Old 09-21-2018, 04:30 PM   #1
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Default SD3 or BFD3 ?

Hello all,

I'm currently in a position to upgrade to either of these drum vsti.
50% off for SD3 or 75% off for BFD3.
At these rates BFD will cost me less than half the $ to upgrade than to go with SD3 ( i'm a long time SD2 user. )

If anyone has experience with both of these which way would you go ?

I'm leaning towards BFD3 as it'll be something different plus its cheaper,
but if SD3 is streets ahead some how i'd definitely consider it.

In saying that, i did buy EZdrummer 2 when it came out but as it stands i've never used it in a track, i always end up with SD2.

I may not need to upgrade at all but i'm only considering because of the upgrade saving atm

Any thoughts are much appreciated.

Cheers
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:45 PM   #2
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If it is just straight out quality of sound . . . BFD3
If some of SD3's bells and whistles are important to you . . . well.

EZD2 and SD2 pale when up against BFD3 (or SD3), you need to upgrade

I have both BFD3 and SD3, plus a lot more, for me it's BFD3 all the way, don't really touch the rest, that's just my opinion, YMMV
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Old 09-21-2018, 05:41 PM   #3
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I'm getting disheartened by VSTis and the whole treadmill.

otoh, recording satisfaction might just be around the next corner ...


I've kind-of kept an eye on SD3 and BFD3, and my own understanding is that BFD3 has the best raw sounds (and some advantages) whereas SD3 has a better gui and workflow.

Then recently someone started a thread here asking for the opinions "one-year-on" of those who bought SD3 - and it was met with a less than enthusiastic response, imo.

Which I was a bit surprised at, considering the fanfare and attention SD3 received only a year ago on its release.
_

Because of this thread I went to the fxpansion (BFD3) website.

I own a forgotten about copy of BFD Eco from years ago, which I didn't even bother to install when I did a fresh install of Windows7 maybe 3 years ago.

Now I see the price of upgrading to BFD3 (download) is ... £60.

That seems like A LOT OF DRUMS for the money.

Hmmmmm.
_
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Old 09-22-2018, 12:51 AM   #4
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I've only used BFD3 so cannot offer a comparison, but happy to offer some thoughts on BFD3.

The drum libraries and sounds are very good, especially if you route them into multitrack in Reaper. Then it's just like mixing a real kit.

The groove editor is interesting. It has fabulous drum and groove oriented features such as a drum rudiment library and kit piece / articulation oriented grid, but is very different from working in the standard MIDI editor.

It's a great facility, but takes me a lot of learning to get fluid with it. I don't program drums that often so always have to get re-acquantied each time I use it. If you used BFD3 regularly this wouldn't be an issue.

Cheers,
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Old 09-22-2018, 02:49 AM   #5
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I`M VERY BIASED - so take my opinion with a pinch of salt.
Bought Eco years ago and was unimpressed compared to other drum romplersat the time, plus they never ever offered a decent upgrade path from Eco to Full Fat BFD.

Also bought AD at the time & won Battery 3 in a contest, which is what got me started in drum rompler addiction.
I have been beta testing for Toontrack for some time, so am perhaps more comfortable with the bells and whistles in both EZD2 and SD2/3.

Looking at BFDs record on updates and more particularly the range of additional kits available, I think I have made the right decision sticking mostly with TT.
However, I too have that $60 upgrade option & even with the pound in the toilet against the dollar I may grab it just because it is so cheap.

Up to now I haven`t found the BFD drum sounds to be significantly different to everyone else`s but who knows?
It does seem to me that TT are far more active in terms of updates, upgrades and new products but, after all, it really does all come down to workflow and believable end results.

Wondering if I actually have time & "volonte" (don`t know english equivalent of this) to re-learn BFD.
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Old 09-22-2018, 10:15 AM   #6
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I'm about to upgrade from SD2 to SD3. I've been using SD2 with my Roland V Drums kit for years now and have had consistently good results for what I do (mostly 70s/80s style prog and electronic combined). The major thing swaying me towards SD3 is the extra room mics because I record and mix exclusively in third order Ambisonic format now.

I'll be following this topic with interest.
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Old 09-22-2018, 10:39 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
Wondering if I actually have time & "volonte" (don`t know english equivalent of this) to re-learn BFD.
"Will" according to this...
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Old 09-22-2018, 12:09 PM   #8
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I have both and prefer SD3 by a large margin.
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Old 09-22-2018, 04:28 PM   #9
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Thank you all for your thoughts.

I've been checking out lots of reviews and vids on both and i'm feeling
even more like BFD might suit me better.
I very rarely use any of the built in grooves and if i do i usually change them to suit what i need, ( that's why this quote from Jenifer is very interesting )

Quote:
Originally Posted by endorka View Post
It has fabulous drum and groove oriented features such as a drum rudiment library and kit piece / articulation oriented grid, but is very different from working in the standard MIDI editor.
I'm feeling the more raw sounds of BFD would fit what i do better as well and all the bells and whistles that SD3 has i just don't think i'd use, as i said i havn't used EZdrummer 2 on anything I've done to date.

In saying this i still haven't made up my mind totally, i have quite a few toontrack libs and i believe toontrack are dropping support for SD2 soon, not that will be a problem as SD2 is very stable as is.

Aghh, i wish money wasn't a problem i'd just get both , but.....

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Old 09-22-2018, 11:14 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viscofisy View Post
I

Then recently someone started a thread here asking for the opinions "one-year-on" of those who bought SD3 - and it was met with a less than enthusiastic response, imo.

Which I was a bit surprised at, considering the fanfare and attention SD3 received only a year ago on its release.

_
I upgraded to SD3 one year ago and still think it was "the music software of the year". I like the way it can find matching loops for me based on another loop or tapping the kit parts. The editing possibilities, the mixer etc are all great ... As for sounds I cannot compare with BFD3 that I have never heard, I originally started out with the very first BFD and then moved to TT. There is, however, a lot of kits and add-ons to choose from with SD3, so I believe some of it must be good.
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Old 09-23-2018, 02:51 AM   #11
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Quote:
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"Will" according to this...
Yeah - also "desire" comes into it & "compulsion".

Lots of words where there isnt an exact equicvalent in "the other" language.

Metier for instance. tons of crude near approximations but nothing that really nails it. Frustrating. The better I get at French the more of these sorts of words I find in BOTH languages that are really hard to translate exactly.

Sorry for the digression.
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Old 09-23-2018, 12:55 PM   #12
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I have SD2, BFD3 and a few Abbey road kits etc
I liked SD2 for my rock for a while but found the lack of grooves compared to BFD2 at that time a bit of a pain as SD2 cost so much I thought it should supply more grooves.
After purchasing BFD3 (a toss up purchase between BFD3 and SD3) I find I use BFD3 %90 of the time.
I have never used SD3 so can not coment the purchase price demands I could only purchase one or the other.

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Old 09-23-2018, 03:00 PM   #13
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I purchased the Eco upgrade to BD3 because at the price it seems like great deal.

I might get an upgrade from SD2 to SD3 at some point but from what I've heard I'm still not sure if the hits go hard enough and the massive storage puts me off a bit.
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Old 09-23-2018, 03:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
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the massive storage puts me off a bit.
You can download the whole package in smaller chunks and my understanding is that a significant portion of the data is room mics. So, unless you specifically want the surround capabilities as mentioned up-thread, you could forego d/loading the room mics and just use reverb to achieve comparable sounds.
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Old 09-23-2018, 04:49 PM   #15
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I own both, plus some expansions.

I use both of them in the context of sample replacement (live drums then audio->midi, or using SD3's tracker), electronic drums and manual programming.

I feel like SD3 is far superior in terms of sound, but I find BFD3 easier to use.

I don't think that any expansion I've heard comes remotely close to the nuance and flexibility you have with SD3. SD3 is simply just more capable of sounding like a real drummer playing a real drum kit, if you put in the effort to utilize those subtleties.

SD3's MIDI packs are also quite nice as starting points, and the "Tracker" (sample replacement function) is brilliant.
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:13 PM   #16
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As an owner of both good to hear your feelings Randolph

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Old 09-24-2018, 01:43 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratman View Post
I purchased the Eco upgrade to BD3 because at the price it seems like great deal.

I might get an upgrade from SD2 to SD3 at some point but from what I've heard I'm still not sure if the hits go hard enough and the massive storage puts me off a bit.
Actually, SD3 plus the basic (but huge in range) sound library is "only" 41gb. I have everything TT make for SD3 installed on a second ssd on my laptop and even with all the extra SDX libraries, it fits in well under 500gb.
Yes I know that is huge, but
1. I am a beta tester, so I have to have all of them and
2. I rather doubt any regular user would ever get even close to buying ALL the SDxs.

FWIW the older SDXs run between 10 and 25gb each, those built specifically to take advantage of all the possibilities in SD3 are typically 30-35gb.

Still wondering about BFD3 - I will have to see what their files run to.

Although frankly disk space is so cheap nowadays....
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Old 10-01-2018, 03:21 AM   #18
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I've been using BFD3 over the last few days for a song, and in light of this thread thought I'd try a bit harder to get fluent with the groove editor.

One of the things that really did my head in when using it was the inability to use Reaper's transport controls when BFD3 has focus. So trying out a modification when using the "track" function of the groove editor meant clicking on the Reaper window, pressing space bar or what have you, listening, then clicking back to BFD3's window to continue editing. Very hard to get into a groove doing this.

Navigating to different parts of the song was also awkward to the same reason.

I know there are ways to stop BFD3 eating keyboard commands and pass them through to Reaper, but when I tried it there were always trade offs that had other irritations.

However, since then I've bought a Faderport with transport controls, assignable buttons etc. These work regardless of keyboard & mouse focus, so totally function when BFD3 is in focus. I can play / stop / pause / fast forward / rewind at will, and have buttons assigned to jump forward and backward to the next marker or region in the song. Useful to jumping to the next or previous section. Also buttons assigned to go to the next or previous bar.

It's an absolute godsend, and consequently programming the drums for this song has been much quicker, easier, and the results are more pleasing.

Perhaps I've been a bit slow on the uptake on getting this facility going, but just thought I'd mention it to keep the thread up to date.

I also believe that Reaper has recently improved support for keyboard commands when plugins have focus, so it might be possible to improve this type of thing without an external controller. I haven't tried it yet though.

As an aside, the song is an acoustic number, and I used the Alan Parsons 70's vintage kit for BFD. Sounded totally right for the tune, the songwriter loves it!

Cheers,
Jennifer
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Old 10-01-2018, 04:16 AM   #19
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As a Program, I don't find BFD3 to be any better than BFD2,
they're basically the same program..


BFD3 Pros:
New Sounds, and expanded/improved? FX
Uses FLAC compressed samples (you can compress BFD2 libs too)
Simplifyed channel routing (some elements use less channels..)

Cons:
I found the GUI to be harder to see/use, not as handy
Since the routing is different, BFD2 presets cannot be Perfectly reproduced

And that was a dealbreaker for me..
I prefeer to stick to BFD2 and some of the expansions for now.


Namely "Yamaha Custom Maple", "Modern Retro" and Zildjian Vaults are the best imo..
Jazz Maple, Jazz&Funk, Signature Snares, EpiKDrumS "Elton John" and "Nick Mason Kit" are good too.

There's some other Great expansions, while others are more of a hit and miss;
some elements might be good, some others just passable.


So all in all, I find with BFD2 and AddictiveDrums 2,
I can cover all the needs in this department for now.

I'm using them for Composing/Producing tho,
if you're a V-Drummer your experience or needs/priorityes might be different.

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Old 10-01-2018, 09:12 AM   #20
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I'm a long time user of Toontrack stuff and this thread has me curious about BFD 3. Thing is, their website doesn't seem to tell you much about what components are included. Sure, there's a lot, but I want to know what specifically is in there and it doesn't seem like they want to tell you.
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Old 10-19-2018, 01:39 AM   #21
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Well, i finally made a decision and went with
BFD3.
Not because i thought it was better than SD3
but because it is different, i have SD2, EZD2 and a whole bunch
of SDX & EZX's so its going to be good to have some sounds
that are totally different.
I'll might post back after i've had some time to get my head around
it and share my thoughts, but it could be a while

Thanks to everyone
Cheers
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Old 10-19-2018, 04:41 AM   #22
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In BFD3 I presume the basic premix of all the drum kits is according to where the drums are placed in the song mix. That sometimes throws me off about it.the loudness varies from kit to kit. This I did not feel in the addictive drums ( I don't own addictive drums but I demoed it on a friend's workstation) unless I am missing out on some setting here .
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Old 10-19-2018, 05:21 AM   #23
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In BFD3 I presume the basic premix of all the drum kits is according to where the drums are placed in the song mix. That sometimes throws me off about it.the soundness varies from kit to kit. This I did not feel in the addictive drums ( I don't own addictive drums but I demoed it on a friend's workstation) unless I am missing out on some setting here .
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Old 10-19-2018, 07:37 AM   #24
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dbl post sorry
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:24 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolffman View Post
Well, i finally made a decision and went with
BFD3.
You've made a wise choice. IMO BFD 3 is the most natural-sounding virtual drummer out there.
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Old 10-19-2018, 11:06 AM   #26
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If you wish to get a really nice guy who will help your song groove
At a realistic normal persons cost get this guy
https://www.defmediagroup.com/bio Darrell Nutt
Top stuff recommend him, treat yourself when you have worked your song.

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Old 10-19-2018, 03:12 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolffman View Post
Well, i finally made a decision and went with
BFD3.
In my opinion you made a good choice. I have been using BFD since BFD was, and of course now on BFD3. I have almost all expansions known to man for it (apart from marching band and Japanese Percussion)both from FXpansion and various 3rd parties. I also own EZd2, SD2 and SD3 with a truck load of expansions, never really use the Toontrack stuff, messed around with the Tap and find in EZD2 way back until the novelty wore off, not something I would use really.

SD3 is really nice to look at, nice GUI and features, but some of those features are of no use to me, Tap to Find, Tracker etc. The grove editor has some nice features etc, but I can do everything I want with BFD3, and most importantly of all, IMO it just sounds way better, and more realistic and/or natural.

I'm going to sell my Toontrack stuff, I've realized BFD is where it's at, I guess I always knew that, and I never use the TT stuff, apart from a few weeks intensive use when SD3 was first released I really haven't touched it since then. So if anyone wants SD3 and doesn't have an upgrade path (even if you do) ***SOLD***.

Last edited by jinotsuh; 10-22-2018 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 10-19-2018, 03:47 PM   #28
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I just sold three pedals this weekend and have some funds in my account.

I like to tinker with settings and can edit midi loops to make them fit my creations. And in my head I've got the sound of my ideal kit as I stood next to my favourite drummer for over ten years.

My head says BFD3...
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Old 10-19-2018, 03:59 PM   #29
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Are you guys talking about Storm Drum 3 by East West? That's fantastic (and completely different from SD2, it's essentially Mickey Hart's huge drum collection sampled)
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Old 10-19-2018, 04:08 PM   #30
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Not in my case at least, SD3 = Superior Drummer 3 by Toontrack, and SD2 . . . well you get it
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Old 10-19-2018, 05:09 PM   #31
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Neither.. Steven Slate :up:
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Old 10-20-2018, 02:21 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jinotsuh View Post
and of course now on BFD3. I have almost all expansions known to man for it
Can you recommend a good BFD expansion for use in americana & acoustic style
music, one that has a good brush kit as well ?

Cheers
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Old 10-20-2018, 02:27 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro Audio Enthusiast View Post
IMO BFD 3 is the most natural-sounding virtual drummer out there.
This was a contributing factor to my decision as well, i haven't any time with it yet but a lot of the videos i watched had a very natural sound.
I'm looking forward to getting into it as soon as time permits.

Cheers
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Old 10-20-2018, 03:09 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolffman View Post
Can you recommend a good BFD expansion for use in americana & acoustic style
music, one that has a good brush kit as well ?

Cheers
https://www.fxpansion.com/products/b...bfdhorsepower/

or perhaps

https://www.fxpansion.com/products/b...tuallyerskine/

There is a lot more, a lot of kits with brushes throughout. For something a little cheaper, but by no means 'cheap', checkout if any of the Drumdrops packs appeal to you.

https://www.drumdrops.com/
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Old 10-21-2018, 09:01 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jinotsuh View Post
https://www.fxpansion.com/products/b...bfdhorsepower/

or perhaps

https://www.fxpansion.com/products/b...tuallyerskine/

There is a lot more, a lot of kits with brushes throughout. For something a little cheaper, but by no means 'cheap', checkout if any of the Drumdrops packs appeal to you.

https://www.drumdrops.com/
Thanks for these, I'll check em out.

Although, i've just been messing with the brush drums in the
stock sample lib and they are sounding pretty bloody good to me

Just compared them to the brush kits in Nashville EZX and custom & Vintage
SDX and they sound streets ahead of the nashville still messing with the C&V
haven't tried the brushes in the standard SD2 lib but i don't think i,ve ever used those in a track anyway.

Stoked withe BFD3 so far, the stand alone had a meltdown and crashed on me but its been solid as a plugin in reaper so far, touch wood.

Cheers
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Old 10-21-2018, 09:03 PM   #36
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Anyone have or know where to find some midi note name files for BFD3 ?

Cheers
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Old 12-30-2018, 02:51 AM   #37
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Just a quick reminder that there's only a couple of days left for the Toontrack discount for upgrading from SD2 to SD3. I purchased the upgrade a couple of days ago but haven't installed it yet.
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Old 12-30-2018, 04:31 AM   #38
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Quote:
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Just a quick reminder that there's only a couple of days left for the Toontrack discount for upgrading from SD2 to SD3. I purchased the upgrade a couple of days ago but haven't installed it yet.
Thanks for the reminder Dave but.

I've finally decided i'm not going to upgrade to SD3, although its been hard, Toontrack keep sending me emails to upgrade and i think to myself i probably should get the upgrade at 1/2 price and then i think thats still almost $300 aussie dollars, but it looks soooooo good ..............
You get the drift and to be honest i haven,t even used SD2 or EZD2 since i got BFD3, plus, i've decided to try out the drums i got in Komplete 8 years ago which i've never tried out.
Waaaay too many drums to use with what i already have let alone getting another VSTi.

Cheers
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Old 12-30-2018, 04:39 AM   #39
Dannii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolffman View Post
Thanks for the reminder Dave but.

I've finally decided i'm not going to upgrade to SD3, although its been hard, Toontrack keep sending me emails to upgrade and i think to myself i probably should get the upgrade at 1/2 price and then i think thats still almost $300 aussie dollars, but it looks soooooo good ..............
You get the drift and to be honest i haven,t even used SD2 or EZD2 since i got BFD3, plus, i've decided to try out the drums i got in Komplete 8 years ago which i've never tried out.
Waaaay too many drums to use with what i already have let alone getting another VSTi.

Cheers
I totally get where you are coming from. I guess my reminder here was more for everyone reading and was prompted by my tendency to forget such things!!
The two primary reasons I have gone for the upgrade are that SD2 has worked flawlessly with my Roland kit for around ten years and now that I'm recording and mixing pretty much exclusively in Ambisonic format these days, the huge array of surround mics used for the SD3 factory library made it very compelling for me.
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Old 12-30-2018, 11:34 AM   #40
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FWIW you are going to find SD3 works even better with an e-kit especially once you use all the various controls & settings included for a vast number of different e-kits. I was about to buy a Roland VH11 or 12 before SD3 came out but HiHat control is so much better now I decided against it.

I also decided against the BFD upgrade after revisiting Eco.
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