Old 06-25-2020, 05:14 PM   #1
Narayan
Human being with feelings
 
Narayan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Scotland
Posts: 263
Default Cloning pc?

Anyone tried cloning their pc for a backup which retains complete functionality for existing Reaper projects?

Is it easier to just move to a new computer and try to copy all the files over (especially if you have a tonne of obscure Vsts, many with specific installations rather than just a dll file?

Thanks
Narayan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2020, 09:49 PM   #2
Reason
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 851
Default

Cloning works as a backup of your boot drive, or if you need to replace it, but probably won't work as well for other new hardware, eg new motherboard.

Clonezilla works well and is free; the catch is that the interface might be challenging.

What's your goal and/or use case?
Reason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020, 01:25 AM   #3
paul_c
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 40
Default

It tends to work well only when the hardware is exactly the same.
paul_c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020, 05:10 AM   #4
zookthespook
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: India Mumbai
Posts: 691
Default

Cloning is great because it almost saves 50 to 70 percent of your reinstallation .
But of course once you have everything done , there will be few pluings which will have broken registry which may call for a reinstall,
All the challenge response plugins will have to be reauthorized as the Machine ID will change. Regardless it saves huge amount of time.
zook
zookthespook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020, 08:30 AM   #5
SonicAxiom
Human being with feelings
 
SonicAxiom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,131
Default

If you intend cloning a current system to a new computer with different hardware components I recommend using either Macrium Reflect inc. their "ReDeploy" functionality or AOMEI Backupper incl. "Universal Resore" feature which can also clone a system to a computer with dissimilar hardware.

After the cloning process, to make the new computer's system entirely independent from the cloned one, you will have to enter the serial number of the new operating system. You will also have to renew/reinstall various plugin and program licenses to make the respective applications and plugins work on the new machine. Depending on the nature of their licenses, you may have to first deactivate licenses on the old system to be able to re-activate them on the new machine.

As far as I remember, the older AOMEI Backupper Free 2.5 version is the last free version of their backupper application family that has the "Universal Restore" built in. Recent free versions don't have this feature inclused anymore.

If you had all Reaper-related data (Reaper program, Plugins, plugin libraries, samples, etc.) stored on your C:\ drive, then everything will be cloned with the source computer's system image. Else, you will have to backup and transfer this data manually separately. It's recommended avoiding to store Reaper project data on the OS partition so you shouldn't continue doing this on your new machine.

.
__________________
[Check out my free VST plugin collection here.]
SonicAxiom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020, 08:47 AM   #6
toleolu
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Sunshine and palm trees.
Posts: 1,770
Default

If you're looking at buying a new system, your best bet, if it's possible in your situation, would be to run both computers. Use your old computer for existing projects and the new system for new projects.

May seem a bit convoluted up front, and it is to a certain extent, but cloning an old system drive and trying to use that in a completely new computer will probably end up being a lot more work. Plus, there's no telling what kind of annoying little issues will crop up down the road.
toleolu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020, 01:36 PM   #7
zookthespook
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: India Mumbai
Posts: 691
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicAxiom View Post
If you intend cloning a current system to a new computer with different hardware components I recommend using either Macrium Reflect inc. their "ReDeploy" functionality or AOMEI Backupper incl. "Universal Resore" feature which can also clone a system to a computer with dissimilar hardware.

After the cloning process, to make the new computer's system entirely independent from the cloned one, you will have to enter the serial number of the new operating system. You will also have to renew/reinstall various plugin and program licenses to make the respective applications and plugins work on the new machine. Depending on the nature of their licenses, you may have to first deactivate licenses on the old system to be able to re-activate them on the new machine.

As far as I remember, the older AOMEI Backupper Free 2.5 version is the last free version of their backupper application family that has the "Universal Restore" built in. Recent free versions don't have this feature inclused anymore.

If you had all Reaper-related data (Reaper program, Plugins, plugin libraries, samples, etc.) stored on your C:\ drive, then everything will be cloned with the source computer's system image. Else, you will have to backup and transfer this data manually separately. It's recommended avoiding to store Reaper project data on the OS partition so you shouldn't continue doing this on your new machine.

.
Wow didn't know something like this existed !
thank you !
zook
zookthespook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020, 02:38 PM   #8
Allybye
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 140
Default

Another vote for Macrium Reflect.
Great for cloning imaging whole drives, a selection of partitions, (in the paid for version) selected files or folders or cloning HDD to bootable SSD. It includes scheduling.

Acronis also good too and is recommended as part of Seagate's disc utilities free software.

As a policy I agree with separation of OS and data best on separate drives if not separate partitions allow even the free Reflect to backup OS and data separately.
Allybye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020, 02:59 PM   #9
maralatho
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Santa Barbara
Posts: 102
Default

I use Casper. So far as I know, it's the only cloning software for Windows which can make incremental, bootable clones à la Super Duper and Carbon Copy Cloner on the Mac.

When I built a new Ryzen system, I was able to boot it directly from the backup of my Intel system which I'd maintained for several years using Casper. All I had to do after it booted up for the first time was install a few AMD drivers from the motherboard driver installer.

All my apps continued to work, I didn't have to reinstall anything, and all of my Reaper projects opened up without issue.

Also, my Windows 10 Pro OEM license automatically became a digital license linked to my Microsoft account. I didn't have to buy a new copy of Windows.
maralatho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020, 03:07 PM   #10
cassembler
Human being with feelings
 
cassembler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 323
Default

I'm going to add a vote to the "re-install from scratch" camp, for a few reasons:

1) As others have said, moving hardware platforms (Mobo/chipset/CPU, etc.) at best will leave you with installed drivers you don't need
2) Installing Windows 10 from scratch literally takes 5-30 minutes
3) Manually installing the application layer on top of that is an _excellent_ opportunity to naturally prune out the flotsam you don't need or use

By far, FAR, the hardest part of re-installation is the copy protection/authorization schemes used by plugins. Moving from one PC to another will still require some level of re-authorizations, so I'd say the benefits outweigh the cons.

Big exceptions are if you're building machines with a proper master image/sysprep/staging process, or maybe only swapping out a hard drive, etc.
__________________
It helps if the hitter thinks you're a little crazy
- Nolan Ryan
cassembler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020, 03:29 PM   #11
vanceen
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 165
Default

Re-installing is usually my first choice, even though my VSTs take me most of a day to re-install.

However, I recently did a re-install from scratch and (for reasons not worth going into) I had to set up Windows 10 from scratch again. I used EaseUS Todo's backup software, which has a function for restoring to new hardware, and it worked perfectly. Even most of the plug-ins were fine, although a number of them had to be re-authorized.

It's not perfect, but I haven't found a better utility for cloning.
vanceen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2020, 03:30 PM   #12
Narayan
Human being with feelings
 
Narayan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Scotland
Posts: 263
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reason View Post
Cloning works as a backup of your boot drive, or if you need to replace it, but probably won't work as well for other new hardware, eg new motherboard.

Clonezilla works well and is free; the catch is that the interface might be challenging.

What's your goal and/or use case?
Thanks for the tip. I'll check out Clonezilla. Can you elaborate on what you mean by challenging? The ideal aim would be to upgrade to a system with better performance, and retain the old one as a backup. But I might have to settle for a backup of the drive. The concern is what if there is an issue with a part of the computer which could not be fixed with my drive backup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_c View Post
It tends to work well only when the hardware is exactly the same.
There are some very similar ones to mine for sale, but they are very overpriced for their age.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zookthespook View Post
Cloning is great because it almost saves 50 to 70 percent of your reinstallation .
But of course once you have everything done , there will be few pluings which will have broken registry which may call for a reinstall,
All the challenge response plugins will have to be reauthorized as the Machine ID will change. Regardless it saves huge amount of time.
zook
Can registry info and ID info (Is this the Windows product ID for their OS?) not be replicated in cloning?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicAxiom View Post
If you intend cloning a current system to a new computer with different hardware components I recommend using either Macrium Reflect inc. their "ReDeploy" functionality or AOMEI Backupper incl. "Universal Resore" feature which can also clone a system to a computer with dissimilar hardware........

.
Thanks for the pointers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allybye View Post
As a policy I agree with separation of OS and data best on separate drives if not separate partitions allow even the free Reflect to backup OS and data separately.
Sorry I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are partitions not for backing up info on the same drive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maralatho View Post
I use Casper. So far as I know, it's the only cloning software for Windows which can make incremental, bootable clones à la Super Duper and Carbon Copy Cloner on the Mac.

When I built a new Ryzen system, I was able to boot it directly from the backup of my Intel system which I'd maintained for several years using Casper. All I had to do after it booted up for the first time was install a few AMD drivers from the motherboard driver installer.

All my apps continued to work, I didn't have to reinstall anything, and all of my Reaper projects opened up without issue.

Also, my Windows 10 Pro OEM license automatically became a digital license linked to my Microsoft account. I didn't have to buy a new copy of Windows.
Sounds very interesting. So were you cloning to an external drive which you used to boot the new system?



Thanks for all of the responses.
Narayan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2020, 09:00 AM   #13
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 9,145
Default

Cloning is SOP for me.

OS installs for OSX started installing packages specific to hardware recently. That kind of breaks the ability to boot any startup disk on any machine. So you can't always boot a different set of hardware from your system drive from another system as mentioned. This has been an issue with Windows even longer as I understand. That aside...

I clone all my drives (system and data) for backups. I like Carbon Copy Cloner.
Use this as a safety net in addition to backups. Going to download something "funny"? Make sure your backup clone for your system drive is up to date first. If that install indeed turns out "funny", you can boot into your backup drive and clone back and overwrite the primary. A magic reset button as it were that doesn't require you to learn how to undo whatever you did manually. Having multiple hard drives laying around that boot your machine is a good idea in general. A computer with no system drive is an expensive paperweight.

Make a clone to a disk image file when you first put together your system (OS and app installs and configuration). That will be a master for your system should a backup clone become corrupt. (The scenario where you run a backup from a corrupt primary without realizing it.)

Most cloning apps have a archive feature to keep deleted/modified files as space permits as well.
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2020, 09:05 AM   #14
maralatho
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Santa Barbara
Posts: 102
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narayan View Post
Sounds very interesting. So were you cloning to an external drive which you used to boot the new system?
I clone to internal drives (internal drives are nearly always faster than external drives), so if I have a problem, I can just boot into the UEFI and choose my backup as the boot drive. But it works with externals too.
maralatho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2020, 09:24 AM   #15
Reason
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 851
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narayan View Post
Thanks for the tip. I'll check out Clonezilla. Can you elaborate on what you mean by challenging?
You install it on a USB drive and boot into a separate operating system. It looks like a BIOS screen and I want to say it must be navigated by keyboard, although mouse might work. Drives are identified by their hardware IDs, eg "ST3000-G472" or something, rather than a nice shiny "Seagate 3tb". It can be figured out, and there are tutorials on YouTube, but it doesn't hold your hand.
Reason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2020, 01:21 PM   #16
Narayan
Human being with feelings
 
Narayan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Scotland
Posts: 263
Default

Thanks all.
Narayan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2020, 02:08 PM   #17
Allybye
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 140
Default

Sorry, missed your partition query...

When discs are used the available memory (or just some of it) on them is designated into areas known as partitions. There can be one or more on a disc. Each is individually defined for things like size, file system in use (like FAT or NTFS or others) whether they are primary partition, bootable partitions, system etc. In simple situation they are just divisions of a drive. If user available they can be given differing drive letters such as C or D etc. In that case they logically looks like separate drives but are part of the same 'hard' surface (or memory in the case of an SSD). Partitions have to be defined to use a disc but often not a job for the user.
As well as a common memory 'surface' they shares the other functions of a drive such as input output handling so, all other things being equal, separate partitions in use are slower than two different physical drives.

A lot more too it than that if interested do a search and look at a Wickie or a quick read https://www.howtogeek.com/184659/beg...ons-explained/.

Not places to be played with unless you know what you are doing!!!!!

Cloning, backups etc can be done partition to partition be they on the same or different discs. I noted the method posted of cloning to another internal disc for speed (or indeed partitions on the same disc). That is not something I would advocate. It will usually be faster but it is not as safe for two reasons.

Maybe a low risk but being within the PC there is more risk of malware infecting it as well as the other internal discs.

Being electrically connected and in the same physical location there is an enhanced risk of a power supply problems/lighting etc. damaging it or a fire destroying it, the backup, along with the main storage.

It depends on your risk tolerence to data loss, your OS, Programs or all those recordings!

Last edited by Allybye; 06-28-2020 at 02:17 PM.
Allybye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2020, 03:03 PM   #18
cassembler
Human being with feelings
 
cassembler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 323
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narayan View Post
Can registry info and ID info (Is this the Windows product ID for their OS?) not be replicated in cloning?
One thing that most modern schemes do is reference some unique identifier from local hardware, e.g. motherboard serial number. When this number changes, the "key" that licensed something is no longer valid - it needs to be re-authorized.

That's oversimplified, but is frequently why activated licenses need to be updated when cloning.
__________________
It helps if the hitter thinks you're a little crazy
- Nolan Ryan
cassembler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2020, 06:28 PM   #19
Patrice Brousseau
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Montréal, Québec province in Canada
Posts: 112
Default

I use Terabyte Image for Windows since more than ten years. I can even clone MacOS partition with it. It is OS agnostic and saved my Windows installations a few times (my BootCamp on my MBP as an example.

I’ve used it also to clone a MacOS hard drive(cough! cough! Hackintosh...).

Like latest poster said, unfortunately, hardware changes trigger re-authorization (but there is a trick on Hackintoshes...).
Patrice Brousseau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 12:58 PM   #20
gpunk_w
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,365
Default

Cloning has gone up a notch on Windows 10 (you know, that OS that is the worst OS that MS ever released hahaha)
While it does take up install space, a Win 10 install has every MS basic driver that is possible to have now, so for example you can even install Win 10 on any machine, then put that drive in any other machine and a couple driver updates it all works fine (It is actually a standard practice now on machines that have install issues, I use it all the time.
That is something that really wouldn't work well with any Windows pre 10.
__________________
Reaper scripters, that is all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gpunk_w is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2020, 07:42 AM   #21
LugNut
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: So Florida
Posts: 1,043
Default

Hi,
Timely.

I just finished my new daw machine. Built with win7 64. Got all my old data and most of my old plug ins. The sys drive is a 500 gig ssd.

I have a spare 1 tb seagate 7200 internal in a box.

What should be my plan for a straight clone of the ssd. Are there any free tools that are reliable?

In the past I've just backed up songs,sounds on a seperate drive and have always just reinstalled all manualy if I ever had a major issue.
Now, I need to try and install a new win7 theme, have always used the Zune theme on xp. I'm afraid of this 3rd party theme thing breaking my new install.

Any advice?

Guido
LugNut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2020, 09:59 AM   #22
toleolu
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Sunshine and palm trees.
Posts: 1,770
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LugNut View Post

What should be my plan for a straight clone of the ssd. Are there any free tools that are reliable?
Windows 7 has a built in System Image (clone) backup utility. It's very basic and doesn't give you any bells or whistles, but I still use it on Windows 10. I've successfully restored my system a couple of times using it.

You can put that spare spinner drive in the case and use that as the destination drive for your Windows System Image. But honestly, if I were you, I would put that spinner in the case and use if for data files, audio files, projects, etc. (That's assuming you don't have that already.) The reason for that, is if all your data is on your system drive, if you ever have to restore the image, (clone) it will overwrite all that data. You'll also need to create a startup, or repair disk, but you get prompted for that.

I use a SSD drive for my OS and programs, and I have an old spinner as a separate drive for all my data. I connect a USB SSD to my computer for the System Image, then put that USB drive back in it's original packaging and stick in a drawer. I create a new System Image every 6 months or so, more often if I install any new software or updates. I also use that USB SSD for may data backup, but since I have all my data on a separate drive, all I do is copy and paste all the root folders on the D: drive to the USB drive. Very basic and not real fancy, but it works.

The cloning tools mentioned here are very good, and do provide a lot more options, but maybe a short term solution for you would be to use the Windows System Image for now, just so you get the clone created so you have it if you need it, and then explore other options that may be better suited for your needs.

Cloning your system drive is also your best defense against malware and viruses. If you pick up something nasty, just restore that system image and you're back in business.
toleolu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2020, 12:31 PM   #23
LugNut
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: So Florida
Posts: 1,043
Default

Hi,
Thx for the response.
I tried the Seagate and it made noise....like a hum. Couldn't mount it the way I wanted. Pulled it back out.
I do have all my stuff seperated tho. Os 500 ssd is only for sys and programs. I have a 1tb ssd for samples. And a different 7200 2 tb WD for projects/audio data.
I DL macrium reflect free and am using a WD passport USB drive to try to write a clone of the os to a folder. Not really sure I'm doing it right tho. :-)
LugNut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2020, 06:13 AM   #24
ChrisBlue
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 312
Default

just marking this thread for future. I use Macrium but surprisingly a lot of what is discussed here was never mentioned. Although I will say Macrium have been pretty helpful
ChrisBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2020, 07:06 AM   #25
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 9,145
Default

Just for further clarity on the usual options in a cloning app.

You need a hard drive volume with an OS installed to boot a machine.
Cloning a drive with OS installed to another hard drive volume gives you just that.

You can also clone to a disk image file. A disk image file will open as a volume you can copy from. (Many installers are delivered this way. You're opening a volume structure. Volume is the next level above folder, FYI.)
You cannot boot from a disk image file! Not even if you open it. You use this for a master backup copy. What you CAN do here is clone a disk image file back to a hard drive volume and boot that.

Cloning to a folder? I'm not familiar with seeing that. The disk image file seems like a more 'proper' choice. Neither one is bootable... might as well make a disk image that preserves the volume structure. Could just be semantics with another app and they actually mean disk image file.


Then there are the Time Machine style backup apps. These do NOT clone your hard drive volume! You cannot boot from a Time Machine backup! (Note, this is Apple's version of this. There will be this style of app available for Windows too.) This kind of app is user friendly. Any time you plug in your backup drive, new files found are copied to it. Restoring from this requires manually installing OS. Then you can use system migration to restore your data from the Time Machine backup. It doesn't include a copy of your OS install and it isn't just an image of the whole drive volume.


Keeping an external drive or 3 kicking around that can boot your machine is a good idea. Like spare keys. It can really make the difference between mild inconvenience and really bad day!
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.