Old 06-05-2018, 09:07 PM   #1
Tubeguy
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Default Need some studio monitor suggestions

I've been recording for over 20 years and always build my own passive monitors so I am fairly experienced. But I thought I'll buy my self a pair of monitors for once. I'm looking at preferably passive, sealed(not ported), no less than 6" monitors. Now the price - $300-400. Is it even possible to buy anything good for this money?
There is some choice out there but to avoid falling for sale hype, I thought I'd rather ask here.
I'd also welcome suggestions for any "cheaper" monitors that can be actually used for both mixing and mastering successfully. Thanks.
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Old 06-06-2018, 04:36 AM   #2
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Tough call for good sealed speakers at that price. I share your preference for sealed designs over ported for the most part.

Suggest you increase your budget and look at well preserved second hand designs, or look at DIY again with an increased budget.

Otherwise look at the best of the ported designs at that price point.
Behringer B2031A has great performance for the price point.
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Old 06-06-2018, 07:58 AM   #3
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as a second pair of monitors, I really like the Avantone Mixcubes. I have the passive ones.. they are in your price range.
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Old 06-06-2018, 08:06 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Tubeguy View Post
I'm looking at preferably passive, sealed(not ported)
Why these preferences?

https://www.thomann.de/gb/passive_ne...B%5D=1x%206%22
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Old 06-06-2018, 09:09 AM   #5
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JBL LSR305.
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:12 AM   #6
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JBL LSR305.
Those are neither passive nor sealed.

Unfortunately I don't know of anything meeting all those specs in that price range, and the closest I know about is the mixcubes.
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Old 06-07-2018, 02:06 AM   #7
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Of sealed boxes G-Sun wrote:
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Originally Posted by G-Sun View Post
Why these preferences?.......
Outside of large speaker cabinets (which would be considered massive by modern consumers) bass quality and control is almost always superior in sealed designs.
Ported designs tend to be more efficient and have more apparent upper bass. It's a classic quality or quantity trade off. That's not to say plenty of fine designs that are ported today. Also active designs have far better control over the drive units via electronic means, if he decides to go that route.
The vast majority are ported. Lots of decent quality bass reflex designs out there.
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Old 06-07-2018, 02:32 AM   #8
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Why these preferences?
I have few reasons for my preferences. Mainly I don't like powered speakers because they have too many components. If something doesn't sound right it's often hard to pinpoint the problem. With passives I can just change an amp.
Another is the connectivity to any amp I desire.

Why sealed - sealed work much better in my studio acoustics plus I like the tighter bass.

Why 6" - that's what I like to mix on and than sometimes 12".
That's how it works for me anyway.

Regarding the link, the passive KRKs are the ones I've selected so far as a candidate in my research from all other brands. But the KRK hype is big and I've never seen them on a desk of "big" studio so I'm not quiet sure what to make of them. The bright yellow cone suggest to me they're trying to make them look like something they're not but I could be wrong about that.
I like the cubes but I need monitors for more than just mixing so they wont' work for me.
Thanks for your inputs.

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Old 06-07-2018, 03:40 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Tubeguy View Post
I have few reasons for my preferences. Mainly I don't like powered speakers because they have too many components. If something doesn't sound right it's often hard to pinpoint the problem. With passives I can just change an amp.
Another is the connectivity to any amp I desire.

Why sealed - sealed work much better in my studio acoustics plus I like the tighter bass.

Why 6" - that's what I like to mix on and than sometimes 12".
That's how it works for me anyway.

Regarding the link, the passive KRKs are the ones I've selected so far as a candidate in my research from all other brands. But the KRK hype is big and I've never seen them on a desk of "big" studio so I'm not quiet sure what to make of them. The bright yellow cone suggest to me they're trying to make them look like something they're not but I could be wrong about that.
I like the cubes but I need monitors for more than just mixing so they wont' work for me.
Thanks for your inputs.
KRK use "glass-Aramid composite woofer" these are typically yellow, sometimes white. Yellow is probably chosen to look like kevlar. Kevlar being associated with B&W.

Active is a major advantage of studio monitors, bang for buck you are not paying for metal chassis and larger heatsinks. Active gets rid of the worst element of passive speaker systems, that being the addition of passive crossover components between drive units and amplifiers.

Plenty of good sounding passive speakers (I use some, along with actives) but one of the great things of the studio environment is the not inconsiderable advantages of active designs:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/0403/

Also read Q26:
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/faq.htm
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Old 06-07-2018, 03:58 AM   #10
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I know they are neither passive nor sealed, but I'd go for the JBL SLR 308s -- they are well within your budget and sound great. I have five of their predecessors, had them for years, never any issue. Hook them up to any decent soundcard and you're good to go.
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Old 06-07-2018, 04:13 AM   #11
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In threads like this everyone just ends up recommending what they have in their studio. I think any speaker can be used for mixing and mastering as long as you know what they sound like very well within the environment that you work in. If they are an effective reference point then you will be able to make good decisions with them. I also think it's healthy to change your speakers now and again so you don't get too bogged down into only 'one' way of listening and working if that makes sense. Sometimes I work on Fostex PM1 MkII's in a well treated studio, sometimes on headphones with Waves NX and sometimes on a system I built from cheap Bush computer speakers combined with a Kef PSW 1000.2 sub that I picked up for next to nothing in a charity shop. I know them all and can work on either. I actually prefer writing on the Bush set up - because it's got a hyped upper mid/high range - which helps me to focus in on the exciting part of the eq.
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Old 06-07-2018, 04:32 AM   #12
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Quote:
I think any speaker can be used for mixing and mastering as long as you know what they sound like very well within the environment that you work in. If they are an effective reference point then you will be able to make good decisions with them. I also think it's healthy to change your speakers now and again so you don't get too bogged down into only 'one' way of listening and working if that makes sense.

^+1 to this^ not blowing trumpets,but having 24 speakers here and they all sound different.
+also believe decent headphones are actually better for details than speakers are for monitoring.multiple sets of headphones/ear buds> can give really differing reasults for ears.
it's really a pleasure being able to monitor l/r/c/r/side channels seperately.
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Old 06-07-2018, 07:41 AM   #13
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I must agree that most speakers can be used for mixing. I have no problem using Hifi speakers if I know them well. The whole think about flat frequency doesn't hold water. If you listen to bunch of studio monitors, they all sound different anyway. Besides we all hear slightly differently too. The trick is to mix music so it sounds similar on most speakers.
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:48 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex View Post
Those are neither passive nor sealed.

Unfortunately I don't know of anything meeting all those specs in that price range, and the closest I know about is the mixcubes.
No they're not. But they're also the best you're going to get in that price range, and imposing an artificial parameters doesn't make sense for the outcome of "having monitors I can use in that price range".


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Old 06-09-2018, 12:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeguy View Post
I have few reasons for my preferences. Mainly I don't like powered speakers because they have too many components.
"Ok".


Quote:
If something doesn't sound right it's often hard to pinpoint the problem. With passives I can just change an amp.
... and how much is the amp going to cost? And where is this mythical combination that's going to be more useful to mix on than the JBLs?

Quote:
Another is the connectivity to any amp I desire.
Are you hooking a Mark Levinson up to a KRK Rockit....?

If you're not in the "ATC/Amphion/Dynaudio/Barefoot" price range it's pretty clear cut below that limbo zone between the that range and the LSRs. A cheap KRK with a nice amp isn't going to be as good as the LSRs, JBL owns that price point now IMO.
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Old 06-09-2018, 12:12 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by bladerunner View Post
In threads like this everyone just ends up recommending what they have in their studio.
Why wouldn't they, if they've listened to many other monitors in different price classes and have chosen accordingly?

I predict the LSRs will dominate the sub-$1,000 market "very soon"...
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Old 06-10-2018, 02:38 AM   #17
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... and how much is the amp going to cost?
Good amps aren't problem, I've a few. That's why I also mentioned the connectivity problem not being able to chose particular amp I want.

But since I'm looking for a secondary set of monitors to use as an addition I might need to buy active monitors anyway because choice for passives is very low at my price. Basically just one - KRK 6".
I've also discovered couple of monitors I think I like the best from listening to demos on YT. Ok I know that's pretty low tech testing but certainly better than being in a store trying them, unless it's a Hifi store with dedicated room and they don't sell monitors here.
Anyway to me the JBL LSR305 and Presonus Eris E4.5 sound better than the KRK I looked previously. There is nothing else in this price range to choose I think. The Presonus are almost half price, some people say they have backround noise so I don't know. Check the comparison JBL - KRK - Presonus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBUD3hyRil8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXlUD7-C5sY

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Old 06-10-2018, 09:39 AM   #18
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I don't have a recommendation for you...

In a blind listening test of a bunch of monitors you wouldn't be able to identify the sealed, ported, active, passive designs. There are many ways to make a good speaker.... and many more ways to make a bad speaker.

In a blind test you probably could separate the small woofers from the large woofers because you can't reproduce smooth-strong-accurate-deep bass with a small woofer. But, that doesn't mean that an 8-inch woofer is always better than 5 or 6-inch woofer... There are lots of factors that go into speaker design.

When you compromise box size, woofer size, and efficiency, you can generally get better overall performance with a port. But there are lots of decisions and compromises that go into speaker design and that's just a generalization.

As you say, your choice of passive monitors is limited (although you can choose a hi-fi speaker).

With an active design the manufacturer can build-in factory-adjusted equalization to smooth-out frequency response and/or since they are usually bi-amplified/tri-amplified the drive to the individual drivers can be tweaked to balance their output. And, it's easy to throw-in user-adjustable EQ.

Although it's not too important to you (the user) active designs are more efficient because there is no passive crossover between the amp & drivers. And, the amp is power-matched to the driver and bi-amped/triamped designs don't behave as badly when overdriven, and you are unlikely to fry an active speaker by overdriving it.
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:57 PM   #19
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$300-400. Is it even possible to buy anything good for this money?
Regarding bass-response, I guess your room will impact far more than the choice of passive vs. active.
And, if your room is well treated in this area, the the budget factor seems unproportional.

As was mentioned here, hi-fi speakers will be your best within your preference. Used you can get something really good I guess.

But, if wanting nearfilds, second pair, active ported is the typical choice.
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Old 06-10-2018, 03:21 PM   #20
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Ultimately active speakers have more potential to be accurate in absolute terms (not the budget mentioned here). They have greater potential to be technically superior which does translate to audible performance improvements. However Hi-Fi systems can go really far with exceptional quality passive speakers. Some of the very best Hi-Fi systems available are based around passive speakers.

The Hi-Fi market developing around upgrades such as separate amplifiers and passive loudspeakers is more a triumph of marketing than technical advantages.

In terms of bass quality that is more subjective. Most drive units are designs today to be used in vented enclosures. Cheap computers made calculating high performance from ported enclosures much easier than the old days. Even so small ported speakers do have a different quality with a tuned port typically being audible at certain frequencies that can become obvious to people used to the more even handed sealed box/acoustic suspension speakers, and also users with aperiodic designs and most especially electrostatics panel speakers and the more rare open baffle actives.

Active speakers have better control over the drivers - the amplifiers are connected directly to the drive units and each driver has its own amplifier (unless your so called active is really a passive powered speaker merely being called an active).

If £300-400 was the budget and the user didn't already have amplifiers I would recommend actives.
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:39 AM   #21
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Ultimately active speakers have more potential to be accurate
Yes I've been thinking about that. Maybe even more so with cheaper monitors. They might be able to "tune" the internal amps to make lower quality speakers perform better which is not possible with separate standalone amp. So perhaps the sound quality of same price active monitor would be better (or better optimized) than passive one. Just a thought.
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:47 AM   #22
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Yes I've been thinking about that. Maybe even more so with cheaper monitors. They might be able to "tune" the internal amps to make lower quality speakers perform better which is not possible with separate standalone amp. So perhaps the sound quality of same price active monitor would be better (or better optimized) than passive one. Just a thought.
That's my primary attraction to active monitors, the entire design of the amp goes into the drivers it is driving. At the requested price range, there's going to be some tradeoff but I'm confident it's not an impossible task to get something useable.

I also thought I saw a comment before about monitors varying wildly with how they sound, that is true but they (fairly good ones) converge and sound much more alike when within their nominal range (for both the monitors and our ears) but they begin diverging outside of that range. I was up to 5 sets of switchable monitors a couple years ago but now I'm down to 3 with one set getting 80% of the usage (DynAudio LYD48) and the others less but still good for occasional comparisons mix wise.
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:08 AM   #23
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Anyway to me the JBL LSR305 and Presonus Eris E4.5 sound better than the KRK I looked previously. There is nothing else in this price range to choose I think. The Presonus are almost half price, some people say they have backround noise so I don't know. Check the comparison JBL - KRK - Presonus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBUD3hyRil8

I had a pair of Eris - one stopped working after about 6 months, the other died after about a year.

Didn't bother to troubleshoot or call the company - never really like the sound anyway.
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:21 AM   #24
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Some problems I have had with active monitors are noise and turn-on thump/loud click. Every active monitor I have used has been at least a little noisy. For whatever reason, I haven't had any noise issues with any discrete amps, which I think is down to the switch-mode power supplies used for the amps in active monitors today. I have noticed the same thing with guitar amps and processors. Old guitar amps that use a big ol power supply transformer and battery powered processors don't have that same power supply noise going on, where some of the crappy tube and digital amps and processors that use switch-mode supplies are pretty noisy.

And I leave my amp off before booting up the pc, turning it on with with the push of a button within arm's length. The switches (two of them) for active monitors are typically located on the back of the monitors, which makes them not so convenient for avoiding that thump/loud click. Also, while I haven't done any real AB testing, I tend to think that general sound quality has been a little better using discrete amps over active monitors.
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Old 06-13-2018, 03:26 PM   #25
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Yes I've been thinking about that. Maybe even more so with cheaper monitors. They might be able to "tune" the internal amps to make lower quality speakers perform better which is not possible with separate standalone amp. So perhaps the sound quality of same price active monitor would be better (or better optimized) than passive one. Just a thought.

That's exactly what happens. Hi-Fi amplifiers for passive speakers have to be over engineered to cope with all manner of different loads, because the designer doesn't know what is going to be attached at the end of the cables, or indeed how long the cables are going to be and so on. This doesn't by itself translate to all round better performance, it just makes them able to cope with most of whatever could be thrown at them. From an engineering perspective this makes far less sense than designing everything to work together optimally without pointless expense.

As Karbo said:
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
That's my primary attraction to active monitors, the entire design of the amp goes into the drivers it is driving. At the requested price range, there's going to be some tradeoff but I'm confident it's not an impossible task to get something useable.
That said it seems a lot of people seem to expect high performance from the lowest budget active designs. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people using these forums have spent more money on their Smart phones than they have on their monitors!!!

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Old 06-13-2018, 05:41 PM   #26
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Why wouldn't they, if they've listened to many other monitors in different price classes and have chosen accordingly?

I predict the LSRs will dominate the sub-$1,000 market "very soon"...
I don't know if JBL will dominate this market, but I have a small 'personal' studio with good sound treatment and enough room to record a trio. I have had several monitoring solutions (KRK, older Klipsch, etc) and several types of high quality headphones, but have had the JBLs (LSR5) for a number of years, and know how what I hear will translate into other listening situations...I also have a couple of active and passive speaker setups in various rooms (large 15'x40' and small 8'x10') of my house where I can listen as well as my car with good sound and my wife's old Honda Civic with crap sound. I also listen in my shop to SONOS setups.

The key is learning how a mix will sound in a variety of settings by listening and calibrating to "your monitor setup", whatever that is. Nobody else is going to listen to the recordings you make in your studio, so as long as your room has reasonable phase response (from either enough clutter or good treatment) you will be able to make consistent mixes
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:50 AM   #27
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I've finally bought monitors. For once I decided to go with the flow and bought active, ported ones and think I did the right thing after all. Got a pair of JBL LSR305. In about 5 hours of listening I've not noticed any acoustic problems I've expected to have with ported speakers, they sound great all set just flat.
But one thing I've noticed they pickup power line clicks when something at home turns on/off (not sure what it is yet, maybe a fridge). None of my other amps or gear picks that up. Same with plugging stuff to power board, JBLs need to be turned off otherwise they click. It' more of a higher frequency pop so better to turn off to protect tweeters. But it's not a problem, I'll sort that out.
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Old 06-15-2018, 07:20 AM   #28
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I've finally bought monitors. For once I decided to go with the flow and bought active, ported ones and think I did the right thing after all. Got a pair of JBL LSR305. In about 5 hours of listening I've not noticed any acoustic problems I've expected to have with ported speakers, they sound great all set just flat.
JBL should know what they are doing.

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But one thing I've noticed they pickup power line clicks when something at home turns on/off (not sure what it is yet, maybe a fridge). None of my other amps or gear picks that up. Same with plugging stuff to power board, JBLs need to be turned off otherwise they click. It' more of a higher frequency pop so better to turn off to protect tweeters. But it's not a problem, I'll sort that out.
That shouldn't hurt them at all.
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Old 06-18-2018, 02:57 AM   #29
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Couple of days of usage now and I'm happy with the JBLs. I did try different power outlets but the clicking is still there so it's something to get used to.
I wish they used power transformers instead of switching PSU but that would bring the price up maybe 20% each so I guess it's an ok compromise.
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