I have to say that was a nice piece of kit. The Apple Cinema Display is a dream to work with!

But all this crap about superior Apple reliability is just not true in my experience. I had regular crashes, lockups, and spinning beach balls. My experience was similar to my work on custom built PCs. It was a good system but I'm just glad I didn't have to pay for it. I could have built several Windows boxes for what we spent on that setup.

Bottom line: use what you want to use and can afford. The performance and feature gap has greatly changed in recent years.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:38 AM   #149
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Contrary to popular belief the majority of Mac users are aware of the costs involved with purchasing a PC vs Mac. You see we haven't been fooled by bright lights and shiny things, and have not been conned into something we were not fully aware of. We are consumers and are quite capable of reading and using the internet. It is a conscious decision and deliberate action that was taken after weighing the pros and cons of each and our own needs. Or perhaps out of necessity. When PT LE was released it was initially only available for the Mac with the Mbox so I switched and have been using Mac since.

Also many Mac users have a great deal of experience using both PC and Mac platforms. Personally I've been using computers at home since the PET. So I am quite familiar with Mac and Windows platforms. Many Mac users are also aware of the cost of upgrades/repairs directly from Apple vs aftermarket parts. That said Apple is going in a direction with Macbook and iMac that make it virtually impossible to DIY upgrade/repair your system, so in the future I can see going back to PC because of that. You see we are aware of such things

Mac stability isn't due to the "distortion reality field" or whatever they call it, it comes from running software are a finite number of hardware configurations.... nothing more. If PCs were running on limited hardware configurations it would likely have the same stability. Personally I never had a lot of stability issues with PCs but I haven't used one since Win 98 2nd ed and I quite like OS X.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:35 AM   #150
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But all this crap about superior Apple reliability is just not true in my experience. I had regular crashes, lockups, and spinning beach balls. My experience was similar to my work on custom built PCs.

------------------------

Using a Computer involves far more than simply being able to use a few applications, I'd be as lost and penniless on a Mac (never on a PC), As I would being "forced to" use "BlowTools/SampliNude", which still today is a joke in terms of power and versatility I understand why PT's called the industry standard (superstition started by industry "old timers" growing increasingly tired of rusty old/expensive analog equipment etc), but personally I will never use some J-Ware that "force potential" clients to purchase a useless Dongle for $60 just to check it out, and in the case of ST, crashes every 15 minutes.. "facilis: facile ire" - SirCarls Evil Twin..
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:38 PM   #151
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But all this crap about superior Apple reliability is just not true in my experience. I had regular crashes, lockups, and spinning beach balls. My experience was similar to my work on custom built PCs.
Very true. I'll go as far as to say that I experienced more spinning wheels on various Macs than I have crashed on both my Win7 laptop and PC. Win7 has proven to be more stable as any iOS I've used.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:06 AM   #152
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There's two separate questions there: Hardware and software reliability.

For the most part, I've had excellent luck with Apple's hardware reliability -- one or two exceptions (the GeForce 8600 macbook pros stand out), but by and large, mostly the hardware runs fine for a very long time.

Software-wise... I have pretty good luck with it most of the time. A fair amount of that may just be that I'm more used to the Unix environment, so I know what I'm looking for.

In any event, I use them because I spend less time dealing with antivirus software and Windows registry keys, and more time running the compiler and my apps. There's a fair amount of personal taste to it, but... I do note that there's a whole lot of reflexive assertion that Macs aren't really programmer-friendly, and quite simply, that was arguably true under OS 9, but it's never been true under OS X.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:22 AM   #153
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Why is mac so popular? - You tell me and I'm gonna be rich.

... really apple - or lets better say steve jobs, because we all known where apple was going at the times he was not with apple - has somewhat managed to create an unreasonable cult around their products. As already explained there is nothing technically special about macs, except maybe their visuals which jobs was really keen on.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:49 AM   #154
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Why is mac so popular? - You tell me and I'm gonna be rich.

... really apple - or lets better say steve jobs, because we all known where apple was going at the times he was not with apple - has somewhat managed to create an unreasonable cult around their products. As already explained there is nothing technically special about macs, except maybe their visuals which jobs was really keen on.
There is no "unreasonable cult". It's user experience and preference. People are not blindly going out and buying products just because. This is so stupid that it's beyond all rationale. This is taken from an OS X review on Ars Technica website that sums things up.

"Three decades ago, the personal computer industry was built on the backs of technology enthusiasts. Every product, every ad was created to please us. No longer. Technology must now work for everyone, not just 'computing enthusiasts."

Apple does this very well.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:54 AM   #155
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This thread has gone way off topic. It's "why is mac so popular", and not "why do a lot of Reaper users hate it"..
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:16 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by UberBird View Post
There is no "unreasonable cult".
So we agree to disagree then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfjrbUtk7BI
That's OK.

EDIT: Just to make this clear. I don't hate Macs. Though the only reason I see for it being more "popular" is the "cult", which might be caused by user experience, preference or whatever.
Anyway if anyone has the answer to why they are popular please tell me so I can become rich as well. Because to me they are just computers like all other computers.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:22 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by mad demon View Post
So we agree to disagree then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfjrbUtk7BI
That's OK.

EDIT: Just to make this clear. I don't hate Macs. Though the only reason I see for it being more "popular" is the "cult", which might be caused by user experience, preference or whatever.
Anyway if anyone has the answer to why they are popular please tell me so I can become rich as well. Because to me they are just computers like all other computers.
Back under the bridge troll
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:09 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by mad demon View Post
Though the only reason I see for it being more "popular" is the "cult", which might be caused by user experience, preference or whatever.
I don't think a user experience creates a cult. It creates an user base.

Quote:
Anyway if anyone has the answer to why they are popular please tell me so I can become rich as well.
The basis on it are pretty simple actually. First create a family of devices that are more easy, fun and less troublesome to use. Then make them look good, price them somewhat reasonably and market them well so people want to buy them.

It's no secret that Apple is a commercial company, and as in todays society, their success is measured by income. Their one major goal is to make money. What makes them different is that they think their products and the whole user experience through. Yes, Apple is scary good at marketing, especially to US people. But they are already having a hard time building some of the products fast enough, so the price is right.

Quote:
Because to me they are just computers like all other computers.
A lot of people seem to be a lot more picky than you.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:50 AM   #159
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Every now and then I peruse some of the windows help threads I stumble across around here. They usually leave my jaw hanging open. There are enough technical challenges with computers and digital audio without throwing in untested hardware configurations and having to manually rewrite half of your OS to get things mostly working.

There's no doubt that there is a lot you can do with a windows running system these days. Windows has come a long way... That's not right. Windows users have come a long way in forging working systems. I'm impressed with some of the level of workarounds I see people coming up with but I'd rather see that effort directed towards audio endeavors.

I think that the couple hundred dollars you might save on the hardware is more than offset by the extra setup work, restricted OS and fewer software choices.

I do agree that this was a much easier argument a few years ago when you could not make things work in windows no matter what you tried.

The problem I see now is that apple is drunk with their consumer gadget sales. They released no pro computers this last year. Worrisome...
If apple stops, I'll be looking to the linux community I think.
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:25 PM   #160
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serr, many times that can be explained by the fact that a large number of beginners will end up starting on windows
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