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Old 08-14-2019, 08:42 PM   #1
Franga
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Default Crash when rendering extremely long timestretched audio

Hi there,

I am attempting to render a very long durational piece (approximately 2,000 hours) and Reaper keeps quitting unexpectedly giving me the same error message of 'Reaper quit unexpectedly).

Am I just shit out of luck and Reaper can't handle rendering this? Is there something I am missing?

FYI the mp3 file is extremely small as it contains an 8Khz sample rate and 8bit bit depth. Should be less than 100GB in size.

Any help or advice is appreciated! Thanks
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:19 PM   #2
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Heheh, 100GB mp3 would be extremely large. Do you have enough disk space? I think you have to turn on the low disk space warning or you'll just crash without one.

I'm really curious what the purpose of rendering a 2000 hour, 8-bit audio file would be...

Maybe take a loot at the options in prefs/recording.

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Old 08-14-2019, 09:53 PM   #3
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Hmm 2,000 hours is pretty long, however, if you're rendering to 8khz 8kbps mp3, that only works out to 2,000 * 60 * 60 * 1000 bytes long, which is 7.2GB. Which isn't too crazy.

If we had a crash report that might help. You can often get it by opening the console.app (I assume this is macOS?)... Are you using the 64-bit version of REAPER, and do you have a lot of RAM? Can you see what the RAM use of REAPER is before the crash?
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Old 08-14-2019, 10:04 PM   #4
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I have no useful contribution, with the possible exception of asking if the same thing happens with a render to WAV (for subsequent conversion in external software), but I'd assume that would make the issue worse, not better.

But I actually posted because I'm extremely curious about the purpose of this MP3. That's not a criticism of any kind, just genuinely curious.
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:03 AM   #5
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Thanks for the feedback so far guys, appreciate it!

Tomorrow I will have a look at gathering a crash report. I am indeed running 64x macOS. Think there is 8GB of RAM on the machine. How should I gather the report? What is there to copy and paste here? Can't remember what it looked like but will try again tomorrow.

As for the purpose of this audio... well I'm not sure how much I should give away but basically it is for an artistic project I am currently working on.

The work (entitled 'you are the music while the music lasts') is an online radio stream that is set to play non-stop for the next 100 or so years. This station will be broadcasting the music of famous musicians who abused their power and status in order to abuse others (think R Kelly, xxxTentacion, Miles Davis, Steven Tyler, Bill Wyman, Michael Jackson etc). I've approached this from a basic musique concrete perspective and am intent on creating an alternative mode of listening to these abusive musicians to help society reflect upon their listening habits and to promote a reconsideration of our sonic footprints.

Each musician has their body of work (their albums) compiled vertically to all play simultaneously to create a cacophony of sound; a process piece. Each track is its own concrete material in the musique concrete process. This is then compressed down to a single mono track and then time stretched out to the duration of the prison sentence these musicians evaded for their misdemeanors and felonies. These tracks are then streamed live from a virtual machine run server player that is accessible to the public by means of QR codes around town and online. The stream will be up for the next 100 years as many of these musicians take between 5 months to 27 years co complete their 'sonic sentence'.

Hope that helps...

Any advice?
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:50 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franga View Post
Thanks for the feedback so far guys, appreciate it!

Tomorrow I will have a look at gathering a crash report. I am indeed running 64x macOS. Think there is 8GB of RAM on the machine. How should I gather the report? What is there to copy and paste here? Can't remember what it looked like but will try again tomorrow.

As for the purpose of this audio... well I'm not sure how much I should give away but basically it is for an artistic project I am currently working on.

The work (entitled 'you are the music while the music lasts') is an online radio stream that is set to play non-stop for the next 100 or so years. This station will be broadcasting the music of famous musicians who abused their power and status in order to abuse others (think R Kelly, xxxTentacion, Miles Davis, Steven Tyler, Bill Wyman, Michael Jackson etc). I've approached this from a basic musique concrete perspective and am intent on creating an alternative mode of listening to these abusive musicians to help society reflect upon their listening habits and to promote a reconsideration of our sonic footprints.

Each musician has their body of work (their albums) compiled vertically to all play simultaneously to create a cacophony of sound; a process piece. Each track is its own concrete material in the musique concrete process. This is then compressed down to a single mono track and then time stretched out to the duration of the prison sentence these musicians evaded for their misdemeanors and felonies. These tracks are then streamed live from a virtual machine run server player that is accessible to the public by means of QR codes around town and online. The stream will be up for the next 100 years as many of these musicians take between 5 months to 27 years co complete their 'sonic sentence'.

Hope that helps...

Any advice?
Brilliant but insane.. good luck with it..
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Old 08-15-2019, 06:22 AM   #7
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Yes, pretty left field but very interesting.
As to the rendering problem - maybe do "chunks in REAPER"that don't crash and "stitch" the resulting mp3s in another program such as Audition?
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:48 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franga View Post
8Khz sample rate and 8bit bit depth.
this is going to sound absolutely horrible. increase the sample rate to 16Khz, it will make a huuuge world of difference.

(I have done many many listening tests at low sampling rates and can definitively state that 16khz as minimum will add a huge improvement in quality)
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:33 AM   #9
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Interesting. This project sounds pretty punishing to the listener tho, tbh. Broadcasting 100 years of cacophony because people in the public eye have had their dirty laundry dragged out for all to see?

Idk. People are imperfect and power will tend to corrupt. That's all I'm gonna say.

Back to topic, I bet your low RAM is preventing the generation of such huge files. You might have to use the splitting option in prefs.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:39 AM   #10
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I suggesting making a playlist. There's no commonly-used standard for adding chapters to an MP3 so even concert-length or movie-length MP3s are hard to "manage". If you buy an MP3 album from Amazon or an AAC album from iTunes (live or studio) you get separate files for each song.


It's going to get interrupted (by an Internet outage, or a power outage, or who-knows-what) and it's easier to re-start a playlist in the middle that to find the right place and re-start an MP3 in the middle.


100 years is silly. MP3s probably won't be in use in 100 years and if the Internet exists it will be different.


If you started this project 100 years ago you'd be playing 78 RPM records, and maybe broadcasting on AM or shortwave radio... Nobody knows what they'll be using in 100 years and neither you or anybody else will be around to keep this thing going.
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Old 08-15-2019, 12:16 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superblonde.org View Post
this is going to sound absolutely horrible. increase the sample rate to 16Khz, it will make a huuuge world of difference.
I am quite sure the original poster doesn't give a damn about the sound quality, or has factored in that as part of the art work...
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Old 08-15-2019, 12:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVDdoug View Post

is silly.
"art project"
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Old 08-17-2019, 04:36 PM   #13
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Thanks again for the replies and suggestions. Was interesting reading through these and seeing the various reactions.

I tried rendering again and received the same message. The desktop has 32 GB of RAM, a 4 Ghz i7 and 2 TB of HDD. I don't think this is the problem? It is, however, running through a university system so could they be putting some kind of restriction upon it to prevent it from using space?

I have attached the error report in the hopes that somebody will spot something out of place.

Can anyone please help me figure this out? I would be eternally grateful...
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Reaper notes.pdf (90.1 KB, 6 views)
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Old 08-17-2019, 05:13 PM   #14
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Looks like it may be an allocation error within elastique (it doesn't look like you're out of memory, perhaps elastique has an overflow issue and tries to allocate a negative amount). What stretch ratio are you using? You could try using Rubberband Library and see if it works better for this type of thing.
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Old 08-17-2019, 07:16 PM   #15
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another suggestion (altho a bug in mp3 render is no good) is to export to ogg. it you want something to last 100 years then there are many reasons to choose ogg which is an open format and makes an art statement in that regard, plus it will probably sound better. whatever player you are using I am sure supports ogg playback. you could even do 16 khz sample rate in the project (for better audio as I mentioned) and then export to a lower bit rate in ogg for a smaller file (for your own convenience) which mp3 does not support while ogg does, and the bitrate would sound much better in ogg than mp3.
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Old 08-18-2019, 03:32 PM   #16
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Hi again. I experimented with different stretch methods and found that the Rubber Band Library seems to work and have not seen any crashes... will keep you updated though!

Here is a link to an hour segment sample from the render:

https://vimeo.com/352424609

As you can see it is actually quite beautiful in my humble opinion

Thanks for your help, it is greatly appreciated!
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Old 08-19-2019, 10:40 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franga View Post
Hi again. I experimented with different stretch methods and found that the Rubber Band Library seems to work and have not seen any crashes... will keep you updated though!

Here is a link to an hour segment sample from the render:

https://vimeo.com/352424609

As you can see it is actually quite beautiful in my humble opinion

Thanks for your help, it is greatly appreciated!
Thanks! Can you send a .rpp file that crashes during render (with elastique enabled or whatnot) to support at cockos.com so that we can try to duplicate/fix the original error? No need to send media, but if you could tell us the samplerate/channel count/length of the media that might be helpful.
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