Berlin Strings without modwheel

[Skrzypiec]

Hello everyone.

I'm trying Berlin Strings but currently without a MIDI controller.
I cannot find an alternate way to control smooth expression changes.
I tried envelopes and media item lane but none seems to affect legatos.

Do you have any clue?
Thanks for help

[Colox]

Originally Posted by Skrzypiec

Hello everyone.

I'm trying Berlin Strings but currently without a MIDI controller.
I cannot find an alternate way to control smooth expression changes.
I tried envelopes and media item lane but none seems to affect legatos.

Do you have any clue?
Thanks for help

It's one of the MIDI CC controllers, for sure. Most likely CC1 or CC11, optionally CC2 or CC7. Check the manual to be sure.

To try, open the MIDI editor, draw in a couple of long notes (within the given instrument's range), go to the controller lane, select to show the desired CC controller data (the left dropdown selector) and draw in some controller data in the controller lane, under the long notes. Play it back, and you should hear it.

[DarkStar]

Do you mean this product?
http://www.orchestraltools.com/libra...in_strings.php
or another?

Phew! 129 GB and €1008 (+download traffic costs or an SSD). You said that you were trying it - it there a demo download available?

The Features User Guide doesn't say much (but there is a list of legato instruments). And there is a legato video on the web page.

[Skrzypiec]

Originally Posted by Colox

It's one of the MIDI CC controllers, for sure...

So I was doing the procedure like you described but somehow couldn't separately control velocity and expression. Not good.
I just got the controller and it works. I think so... I'm no pro so it's hard to tell what's my fault and what the setup's...

Originally Posted by DarkStar

Phew! 129 GB and €1008. You said that you were trying it - it there a demo?

There isn't so I got an unofficial one for testing. I have €800 to spend and no time left so I need to know if it's worth it.
So far I'm disappointed - legatos are barely correct, notes get skipped and my beloved violas are traditionally neglected.
Again, tons of features but I can't make a simple melody sound real I may bin BerlinStrings and invest in something else.
But it could also be I'm mishandling it, so if I manage to write anything serious I'll say and you can discard all I said above.

[Colox]

Originally Posted by Skrzypiec

So I was doing the procedure like you described but somehow couldn't separately control velocity and expression. Not good.
I just got the controller and it works. I think so... I'm no pro so it's hard to tell what's my fault and what the setup's...

I don't own this library, but I've played with it a few minutes. If I remember correctly, many Berlin patches doesn't utilize velocity. I think some (most?) patches might be programmed so different velocities doesn't cause any change, only the CC controller causes change.

[Skrzypiec]

Yes, that's why I tried the CC controler with the volume envelope instead.
This is precisely what didn't work. I'll give details if I have any progress

[Skrzypiec]

In the end after trying about 10 different libraries I binned almost everything.
I could do some transitions by placing different patches on different tracks but this is logistic mayhem.
I simply hate every extra track included so I'll wait for a library which can do that on a single track...
For now I'm recording live violin/viola A pity I don't have a french horn, I love it and would learn.

Meanwhile I got this MIDI controller but my modwheel problem has transformed into something else.
Now it's CineBrass, it has ModWheel dynamics default. I started gently, with pianissimo - like this:



It looks and sounds fine but only the first time played through, then it "forgets" the curve.
Next playthroughs ignore it and play constant full forte unless I use standard CC7 (volume).

Any clues?

[ijijn]

Hmm, I'm not really sure what's going on there.

I have no experience with Berlin Strings at all but I've used a few Cinesamples instruments and have never had problems with them responding to CCs. Have you contacted them about it, or are you also using an ... unofficial version of this one?

You could try using VI Scout and VI Contour from my VI Folio collection to generate smooth CC curves automatically based on note velocity, if that helps at all?

I don't write curves any more because they tend to be rather problematic and clumsy to deal with, at least in my experience. But then again, I'm also a composer who will never use more than a single MIDI track to score an entire piece of music.

[Skrzypiec]

Originally Posted by ijijn

are you also using an ... unofficial version of this one?

Here you work for six months to afford one library, I would die before buying them all.
I download, mark libraries to buy, bin the rest. I don't sell music made before buy.
Cinebrass is one of few I found good enough, so I might contact them indeed.
In other cases, the free Sonatina caused less issues and had enough quality.

But here the problem is rather with reaper, as it occurs for almost all libraries.
Possibly it's supposed to happen, like parameters latching or something.
I will try to explain it better soon, sorry for late reply - it all goes very slow.
Many things distract me recently but December should be music first.

I got the Folio pack, thank you

[Skrzypiec]

I can't believe it's been almost a year tho.
I spent a lot of time battling my computer, then Orchestral Tools.
Anyway I'm back to the very same problem, in a different form.

I bought a MIDI controller (novation launchkey) so I can use the modwheel.
Now the thing is whenever I play with using the modwheel, it works correctly.
But then when I play it back, the modhweel data (expression, volume, xfade) is skipped.

I found no way to assign the modwheel to an envelope and automate it to be written.
What am I doing wrong?

And glad to see you again

[EvilDragon]

If the track is armed for recording and its input is set to Record: MIDI, all modwheel movements should be promptly recorded into MIDI item(s) as you go along. Works fine here

[Tod]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

If the track is armed for recording and its input is set to Record: MIDI, all modwheel movements should be promptly recorded into MIDI item(s) as you go along. Works fine here

Yeah, here too.

From what I understand Berlin Strings uses the speed that the key is pressed to determine how the legato plays. Now I'm not sure what that controller is, maybe ED knows? It could be "Channel Pressure", not sure.

Also, the velocities seem to be involved, velocities 125 to 127 give you portamento slides.

I assume there must be a manual that should explain this in great detail.

[Skrzypiec]

Hm yes, now it works... weird because I tried a lot of times before and it didn't...
Oh well. Probably I clicked on something so the data was excluded from recording...
Only I have absolutely no idea what it was - if it bugs out again I'll let you know.
Thank you

[Colox]

You've kept trying for a whole year?!?

[Skrzypiec]

Nah. My time management just sucks. I was trying tons of things in the meantime, then it took me more time to reply... as you can see also now. I eventually ditched Berlin Strings, never used it for any real-life project, instead I bought Sptitfire libraries cause it finally feels like I found the only package which doesn't annoy me

[ernzo]

I also expected more of Berlin Strings..

It's hard to summarize, and they are indeed very Realistic sounding,
but they have a character of their own which is not easy to blend..

Even when it features many Mic positions, the Mix is never quite right/pleasing, and the dynamic response feels a bit Raw or untidy at times.

You would expect the famous Teldex Hall to help, but nah it doesn't,
not at all!


All in all I think good old Cinestrings is a better deal right now..
even if some of the patches are a bit "soft", it's got very nice sound right out of the box, and the mic positions are very usable too;
also it's overall an easier tool to work with..


LASS 2 is another must have, wonderful library for detailed and intricate material, great articulations;
it helps you capture all the fine detail that other libraries are just too rough/massive/slow for..

The Contra is, LASS is recorded Dry,
so you need to rely on the very powerful (KS), yet quite bogus and Dull sounding ARC.. or just EQ the hell out of them strings and work with the reverb to accommodate on the mix.


EWQL Hollywood Orchestra's Strings are also an element worth to consider..
It's all very well Produced and the Dynamics are very nice and polished;
However like all the collection it's known to have a considerably Bright/Trebly signature sound which may or may not please you/fit your palette/style.


I've demoed some of the Spitfire material.
I can't recall the exact collection, but they're some of the Finest and most realistic libraries out there..
However I found them to be too overly WARM for my taste, and it didn't blend as good or directly with my actual sound/palette of timbres.

Also at this level (Spitfire, Vienna and up..) the size of libraries is so bloody Massive it starts to become a reel issue!