Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER Bug Reports

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-14-2021, 05:53 AM   #1
mccrabney
Human being with feelings
 
mccrabney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: [REDACTED]
Posts: 3,059
Default AI: if multipl env points exist at AI endpoint, envelope ignores last points

this bug presents itself when you're making simple LFO patterns using AI and duplicating them across the project.

here, i have 2 AIs that contain the same points. the first track's AI, however, is extended a bit longer than the 2nd AI.

since all of the envelope points in the AI are inside the AI bounds, (visibly so), the user would expect both of these AI to behave in the same way.

however, they do not - in the 2nd AI, the last point gets truncated and is never sent to the pan envelope. watch the resulting audio below: the reasynth audio remains panned hard to one channel, despite the AI ending with a visible and editable envelope point.

__________________
** the bugs that bite the hardest - one crustacean's compilation.
my repo - [action-based razor edit control]
automation "return speed" is unwanted envelope modification

Last edited by mccrabney; 05-14-2021 at 07:03 AM.
mccrabney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2021, 06:03 AM   #2
mccrabney
Human being with feelings
 
mccrabney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: [REDACTED]
Posts: 3,059
Default

note that gluing behaves as expected here: that sneaky point that's ignored by playback gets "heard" by the glue:



the workflow issue here is that users must either A, force their AI to be longer than they need to be, or B, zoom in on their AI in order to prevent 2 points from existing on the same AI endpoint. note, if we adjust the LFO so that the lowest envelope point exists even a tick before the final "return to 0" envelope point, the AI behaves as expected:



this is a workaround, but it's pretty inconvenient and twitchy.
__________________
** the bugs that bite the hardest - one crustacean's compilation.
my repo - [action-based razor edit control]
automation "return speed" is unwanted envelope modification
mccrabney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2021, 06:05 AM   #3
mccrabney
Human being with feelings
 
mccrabney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: [REDACTED]
Posts: 3,059
Default

note too that 2 points seem to be able to exist at the AI start, no problem - despite the point NOT being visible here.

__________________
** the bugs that bite the hardest - one crustacean's compilation.
my repo - [action-based razor edit control]
automation "return speed" is unwanted envelope modification
mccrabney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2021, 06:54 AM   #4
mccrabney
Human being with feelings
 
mccrabney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: [REDACTED]
Posts: 3,059
Default

this bug report came about as i grab snatches of AI by using Razor Edits.

watch the pan display readout on the left. here, i duplicate a razor edit selection of a pan envelope. note that in the top track, at the edit cursor, the track pan reads 99%L. that's great, that's expected - it's where the envelope point is, visibly.

now, look at the bottom track - 99%R, despite all points having been moved/copied.



i understand that this is a tricky issue, because no matter what you're going to have either AI start/endpoints existing at the same moment, and you're going to have multiple envelope points existing at the same moment. i also know that fixing this bug will potentially change old projects for people, which is dangerous - but arguably less dangerous than having envelopes indicate one result but produce another.
__________________
** the bugs that bite the hardest - one crustacean's compilation.
my repo - [action-based razor edit control]
automation "return speed" is unwanted envelope modification

Last edited by mccrabney; 05-14-2021 at 08:01 AM.
mccrabney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2021, 01:00 PM   #5
mccrabney
Human being with feelings
 
mccrabney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: [REDACTED]
Posts: 3,059
Default

here's another view of this - in this case, i've enabled the background envelope and attached it to the edges of my AI.



here, i create an AI with a start and endpoint at the AI bounds.
i then create a ramp, placing an envelope point at the end of the AI.
this new point seems to be interpreted as the "last" AI point, and snaps the background envelope down.
however, if you extend the AI, the new 0% end point slips behind the previous 100% end point, and the background envelope snaps back up to 100%.

at the end of the gif, i return the AI to its original size and then move this lost envelope point around, to no effect. if this is indeed the "last" envelope point, as extending the AI would suggest, then the expected behavior would be that this endpoint would control the attached background envelope/chase value.

am i underthinking it, or could a fix to this be that simple? let the last envelope point in the AI be what has the final word?
__________________
** the bugs that bite the hardest - one crustacean's compilation.
my repo - [action-based razor edit control]
automation "return speed" is unwanted envelope modification
mccrabney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2021, 03:57 AM   #6
mccrabney
Human being with feelings
 
mccrabney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: [REDACTED]
Posts: 3,059
Default

bump.

we cannot trust the AI to use the last envelope point value to inform the parameter, and this is a problem. we're not yet truncating the envelope point -- it's visible -- but its value gets ignored in favor of the 2nd to last envelope point in AI bounds.

__________________
** the bugs that bite the hardest - one crustacean's compilation.
my repo - [action-based razor edit control]
automation "return speed" is unwanted envelope modification

Last edited by mccrabney; 06-15-2021 at 04:38 AM.
mccrabney is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.