Old 10-07-2014, 02:58 AM   #41
manley
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I sent a reply to your PM -should explain how you monitor, render, and the difference between them.

Personally I'd set REAPER's outputs to 31&32 and then save that as a default template -if I wanted any special routing, I'd do it on a track basis using ReaInsert or directly with sends -unhooking any REAPER tracks from its master buss as necessary.


>
Yep got that Thanks Nathan!
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Old 10-07-2014, 06:33 AM   #42
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Get familiar with that desk's routing and your gain-staging first and mix ITB. You can try the more ambitious tasks when you're more confident -you've got a lot to absorb Sean
It isa lot to absorb and learn! Good words, Nathan. I feel as though I'm continually learning new things. With proper gain staging, one will have a rock solid foundation on which to build. It does require time, experimentation with how you want to establish a workflow, and experience.

Don't give up!
My opinion of analog summing is positive from sonic and workflow perspectives. Put in your time and enjoy playing!
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Old 10-07-2014, 06:46 AM   #43
manley
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It isa lot to absorb and learn! Good words, Nathan. I feel as though I'm continually learning new things. With proper gain staging, one will have a rock solid foundation on which to build. It does require time, experimentation with how you want to establish a workflow, and experience.

Don't give up!
My opinion of analog summing is positive from sonic and workflow perspectives. Put in your time and enjoy playing!
With help from you guys ive got the ITB rendering sorted NOW i see what you were saying JP about just monitoring via the console & rendering ITB

learning this stuff is sometimes like being hit on the head with a mental sledgehammer!

It seems small gaps in my knowledge have made things difficult

Still not too sure about analogue summing though i'd like to have that sorted

Last edited by manley; 10-07-2014 at 06:57 AM.
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Old 10-07-2014, 07:07 AM   #44
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For that, you will need to unhook each channel or group to be mixed from its "master/parent send" and add a pre or post fader hardware send to the desk channel you want it on. Decide whether you want the desk's EQ and fader involved and set routing buttons accordingly, and route desk master out back to a stereo track in REAPER to record. Obviously there will be a checklist of gainstaging before you're happy, but in essence that's it.


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Old 10-09-2014, 04:39 AM   #45
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Got the offline render done & dusted

What's the benefits of doing an online render as opposed to offline with my console?

What's the best method & what can i do offline v online ?


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Old 10-09-2014, 04:58 AM   #46
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Offline render just crunches out the numbers and creates your mix ITB, no outputs or inputs are used -ie REAPER goes offline while it does the render (and is usually much faster than real time).

Online render sends signals to hardware outputs and uses any monitored hardware inputs while it is creating the mix. This way any outboard effects or desk EQ can be used. It is done in real time and REAPER is online during the process (just like normal playback or record).

Benefits of online are you can use ouboard or do analogue summing. Disadvantage is it is in real time (think about long recordings like a live gig).

The best method? That's up to you. I prefer working in the box and offline renders because of the type of work I do (which often involves CDs or long mp3 client mixes) I used to use outboard reverb, but now use Valhallah plugins -so almost exclusively ITB.



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Last edited by planetnine; 10-09-2014 at 05:09 AM.
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Old 10-09-2014, 05:16 AM   #47
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Offline render just crunches out the numbers and creates your mix ITB, no outputs or inputs are used -ie REAPER goes offline while it does the render (and is usually much faster than real time).

Online render sends signals to hardware outputs and uses any monitored hardware inputs while it is creating the mix. This way any outboard effects or desk EQ can be used. It is done in real time and REAPER is online during the process (just like normal playback or record).

Benefits of online are you can use ouboard or do analogue summing. Disadvantage is it is in real time (think about long recordings like a live gig).

The best method? That's up to you. I prefer working in the box and offline renders because of the type of work I do (which often involves CDs or long mp3 client mixes) I used to use outboard reverb, but now use Valhallah plugins -so almost exclusively ITB.



>

Ok i see

As im understanding this for an online render i'd send the stereo track outputs to the console correct?

I also returned that trk into reaper (input valve ch)

When i render online im getting zero signal though & don't know why using this method unless im way off track & doinf this wrong..

Im cool with offline rendering but want to grasp online too ya see & bring myself out of the dark ages LOL
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Old 10-09-2014, 06:42 AM   #48
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Ok i see

As im understanding this for an online render i'd send the stereo track outputs to the console correct?

I also returned that trk into reaper (input valve ch)

When i render online im getting zero signal though & don't know why using this method unless im way off track & doinf this wrong..

Im cool with offline rendering but want to grasp online too ya see & bring myself out of the dark ages LOL


If your online render isn't working, make sure the GSR's signal is getting back to REAPER. Just becuse you can hear it at the desk output doesn't mean it's returning to the DAW.

Depends what you are wanting to achieve Sean. Performing an online render is done to use something in the analogue domain at render time. That could be outboard compression on the stereo buss, it could be using your valve channels, it could be using your PCM70, it could be using the desk's channels for analogue summing. Remember render tends to be the last stage before mastering, after all the mix decisions and tweaks have been made.

Some of these processes could -and should be done by a record pass which results in a track of new recorded material (eg reverb return on vocals, valve channel return on guitar) -wav files that can be then used in the mix with decisions of level, EQ, etc made on their sound and at the point where a mixdown is wanted, an offline render could then be used for your final mix.


What do you mean by stereo track outputs in this case? The master channels? Whether you send your REAPER master channels to some part of your desk depends entirely on what you want to achieve in the analogue domain.


For example, if I was wanting to put an outboard compressor across the master buss, I'd mix with an instance of ReaInsert on my REAPER master channel which sent to outs 31 and 32. I'd put the buss comp on the GSR master inserts and set the Digital Master switch ("L-R"), bring the "Dig Master Input" level up, and the control room source to "Main Mix L-R". The ReaInsert return channels would be ins 31 and 32. I'd then set up the mix in REAPER while monitoring through the GSR master faders and the buss compressor, and once happy I'd render online.

This way I'm using the buss compressor to set up the mix (you mix through it, not just set up the comp after the mix, because the compressed sound will influence your mix decisions) and I'm using the desks master channel and rendering online -but that is because it suits the workflow.

For sending your guitar through the valve channels, I'd send your original guitar track to out 29 or 30 and I'd set up another track or tracks to record the corresponding in or ins. I'd do a record pass and save the wav files, and then either replace the original guitar track with the valve recordings or blend it with the valve recordings in the mix, rendering offline at the end (unless I wanted to do the above buss comp thing).


You have a very capable and flexible tool in that GSR desk. Don't feel you have to use all of it for everything. Use bits of it and listen to the results. Feel your way in. Use it as a big recording interface to start with (you can record a whole band at once with that -preamps and all!), use it as a handy monitor controller. Use it for easy analogue outboard record passes (plug stuff in, set your DAW routing buttons by the guide, ins and outs on your matrix, -go!). Mix through an analogue buss comp (instructions above, don't forget to set the "dig master input" level knob), try getting the motorised faders to control REAPER channel faders. Try a bit at a time and get familiar. Don't try to do it all at once.



>

Last edited by planetnine; 10-09-2014 at 06:50 AM.
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Old 10-09-2014, 06:54 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by planetnine View Post

What do you mean by stereo track outputs in this case? The master channels? Whether you send your REAPER master channels to some part of your desk depends entirely on what you want to achieve in the analogue domain.


For example, if I was wanting to put an outboard compressor across the master buss, I'd mix with an instance of ReaInsert on my REAPER master channel which sent to outs 31 and 32. I'd put the buss comp on the GSR master inserts and set the Digital Master switch ("L-R"), bring the "Dig Master Input" level up, and the control room source to "Main Mix L-R". The ReaInsert return channels would be ins 31 and 32. I'd then set up the mix in REAPER while monitoring through the GSR master faders and the buss compressor, and once happy I'd render online.


>
Thanks nathan great info there!

Stereo trk outputs i.e my stereo mixdown in Reaper i was routing the outputs of this mix to the console valve channels then making a return track in reaper & arming the record button

Render online worked but didn't have any audio showing

Yep i tried rea-insert but it has a latency problem i can't get around so not sure how to fix that or what's going on there

The auto latency didn't help
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Old 10-09-2014, 07:37 AM   #50
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Will these help you?

Annotated and coloured sections of the GSR24 block diagram.

Pink is REAPER outputs into the desk, Green is returns to REAPER.

Master Section:





Mono Channels:





Valve Channels:




I coloured and marked up a print of the block diagram so I could easily follow the signal flow.

The master section block diagram helped me because I don't have the desk in front of me to push buttons to see what happens. If you can't follow the mono section block, just use those ABCD routing tables in pages 37-39 of the manual.



>

Last edited by planetnine; 10-09-2014 at 07:44 AM.
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Old 10-09-2014, 07:50 AM   #51
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Thanks nathan great info there!

Stereo trk outputs i.e my stereo mixdown in Reaper i was routing the outputs of this mix to the console valve channels then making a return track in reaper & arming the record button

Render online worked but didn't have any audio showing

Yep i tried rea-insert but it has a latency problem i can't get around so not sure how to fix that or what's going on there

The auto latency didn't help

Latency shouldn't matter if it's on the master output, it has nothing to get "out-of-step" with. Saying that, I'm wondering what latency your GSR ins and outs are reporting. I'm sure you can get 256 samples or better.

Is it an ASIO driver? (You're on PC, yes?)


Edit: I've just re-read what you wrote about routing the REAPER master through the valve channel and back into a track -you might have a feedback loop there (REAPER would automute it). Take the send from your source track and the receive back to a fresh track, arm and do a record-pass.



>

Last edited by planetnine; 10-09-2014 at 08:01 AM.
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Old 10-09-2014, 09:35 AM   #52
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Is it an ASIO driver? (You're on PC, yes?)



>
Yes Asio driver & pc

I had rea-insert placed on a vocal track within a project & the latency was Very noticeable

at the moment it's set to 510 samples

Last edited by manley; 10-09-2014 at 09:46 AM.
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