Old 03-12-2016, 09:44 AM   #41
Jason Brian Merrill
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why would you expect old hardware to continue to be supported?

why would you expect old Operating Systems to continue to be supported?

Make your own, or go linux or something
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Old 03-12-2016, 09:46 AM   #42
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why would you expect old hardware to continue to be supported?

why would you expect old Operating Systems to continue to be supported?

Make your own, or go linux or something
Where did I say I expected that?

You said no-one is being forced. We are, just not for a few years.
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Old 03-12-2016, 09:47 AM   #43
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I don't think that's the definition of being "forced"
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Old 03-12-2016, 11:47 AM   #44
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I don't think that's the definition of being "forced"
When extended support ends the choice will be Windows 10 or a vulnerable pc.

When all available hardware is only supported by 10, the choice will be Windows 10 or no pc.

I don't understand how you could say that we won't be forced to update.
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Old 03-12-2016, 12:25 PM   #45
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In the absence of some compelling, Earth shattering, Cosmic rocking reason to move from Windows 8.1 Pro to anything else, I've found no reason to upgrade. There appears to be no Windows 10 feature or function that I can't live without. In fact, I can't find any Windows 10 feature or function that serves my purpose more than the changes serves Microsoft's purpose.

And so, just as I stayed behind for years on XP, 7, etc., I'll likely hang around for years on 8.1.

I will say there's only 1 dramatic change that occured when I moved off of Win 7 - my UAD Quad Card become extremely unreliable - constantly dismounting itself. Bad card? UA won't say because they refuse to address any issue where any Windows OS beyond 7 is concerned. So I have a few thousand $K sitting around I can't use.
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Old 03-12-2016, 12:31 PM   #46
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In the absence of some compelling, Earth shattering, Cosmic rocking reason to move from Windows 8.1 Pro to anything else, I've found no reason to upgrade. There appears to be no Windows 10 feature or function that I can't live without. In fact, I can't find any Windows 10 feature or function that serves my purpose more than the changes serves Microsoft's purpose.

And so, just as I stayed behind for years on XP, 7, etc., I'll likely hang around for years on 8.1.

I will say there's only 1 dramatic change that occured when I moved off of Win 7 - my UAD Quad Card become extremely unreliable - constantly dismounting itself. Bad card? UA won't say because they refuse to address any issue where any Windows OS beyond 7 is concerned. So I have a few thousand $K sitting around I can't use.
Ouch, that's some expensive hardware to become unusable
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Old 03-12-2016, 01:42 PM   #47
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When extended support ends the choice will be Windows 10 or a vulnerable pc.

...

As I understand it now, that's a vunerable PC ...or a vunerable PC.

This new workstation is going to be internet isolated too, I guess...



>
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Old 03-12-2016, 05:34 PM   #48
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Win 8 - Wow!! The search (Win button + text) is so great.F*k the Start button
Win 8.1 -Wow!! - Same as before. What's the fuzz about?
Win 10 - Wow!! - Win button opens a smaller window, other than that, what's the fuzz about?
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Old 03-12-2016, 06:05 PM   #49
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Also, the new processors from Intel are not supported on previous versions of Windows, only 10.
Mainstream support for WIN7 ended over a year ago. MSFT will patch the OS for security issues for another 4 years, but there is not going to be any functional enhancements or extensions.

I just do not get all the uproar. WIN10 is the better OS, it installs cleanly to any PC if so desired and (for now) is a free update.
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Old 03-12-2016, 06:19 PM   #50
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Mainstream support for WIN7 ended over a year ago. MSFT will patch the OS for security issues for another 4 years, but there is not going to be any functional enhancements or extensions.

I just do not get all the uproar. WIN10 is the better OS, it installs cleanly to any PC if so desired and (for now) is a free update.
The uproar from me is because Windows 7 is pretty much perfect for me. I don't want anything to be improved.

Windows 10 has 2 major bad things that I can see - forced automatic updates and it deletes programmes from your computer that you've chosen to install.

Those are pretty bad downsides.

If I had to pay the full price of Windows 7 again to get another 10 years of it exactly as it is but with security updates I'd take that over a free update to Windows 10 any day.
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Old 03-12-2016, 11:38 PM   #51
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Windows 10 has 2 major bad things that I can see - forced automatic updates and it deletes programmes from your computer that you've chosen to install.
Sorry to repeat myself, but in case you dont notice my comment in the other thread, what programmes has windows 10 uninstalled from your computer (or anyone elses for that matter)?>
I havent been looking that hard but havent found any instance of this happening.

MS have for a very long time (certainly Win7) been offering updates to various gfx cards in their standard updates that break the gfx card, in almost every case Nvidia, but that is the only instance I can think of and it certainly isnt new to win10
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Old 03-13-2016, 01:42 AM   #52
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I'm not an expert on the ins and outs of OS', I've machines still on Win98SE, XP and Win7-Pro because I was told they were good systems (and they do their job well, I won't mess with them).

I can't get a straight answer out of anybody here, will Win10-Pro exclude me from the unasked-for updates and the check-home-about-everything behaviour? I'm building a new Workstation soon, and I will not have an OS on it that reports anything to the manufacturer -think client confidentiality.

I absolutely must have control over system and driver/software updates -the kind I can research first and uninstall if they cause issues -I don't want to take risks with arbitrary updates I didn't ask for breaking something while I'm not looking. Nothing I have read about Win10 gives me any confidence whatsoever, and most IT people I manage to speak to say "not on commercial machines" they won't support it.

Can anybody tell me with any confidence that Win10Pro will do what I want? Does anybody actually know what they're talking about?
>
If privacy and control is what you're after then Win10 is exactly the opposite. Win10 is a rolling release, morphing through forced updates, so nobody knows what it will be in a few weeks or months from now. Add to that the bad record of WinUpdate breaking things and you get the idea.

If I was to build a new production system, I would go with Win8.1 opting out of Microsoft account and disabling some common annoyances like OneDrive. Or Win7 if I didn't know how to disable the annoynaces and opt out of Microsoft account. In both cases, to reduce the inconvenience of the "upgrade to win10 now" nag, I would switch off the "Give me recommended updates the same way I receive important updates" option.
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Old 03-13-2016, 03:03 AM   #53
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The update routine actually recommends doing a full backup of your current installation. It also offers you the choice of doing an update or a clean install.
But of course we never actually notice these things in the heat of the moment.

Within my immediate family I had three laptops, one on win7 and 2 on win 8.1 all on Home Premium 64bit.
All three I did an update with no issues at all, apart from Mrs. decided she didnt have the time or the energy to learn a new OS and could I put her back on win7 please.
Daughter and I are quite happy with win10 on our laptops, even with the automatic updates.
Nothingf has broken so far and the actual updates seem to happen with little if any effect on performance apart from the "dont switch off your computer, we are installing some stuff" notices every now and then.

Studio machine I left on Win 8.1 for a fair old while, watching to see if there was any fallout in the early days, even though I had been running betas and release candidates on one of the laptops for some time.
That machine is on Win10 Pro and has all the popular switch-offs done.
I get almost no background activity at all & I get to decide when I get the updates and when I install them.
Mind you that one I did a full clean install and have never regretted it.

It has crossed my mind that in many cases, the issues people are getting on updates rather than clean reinstalls are very likely to have been caused by not doing the usual basic housekeeping (clearing out the crap, defragging drives, memory and registry) rather than any real shortcomings in Win10.

My experience is that every single computer I have updated to Win10 has run faster and smoother. I am now up to a dozen installs in 2 different languages and counting.

So to those of you experiencing problems, I would suggest doing a format and clean reinstall of everything.
Having never-ending disk activity is not normal. Says to me that windows is struggling to keep running because of problems it is trying to work around. Reinstall.

Agreed. Similar experience here. Windows 10 works extremely well with minimal tweaks. Same system runs smoother and snappier with windows 10 than windows 7. I'm very happy. I have both a large studio machine, and a portable device for live music, both running windows 10.
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Old 03-13-2016, 04:35 AM   #54
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Thanks for your input guys.

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Turn off automatic update.
or
Disable Automatically-Applied Updates.
Automatic updates can't be turned off, at least not on Win 10 Home. And Windows does not respect my choice to choose when to restart, it restarts itself anyway usually sometime during the night.

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Turn off Superfetch in services(stop and set manual).
Superfetch is off and has been for some time. The churning of the hdd happens regardless.

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Originally Posted by Softsynth View Post
Is this ASUS X401U a machine that you use irregularly? -if so constant updates inevitable.
No I use it almost daily, albeit only hooked up to the TV for watching Netflix (which is about the only thing it's good for anymore).

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Is your Daughters machine one that is booted up every day?
Every other week when she's here it's booted up every day, but when she's with her mom it sits unused for a week straight.
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Old 03-13-2016, 04:39 AM   #55
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Sorry to repeat myself, but in case you dont notice my comment in the other thread, what programmes has windows 10 uninstalled from your computer (or anyone elses for that matter)?>
I havent been looking that hard but havent found any instance of this happening.

MS have for a very long time (certainly Win7) been offering updates to various gfx cards in their standard updates that break the gfx card, in almost every case Nvidia, but that is the only instance I can think of and it certainly isnt new to win10
See other thread.

It's easy to find many reports of this online.
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Old 03-13-2016, 11:34 AM   #56
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The notion that there are major issues with hardware updates or otherwise is just plain false for a number of reports where some people have issues.

Sure there will be some folks having (serious) issues updating, installing or otherwise moving to WIN10. Overall though most people will not have any issues.

Even here, it's the same (few) users who keep bringing up their issues. On the number of WIN10 users they're the ones being loud maybe, but they are not the majority..
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Old 03-13-2016, 12:16 PM   #57
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The notion that there are major issues with hardware updates or otherwise is just plain false for a number of reports where some people have issues.

Sure there will be some folks having (serious) issues updating, installing or otherwise moving to WIN10. Overall though most people will not have any issues.

Even here, it's the same (few) users who keep bringing up their issues. On the number of WIN10 users they're the ones being loud maybe, but they are not the majority..
Exactly how is dismissing the users who have issues any better than being part of that whiny minority, and what does it accomplish?

Look, I'm happy for you that you're in the 50% segment who's having a stellar Win 10 experience but the fact that there are issues with the OS doesn't go away just because you shrug everyone else off as complainers.
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Old 03-13-2016, 12:23 PM   #58
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Even if I installed Windows 10 and a couple of weeks later there were no problems, I wouldn't be able to relax about the system knowing that one day I might load up a project and one of my plugins has been disabled.
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Old 03-13-2016, 12:31 PM   #59
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Even if I installed Windows 10 and a couple of weeks later there were no problems, I wouldn't be able to relax about the system knowing that one day I might load up a project and one of my plugins has been disabled.
Yeah, for me that's a far bigger issue than having problems on a single computer, annoying as that may be. If I can't trust my OS not to randomly update itself into a non-working state or uninstall my stuff from one day to the next, then I must say that it's a deal breaker.
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Old 03-13-2016, 12:37 PM   #60
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Automatic updates can't be turned off, at least not on Win 10 Home. And Windows does not respect my choice to choose when to restart, it restarts itself anyway usually sometime during the night.
Sounds like it fails some update and tries again and again. It's not the only explanation but the most likely one. If you don't want to reinstall, you can check update history, identify the failing update and try to install it manually. You can look up the update on microsoft's site by its KB number, then download and install it.

Additional general ways to attempt repairs is running chkdsk in command prompt as administrator:
Code:
chkdsk /f c:
(it should automatically scan after a reboot)

And DISM repair:
Code:
dism /online /cleanup-image /restorehealth
Also running an AV scan such as malwarebytes and adwcleaner should not hurt if you haven't yet.

It is also a good idea to check disk health. you can use the free gsmartcontrol tool for that.

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Old 03-13-2016, 12:58 PM   #61
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Sounds like it fails some update and tries again and again. It's not the only explanation but the most likely one. If you don't want to reinstall, you can check update history, identify the failing update and try to install it manually. You can look up the update on microsoft's site by its KB number, then download and install it.
I'm not sure how this works in Win 10, but I have not received any notifications about updates failing to install. Usually I wake up to a notification saying "Updates were installed" or something like that. So I would need to check out the update history to determine whether something has gone wrong?

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Also running an AV scan such as malwarebytes and adwcleaner should not hurt if you haven't yet.
The machine is 100% malware free, checked it just a few days ago just to be sure. I don't really use it for much beyond running Netflix these days so I don't see how it could have been afflicted with any nasties.

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It is also a good idea to check disk health. you can use the free gsmartcontrol tool for that.
I haven't run any disk checks on the machine for a few months, there wasn't any errors last time I checked, and if there is now it's likely because Win 10 has updated/thrashed/rebooted my hdd to death
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Old 03-13-2016, 01:12 PM   #62
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See other thread.

It's easy to find many reports of this online.
Had some moer thoughts on this after investigating.

Found one set of reports for the piriform stuff, which was fixed for win10 during release candidate period & a bunch of smoke and mirrors, mostly from folks who didnt follow the instructions and are now blaming MS.

However, it IS a bit much that, if someone doesn`t bother to do the compatibility check at the beginning of the install, Win10 goes ahead and uninstalls stuff that would break Win 10.
Are you sure it actually uninstalled it, rather than just disabling it?
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Old 03-13-2016, 03:19 PM   #63
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Exactly how is dismissing the users who have issues any better than being part of that whiny minority, and what does it accomplish?

Look, I'm happy for you that you're in the 50% segment who's having a stellar Win 10 experience but the fact that there are issues with the OS doesn't go away just because you shrug everyone else off as complainers.
I felt bad for my nephew. He installed Windows 10 on his laptop, and it made it unusable, slowing it to a crawl due to it updating, updating, updating. I saw him yesterday, and he said that he went back to 7.

I talked to gramps a while back, who has been using Windows since DOS. He figured out pretty fast that he didn't like what Windows 10 was doing on his machine, and he uninstalled it.

I see all sorts of people talking about installing anti-spyware, in reaction to what the os is doing.

Obviously, all is not well in Windows 10 for everyone and every machine. Sure, some people are content with it, but some people are not. Some people have privacy concerns, some have performance issues, and some don't see any point in fixing what isn't broken.
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Old 03-13-2016, 03:35 PM   #64
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and some don't see any point in fixing what isn't broken.
This is a big part of it, I think. It's been quite some time since MS released a really big turd of an OS. Vista, maybe? At least for a majority of users.

Sure, Win 8 had its problems but those were mostly UI-related I think. 8 was pretty much similar to 7 from a performance perspective.

And Windows 7 was, according to a lot of people, the most stable and well-performing Windows so far. It's like the wonder child of XP and Vista, yet with most of the modern features of 8 and 10.

No wonder people are asking why the hell they should upgrade to 10.
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Old 03-13-2016, 05:51 PM   #65
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This is a big part of it, I think. It's been quite some time since MS released a really big turd of an OS. Vista, maybe? At least for a majority of users.

Sure, Win 8 had its problems but those were mostly UI-related I think. 8 was pretty much similar to 7 from a performance perspective.

And Windows 7 was, according to a lot of people, the most stable and well-performing Windows so far. It's like the wonder child of XP and Vista, yet with most of the modern features of 8 and 10.

No wonder people are asking why the hell they should upgrade to 10.
People were saying the same things with Vista - I mean, many people had problems with it, and those complaints were largely blown off. And it was the same when 98/ME came out. But it seems that the intensity of denial of problems for Windows 10 has increased exponentially over previous bad versions of Windows.

At this point, I'm questioning the future of Windows, as Microsoft seems to be becoming more pushy (with a corporate sort of smile) against what users feel is unacceptable. I guess we'll see what things look like in a few years, but the whole thing has turned me off of Microsoft.
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Old 03-13-2016, 06:17 PM   #66
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People were saying the same things with Vista - I mean, many people had problems with it, and those complaints were largely blown off. And it was the same when 98/ME came out. But it seems that the intensity of denial of problems for Windows 10 has increased exponentially over previous bad versions of Windows.

At this point, I'm questioning the future of Windows, as Microsoft seems to be becoming more pushy (with a corporate sort of smile) against what users feel is unacceptable. I guess we'll see what things look like in a few years, but the whole thing has turned me off of Microsoft.
I agree, except that I think Microsoft will do fine. They fired most of their testing engineers last year. What they really care about is enterprise, and individual users are now pretty much beta testers for enterprise. That is why it is free.

They do seem to be screwing up their phone business. However, I don't really care about Microsoft anymore. Eventually, I'll get Reaper running on Linux or if I can't get it to run acceptably, I will get a Mac for music.
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Old 03-13-2016, 11:06 PM   #67
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I'm not sure how this works in Win 10, but I have not received any notifications about updates failing to install. Usually I wake up to a notification saying "Updates were installed" or something like that. So I would need to check out the update history to determine whether something has gone wrong?
Yep. Not sure whether Win10 bothers to notify of failed updates. What makes me think it's failing updates is the daily update/reboot cycle and the unexplained disk activity. They do not issue an update every simgle day, yet. Look for "windows update" in the start-menu-whatever-thing, you will probably see a "check for updates" result, there IIRC you need to click on the advanced options and then on view update history.

Also do not dismiss the DISM fix, this is one easy generic way with 0 user interaction that can fix sh*tload of OS problems and in theory never harms.
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Old 03-13-2016, 11:16 PM   #68
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I agree, except that I think Microsoft will do fine. They fired most of their testing engineers last year. What they really care about is enterprise, and individual users are now pretty much beta testers for enterprise. That is why it is free.
Interesting. I did not know that. Here is a video from an ex-employee of Microsoft talking about privacy issues in Windows 10: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1kGMCfb2xw


A bit about that guy: http://www.businessinsider.com/forme...g-fired-2014-7
And a bit about Microsoft's layoffs: http://www.businessinsider.com/micro...la-2014-7?op=1
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Old 03-14-2016, 12:54 AM   #69
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However, it IS a bit much that, if someone doesn`t bother to do the compatibility check at the beginning of the install, Win10 goes ahead and uninstalls stuff that would break Win 10.
Last I checked this action requires the user to agree and the installer will abort of you don't..
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Old 03-14-2016, 08:06 AM   #70
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Changed my orpiginal response. Are you saying that if the installing user just hits OK to say they have done the compatibility check routine the installer WILL contiunue, but if you dont say you did it, W10 install stops?

Now that would make sense.
The number of my little darlings that just hit "no" or "yes" or "go away" without reading the message is legion.


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Old 03-14-2016, 08:26 AM   #71
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Ever since I upgraded my laptop (a modest ASUS X401U, FTR) to Win 10 last year it's been nigh unusable.
To get back to the OP.

I'd suggest doing a clean install, it would not be a surprise to me if the ASUS specific tools/drivers/OEM modifications of the previous OS are behind what you are experiencing.

ASUS would generally use pretty basic hardware components so I'd expect WIN10 to have/find and install the correct drivers during install. Instructions and tutorials on how to do a clean install from OEM are plentiful on Google/YouTube and it's really straightforward; pretty much get the ISO/USB using the MSFT Media Tool and do a clean install, it will activate once complete.
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Old 03-14-2016, 08:52 AM   #72
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Something else that has been dawning on me here.

Anybody I am in contact with who has windows10 is probably giving MS my personal data through their contacts list. Do you users who don't care about your own personal data think it is ok to give away mine without my permission?

That's tantamount to broadcasting and publishing anything someone sends to you as personal communication without permission. I don't think that's cool. In fact I think that's breach of privacy. In the EU, I'm not sure that's entirely legal, we have data protection laws.


Can I just send you a virus back without your permission? I sure that's ok



>
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Old 03-14-2016, 09:00 AM   #73
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Anybody I am in contact with who has windows10 is probably giving MS my personal data through their contacts list.
References?

Quote:
Do you users who don't care about your own personal data think it is ok to give away mine without my permission?
Assuming the references you are going to provide soon withstand scrutiny, which data is your 'personal' data? It is required to, and has a very specific definition.
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Old 03-14-2016, 10:20 AM   #74
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References?

...

Assuming the references you are going to provide soon withstand scrutiny, which data is your 'personal' data? It is required to, and has a very specific definition.

References? Anything I send to another individual regarding commercial business should honour client confidentiality. To know their IT systems could be intentionally farming data out is horrifying!

The default install and running config of Win10 gives MS carte blanche access to read email, contacts lists and anything typed. Am I living in a different universe or something Karbo, is that sort of thing ok in your part of the world? Is this going to be the new "normal"..?

I just feel anything with any confidentiality or intellectual property cannot be sent with or to a Windows10 machine, because unless set up carefully (and rechecked after every update or reboot) a Windows10 machine lets MS harvest it. For me that is not acceptable. For any government other than the US whose citizens use Win10 that should certainly not be acceptable.

Don't tell me you're part of the cosy ignorance flock now? I just can't believe this is not a big problem to everyone.


With your country's (and probably ours, too) record of letting their security services do what the hell they like with companies' databases and data, that's it -1984 was just 32 years behind schedule...

Back to the standalone linux firewall methinks.


Edit: And it looks like I'll have to get an enterprise edition licence to control updates too, from what I can tell, Win10-Pro doesn't let you stop them, only limited scheduling...



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Old 03-14-2016, 10:23 AM   #75
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When extended support ends the choice will be Windows 10 or a vulnerable pc.

When all available hardware is only supported by 10, the choice will be Windows 10 or no pc.

I don't understand how you could say that we won't be forced to update.
you aren't. You can keep your machine on windows 7 as long as you want. If you want patches to keep your computer up to date with different security threats, etc... you'll have to upgrade.
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Old 03-14-2016, 10:58 AM   #76
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I have W10 on three machines and they have all been absolutely fine other than one upgrade on one of them which crashed mid-upgrade and was a bit of a hassle to sort out. I much prefer it to 8.1. Mind you, I don't use it for Reaper - I use a Mac Mini as a music machine...I can't get on with OSX and don't use any of the Apple software other than the browser and email, but as a bit of hardware it has been great. My previous music machine as a purpose built PC which I continued to run with Windows 98 until just over a year ago - no upgrades, no internet and it ran like a rocket and never went wrong but finally I needed something meatier for Reaper hence the Mini.
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Old 03-14-2016, 11:52 AM   #77
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References? Anything I send to another individual regarding commercial business should honour client confidentiality.
>
I agree but... You had to get the idea ^that is being shared from somewhere. So you don't actually have any credible references as where/why this contact sharing you quoted earlier occurs and you are just repeating it ignorantly? Do you have any details as to where that might even come from? That's what I mean by asking for references. I don't have a problem if you are concerned, but I'm surprised you'd make such grand statements without bothering to check anything at all.

No need to complain to me about updates, that's not the claim I'm asking you to elaborate on; you said contacts were shared in a specific way; gimme something credible as to why you typed it the way you did. You don't seem like the type of person who would parrot without checking to at least separate the wheat from the chaff first.

C'mon man, you see this all over the place in audio myths, do you really think everything you hear is suddenly 100% accurate just because it's not about audio? Please.
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Last edited by karbomusic; 03-14-2016 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 03-14-2016, 11:57 AM   #78
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Win10 is the first Windows in my house in almost a decade. I've got it running on two machines and like it very much.
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Old 03-14-2016, 01:36 PM   #79
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Karbo:

"To enable Cortana to provide personalized experiences and relevant suggestions, Microsoft collects and uses various types of data, such as your device location, data from your calendar, the apps you use, data from your emails and text messages, who you call, your contacts and how often you interact with them on your device.

Cortana also learns about you by collecting data about how you use your device and other Microsoft services, such as your music, alarm settings, whether the lock screen is on, what you view and purchase, your browse and Bing search history, and more."

Note the "and more".

Source:
http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2015...wind-nos/#gref
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Old 03-14-2016, 02:12 PM   #80
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Skynet is here. I personally like my privacy for the most part and I am not OK with Windows farming it. I'm staying on Windows 7 until Linux (mint) is functioning with Reaper and vst's. I'm not sure to what degree they are collecting data but what I do know is they're being deliberately coy about it.
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