Any tips for getting rid of "pops" when using EWQL Play?

Ethannoise · 08-28-2011, 04:53 PM

Hello all,

I am getting annoying POPS in Reaper. They didn;t used to happen but for some reason they are happening all over the shop. Mostly with Kontakt and PLAY.

Reaper support have been amazing and I've been back and forth with them but still not able to fix it - so I was wondering if there were any basic "pop" solving tips people have found regardless of the VST being used?

This could be a really useful thread for people like me, or a really tedious one, or both...!

Thankings...

Doughboy · 08-28-2011, 05:00 PM

I never fail to read a good "pop"/"stutter" thread. Just waiting for the one answer to be the correct one that may improve the quality of my life.

EpicSounds · 08-28-2011, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethannoise

Hello all,

I am getting annoying POPS in Reaper. They didn;t used to happen but for some reason they are happening all over the shop. Mostly with Kontakt and PLAY.

Reaper support have been amazing and I've been back and forth with them but still not able to fix it - so I was wondering if there were any basic "pop" solving tips people have found regardless of the VST being used?

This could be a really useful thread for people like me, or a really tedious one, or both...!

Thankings...

Digital recording 101 stuff. Increase your buffer size. The system can't keep up.
After that, install more RAM, you'll need a lot to run Kontakt and PLAY sample based instruments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doughboy

I never fail to read a good "pop"/"stutter" thread. Just waiting for the one answer to be the correct one that may improve the quality of my life.

No idea what you're talking about. Definitely not helpful to the OP.

Ollie · 08-28-2011, 05:34 PM

To fill ya' all in, this starts with this thread

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=86137

Long story short, Play is being used in REAPER running as remote VST host and it used to work before without pops, after upgrading to REAPER 4 the pops came up and even downgrading to v2.x doesn't remove the pops again. I think most of the basic things (DPC latency, processes...) have been chewed on so far.

Doughboy · 08-28-2011, 06:51 PM

ignore sigh

EpicSounds · 08-28-2011, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollie

To fill ya' all in, this starts with this thread

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=86137

Long story short, Play is being used in REAPER running as remote VST host and it used to work before without pops, after upgrading to REAPER 4 the pops came up and even downgrading to v2.x doesn't remove the pops again. I think most of the basic things (DPC latency, processes...) have been chewed on so far.

That's pretty strange behavior.

Ethannoise · 08-29-2011, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollie

To fill ya' all in, this starts with this thread

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=86137

Long story short, Play is being used in REAPER running as remote VST host and it used to work before without pops, after upgrading to REAPER 4 the pops came up and even downgrading to v2.x doesn't remove the pops again. I think most of the basic things (DPC latency, processes...) have been chewed on so far.

Ahhh so it is YOU who has been patiently trying to help me?! You sir, are a legend...

I didn't give too much info on the issue to try and get some people to come in and comment before seeing it was mostly about PLAY and turn and leave!

I should point out though, the pops are gone if I use PLAY 1.2.5 in Reaper 4 - so my thinking is it is a PLAY issue more than reaper...

bluzkat · 08-29-2011, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethannoise

Ahhh so it is YOU who has been patiently trying to help me?! You sir, are a legend...

Ollie? Whaaaaattt??

dea-man · 08-30-2011, 07:38 AM

I think if you get rid of MOM's first, POP's will surely go with her!

Ethannoise · 08-31-2011, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluzkat

Ollie? Whaaaaattt??

Is it not him? I figured it was as he knew so much about my issue...!

maxdembo · 08-31-2011, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dea-man

I think if you get rid of MOM's first, POP's will surely go with her!

This joke deserves way more love. I applaud thee, sir!

Ollie · 08-31-2011, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethannoise

I should point out though, the pops are gone if I use PLAY 1.2.5 in Reaper 4 - so my thinking is it is a PLAY issue more than reaper...

Yeah that's an important point, however the puzzling thing is that you had it working before. We were just not successful in finding the condition that changed after upgrading/downgrading. I'm going to change the thread title to have "Play" in it, what we need is people who had similar problems with it.

Have you ever tried playing with the "Media buffer size" and "Render-ahead" in Preferences->Audio->Buffering? Maybe decreasing the former and increasing the latter?

Rachmaninoff · 08-31-2011, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethannoise

I am getting annoying POPS in Reaper. They didn;t used to happen but for some reason they are happening all over the shop. Mostly with Kontakt and PLAY.

Currently I have a project with some heavy EWQLSO use, and I have no issues. I don't use Play however, I'm using Kontakt with DFD (Direct From Disk) stuff, and it runs smoothly and with absolutely no pops.

peter5992 · 08-31-2011, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethannoise

Hello all,

I am getting annoying POPS in Reaper. They didn;t used to happen but for some reason they are happening all over the shop. Mostly with Kontakt and PLAY.

Reaper support have been amazing and I've been back and forth with them but still not able to fix it - so I was wondering if there were any basic "pop" solving tips people have found regardless of the VST being used?

This could be a really useful thread for people like me, or a really tedious one, or both...!

Thankings...

Can you provide more details on your hardware setup?

Reaper works fine with Play and Kontakt and Omnisphere, for me at least. Not just on small projects, but projects with over a hundred tracks and hundreds of effects and plugins.

Ollie · 08-31-2011, 09:28 PM

What we probably didn't check in particular is your sample rate settings - Mercado Negro just reminded me that there can be performance issues when the project sample rate is different from the sample format. Is it possible that this has changed from your previously working installation?

Ethannoise · 09-01-2011, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter5992

Can you provide more details on your hardware setup?

Reaper works fine with Play and Kontakt and Omnisphere, for me at least. Not just on small projects, but projects with over a hundred tracks and hundreds of effects and plugins.

Hi Peter,

I have a Windows 7 machine
- 12g Ram
- RME HDSP Soundcard (running at 256)
- Samples spread over 4 WD Caviar Blacks
- PLAY 3 (EWQLSO Plat plus running all 3 mics on the strings but no convolution reverb),
- Kontakt/Spectrasonics/Superior Drummer 2
- All plugins running at 64 bit

I used to be able to run a fairly large template with no trouble... But now... I get pops - mostly it seems to be on the strings - I run the strings outside of Reaper I can get by with no pops (for the most part, though they still happen in Reaper sometimes.)

If I run a particular piece with just one instance of PLAY containing just the strings - I still get the pops...

If I roll back to the last working version of PLAY (1.2.5) I had, I can run the same thing with no pops - however, my current project (deadline looming) is all set up and saved through PLAY 3, so no roll back until this project is done.

Any thoughts you may have would be excellent...

Ethan

peter5992 · 09-01-2011, 11:59 AM

Hmm -- can't see anything obviously wrong.

There's a couple of things that you could try (given that you are a deadline I believe some of them are workarounds until you find a fix):

1. Have you tried changing the engine level settings for Play and see what that does?

2. You could use an earlier version of Play for just the strings, bounce it, and use the bounced audio file in your Play 4 project (yes it's a pain but as a last resort).

3. You might try using Reaper 32 bit in Rewire mode, and then use the rewired Play to just host the Play with strings (either 32 bit or if too large 64 bit jbridged) and route audio back into your master Reaper session. This is somewhat exoctic but it should work (I sometimes use Reaper 32 bit in Rewire mode in 64 when a video doesn't play back well which is still a bit of a crap shoot in Reaper 64). Changing back and forth between 64 and 32 bit mode shouldn't create issues, the project should load with all plugins (Play 64 bit running natively vs jbridged, respectively).

4. Also see if it makes any difference if you leave the first bar blank, if necessary by moving all midi tracks one bar to the right. Sometimes Reaper needs a little 'wake up time' to get going, especially if there are keyswitched notes right at the beginning.

5. Check if you have any funny midi notes in midi tracks that might have been created inadvertently (if you use a midi file generated by Sibelius, using Jon Loving's soundsets, they tend to have a lot of note on / off and other info which the particular Play instrument may not like very much).

6. Here's another one I can remember: Preferences > Audio > Buffering > Advanced Disk I/O Options > change from Asynchronous buffered (default) to Asynchronous unbuffered. That helped me getting rid of pops and cut off notes, a few years ago if memory serves me correctly.

Let us know how this works for you.

Ethannoise · 09-02-2011, 01:59 AM

Hi Peter,

1 - Yes, I have played with the Voices and engine in PLAY and it doesn't seem to make any difference at all...

2 - My work around at the moment is to run the strings out side of Reaper but I'm still getting Pops inside occasionally on Kontakt.

4 - I'm using Reaper to host VSTs on my slave rather than play back

6 - This was something I hadn't tried so got very excited, but again, sadly, it made no difference...

I have made an audio file to show you the extent of the "pops", to see if gives you any clues... Would you mind if I email it to you? I don't know how to post it up here!

Thanks so much for all your help Peter, I really appreciate you taking the time to write... Very kind of you.

Ethan