Old 01-13-2020, 12:07 PM   #1
pipelineaudio
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Default Recording over ethernet

I can seemingly play tracks just fine over the network here, but am i safe to record 1 or two tracks at a time to a different computer on the network?

How can I tell how fast my network is? I don't think I have the superfast type
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:52 PM   #2
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Several interface manufacturers have implemented Dante based protocols in their products that do just this. Focusrite's RedNet is the one that immediately comes to mind, but I know there are others.

One of the things that they all have in common is a switch configuration that makes use of TCP precedence to ensure the audio gets there before you cat pictures.

Whether Reaper can do it without interface help, I don't know, but I have seen very few things that it can't do so it wouldn't surprise me.
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:53 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
I can seemingly play tracks just fine over the network here, but am i safe to record 1 or two tracks at a time to a different computer on the network?

How can I tell how fast my network is? I don't think I have the superfast type
Such as the files being on a network share (which is usually SMB)? I'd consider it slow, buggy and potentially corrupting (for audio file streams) if that's the case - An open file across the network is different than an open file on the local disk. I mean you can try recording and see where the ceiling is but the ceiling is a moving performance target and my expectation is that any failure may result in a corrupt file.

To see the speed if files over network, copy a 1GB file across and see how long it takes, but networks are dynamic so conditions and speeds will vary minus something like QoS and it working well.
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:10 PM   #4
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Reaper can do it. In fact, I haven't come across an audio app that couldn't talk to an ethernet audio source. But I haven't looked at the audiophile players. I bet some of those will break that rule.

As Jerome said, it's not even hard. You just need the right hardware. Switches need the right QOS. However, in a point-to-point application, you don't even need a switch.

When it comes to the ethernet chips, most modern Gbit ethernet ports will do. If you're serious about audio over ip, you'll either want an Intel Server chipset, or a Xmos one. For dongles, it seems the ones with a Broadcom chipset are the safest bet.

On the Mac, everything needed for AVB is built-in. And even the ethernet to USB-C dongles seem to work. But RME, fi, choose to roll their own driver. Dante can use the Audient driver.

You can turn a Raspberry Pi4 into an 8 in, 8 out linux box if you're adventurous.
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Old 01-13-2020, 09:51 PM   #5
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Im not really talking about audio over ethernet protocols, I mean just recording onto a hard drive on another computer in the network
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:03 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Im not really talking about audio over ethernet protocols, I mean just recording onto a hard drive on another computer in the network
See my post.
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Old 01-14-2020, 06:11 AM   #7
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I have used ReaStream to send audio & record on a remote computer - it works ok but with latency

whoops - missed post 5, so not really relevant, sorry

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Old 01-14-2020, 06:12 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
How can I tell how fast my network is?
You say "Ethernet Network", so supposedly you just mean your cables.

Audio over Ethernat can use standard Ethernet frames like TCP/IP AFAIK used by Dante, or special frames such as AES50.

In any case the performance is rtestricted by the wires.

To know the type of the cables you need to take a look at them. They should have a typ specification printed on them such as CATx with "x" a number.

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Old 01-14-2020, 08:40 AM   #9
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Network speed aside Pipeline, are you able to take the audio from the studio and route it to the network somehow?

Also, not to change the subject, but is the Studio booked Saturday? For some reason, we're holding our drummer auditions Saturday at Thunder Studios.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:03 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
You say "Ethernet Network", so supposedly you just mean your cables.
Ethernet means more than the cables, the term for cables is the physical layer via OSI model so there can/will be latency throughout the network stack (Ethernet layer, IP layer, TCP layer, application layer). Ethernet is a above the physical.

That said, CAT5 is rated at 100Mbps or about 12.5 MB/s but real world will be slower based on which layer is used. CAT6 is theoretically able to transfer 10 Gbps (1.25 GB/s) but Gigabit networks, which most are now is theoretically only capable of 1 Gbps or 120 MB/s - however, much of the time, but not always the bottleneck ends up on a higher layer such as TCP - which is why DANTE and others don't go above the Ethernet layer in the OSI model.

Based on his initial question though, he's all the way up at the application layer (aka network share which uses SMB on windows) which will be slower than all others with even more latency and potential issues with file corrupting when streaming bytes to a file over SMB.

This is just academic so we know which thing(s) we are discussing.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
(aka network share which uses SMB on windows) which will be slower than all others with even more latency .
Not necessarily, if correctly configured QoS switches are used all over the place.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:21 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Not necessarily, if correctly configured QoS switches are used all over the place.
-Michael
The slowness I'm speaking of is literally the code running over and above the wire. This is why I mentioned the OSI model so we don't conflate the layers of network stack so much. SMB/network sharing is near the very top of this stack... The only exception is QoS on the OS but even that cannot speed up the higher-level protocol itself in most cases. Also, Ethernet just for our understanding is down near layer 3.



I usually prefer the DARPA model (OSI condensed) but in this discussion, OSI probably works better.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:33 PM   #13
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Thanks. I do like to have the wording clear.
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:42 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrano View Post
You can turn a Raspberry Pi4 into an 8 in, 8 out linux box if you're adventurous.
My Google-fu has failed me on this; can you give me a link or tell me more about this? Very interested.
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Old 01-15-2020, 04:24 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Im not really talking about audio over ethernet protocols, I mean just recording onto a hard drive on another computer in the network
Ah. In that case, I wouldn't do it. NFS and SMB aren't really good at high volume, fast writes. I've actually seen attempts at this cripple a Fortune 500 company's systems.

If you need portability, a good USB3 hard drive is hard to beat.
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:26 PM   #16
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Sorry. Wrong thread. Worth watching, so I'll leave it here.
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